Why good men go to hell?

[R. Hartono]

We cannot enter heaven by claiming that we are good men because of some charity. 

Its the same as thief trying to enterba house.

[Your closest friendnt]

5 hours ago, David1701 said:

So, out of your own mouth, you admit that you think that you are saved because you are good.  Do you not realise that this is an entirely anti-Christian teaching?  You are giving the glory for your salvation to yourself, instead of to the Lord.

1 Cor. 1:25-31 (EMTV)

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
  26 For you see your calling, brothers, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many powerful, not many noble, are called.
  27 But God chose the foolish things of the world in order that He might humiliate the wise, and God chose the weak things of the world in order that He might humiliate the mighty.
  28 And the lowly things of the world, and the despised things God has chosen, and the things which are not, in order that He might nullify the things that are,
  29 so that no man may boast before God.
  30 But from Him you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption;
  31 that, as it is written, "HE THAT BOASTS, LET HIM BOAST IN THE LORD."

In his last paragraph brother Frits said: 

(5 hours ago, David1701 said: it does not belong in the header, sorry, I tried to erase it , and I cannot. I mix up something. It supposed to say "Frits said: 

5 hours ago, David1701 said:

 

Frits in his post said:

after Pentecost, and also all the millions of people who later in history converted to the Lord Jesus and accepted Him as God and Savior, are included.  
That's why I too am saved.
Hallelujah, praise the Lord Jesus!

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

9 hours ago, Frits said:

David,

and also all the millions of people who later in history converted to the Lord Jesus and accepted Him as God and Savior, are included.  
That's why I too am saved.
Hallelujah, praise the Lord Jesus!

 

8 hours ago, David1701 said:

So, out of your own mouth, you admit that you think that you are saved because you are good. You are giving the glory for your salvation to yourself, instead of to the Lord.

 

Frits in his post above is giving an account millions of people after Penticost are saved.

Because they converted to the Lord jesus and accepted him as God and Savior. 

And he states emphatically: 

That's why I too. am saved.

And he is praising the Lord Jesus.  

This is more than enough, I accept that he is Saved, he does not need to do anything else. 

What we discuss are not Salvation issues.  

We can discuss them, without making them Salvation issues, I suppose so. 

The statement "converted to Jesus", it must include who believed that Jesus Christ died for the forgiveness of our sins. 

Because that's how anyone is converted to Jesus Christ because he believes that Jesus died on the Cross to pay for our sins, our sins were upon him, that's how he can forgive us, because he pay the price for our sins, he was punished for our sins. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Blood Bought 1953]

Hell will be chock- full of “ good” men.....” moral” men.....the “ Good Neighbor Sam” Type......

What a man might see in another man as “ good”, God sees as one that is “ DEAD ....Dead in Trespasses and Sins” 

“ Good” ain’t gonna get you nowhere . “Ye are to be PERFECT, even as your Father in Heaven is Perfect” . THAT is the Standard and you can’t keep it .....

Nobody is even “ close” to being “ perfect”, but if you you Trust Jesus to Save you , He will “ Consider “ you as being perfect .... because Of The Cross , if you are a Believer, Jesus gets your sins and you get HIS Perfection....This could all be called “ Christianity 101”

 

[Frits]

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

This is how it was till the death of Jesus Christ .

Abraham and his descendants in righteousness were waiting for the coming of the Life Giver Jesus Christ and they  knew that he will come to them right after his death, to  take them out from there to be together with him in his Heavenly Inheritance. 

Thank Brother Ycf for quoting Psalm 16. The rest: "I have scripture reference in a little while.", if you could find any more Bible passages that would be nice. You would do us a favor with that. But if not, Ps.16 is enough, thank you.
When the apostle Peter spoke to his people on Pentecost, he indicated in Acts 2:31 that David (a prophet) wrote this Psalm with a view to the Lord Jesus.
So the Lord Jesus was not forsaken by God the Father when He entered Hades after dying!
Hades is a condition of the spirits of the deceased, rather than a place or location.
The condition in Hades was a torment for the unbelieving rich man! While Abraham's condition was comfort, rightly called by you "the Paradise of Abraham." Lazarus also found comfort in Paradise with Abraham after he died. (Lk.16: 25) And the murderer on the cross also became a righteous person after that one prayer to the Lord Jesus, and therefore came into Paradise.
All the good people of the Old Testament came into this comforting Paradise situation after they died, because they were righteous believers. (Please read Mt.22:32)

So there is a great gulf running through Hades! (v26) On the one hand, the unbelievers, the troublemakers, the deniers, the loveless, the sinners.  And on the other, the loving, the peaceable, the helpers, the merciful, the good people.
After dying, the born-again Christian does not come into Hades, but he/she immediately takes up residence with the Lord Jesus.
There with the Lord Jesus are now all the righteous ones from OT, I mentioned earlier, who were with Abraham at the time of the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus. (see Lk.13:28)
The situation with the Lord Jesus is therefore much more glorious than it already was with Father Abraham, after all, the Lord Jesus gives that water of life himself. He is the Tree of Life that stands in the Center of the Paradise of God. (Rev.21: 6)

God will bless you bro.

[Logostician]

It is the height of presumptuousness (and denial) for any man to judge himself or another man to be "good".  God is the living embodiment, and standard of good.  Jesus became flesh primarily to die for our sins, but also to show us what a good man truly is.  He is the second Adam, the embodiment of what man fully united with God should be.  The standard that Jesus set has never been acheived by any other man in the entire history of mankind.  Only Jesus was "good".  But through his salvation, he gives his goodness to us.  It is the goodness of the Son of God himself.  We don't earn it.  It is a gift from God.  All efforts to be good, or self proclaimed attainment of goodness without God, are delusional, no less than proclaiming we are as powerful as God.

Mat 10:17

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Only God is inherently good.

Isa 64:6

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

All of the things men call righteousness or goodness fall so far below God's goodness that they are filthy rags by comparison.

Jno 18:38

Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

Pilate unwittingly makes a very true statement about truth.  Truth for most men is whatever they want it to be.  If men can't be truthful, how can they be truthful about their own goodness or the goodness of anyone else.  Only Jesus is qualified to judge these things.  He is the way, the TRUTH, and the life.  He is the standard of goodness.  And no man attains or earns his goodness except as a free gift of salvation from the Son of God. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Frits]

6 hours ago, Frits said:

Thank Brother Ycf for quoting Psalm 16. The rest: "I have scripture reference in a little while.", if you could find any more Bible passages that would be nice. You would do us a favor with that. But if not, Ps.16 is enough, thank you.
When the apostle Peter spoke to his people on Pentecost, he indicated in Acts 2:31 that David (a prophet) wrote this Psalm with a view to the Lord Jesus.
So the Lord Jesus was not forsaken by God the Father when He entered Hades after dying!
Hades is a condition of the spirits of the deceased, rather than a place or location.
The condition in Hades was a torment for the unbelieving rich man! While Abraham's condition was comfort, rightly called by you "the Paradise of Abraham." Lazarus also found comfort in Paradise with Abraham after he died. (Lk.16: 25) And the murderer on the cross also became a righteous person after that one prayer to the Lord Jesus, and therefore came into Paradise.
All the good people of the Old Testament came into this comforting Paradise situation after they died, because they were righteous believers. (Please read Mt.22:32)

So there is a great gulf running through Hades! (v26) On the one hand, the unbelievers, the troublemakers, the deniers, the loveless, the sinners.  And on the other, the loving, the peaceable, the helpers, the merciful, the good people.
After dying, the born-again Christian does not come into Hades, but he/she immediately takes up residence with the Lord Jesus.
There with the Lord Jesus are now all the righteous ones from OT, I mentioned earlier, who were with Abraham at the time of the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus. (see Lk.13:28)
The situation with the Lord Jesus is therefore much more glorious than it already was with Father Abraham, after all, the Lord Jesus gives that water of life himself. He is the Tree of Life that stands in the Center of the Paradise of God. (Rev.21: 6)

God will bless you bro.

Brother @Your closest friendnt,

I'm glad you liked my post, thank you for your rating.

God bless.

[Frits]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

Good people are saved and those who are not good are not saved?

Yes, simple isn't it? Those who are good will inherit the Kingdom of God. These by the way are without exception all righteous people, like the people I mentioned you. (Mt.25: 34,37) 
All wicked people, the unbelievers, the cursed, go to the eternal fire. (v41)

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

Saved by grace. 
Not saved by works. 
Not saved by being good. 

It is not based on anything you, I, Abel, Enoch, Abe or anyone else did. It is a gift, not a wage. 

Sorry bro, but are you conferencing yourself right now?
I don't remember anyone saying in this op that salvation by God is because of works or wage. Is it because otherwise everyone will quickly see that your claim that Abel, Enoch, Abraham and Moses are all gross sinners, is completely against the Bible!
You thereby denie God's decision and method!  As a brother I advise you to stop with that.
In the meantime, I will pray for you.

 

God bless.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Frits

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

Good people are saved and those who are not good are not saved? 

Ephesians 2:1-10
"And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,  in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.  Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.  But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,  even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),  and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,  so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.  For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;  not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.  For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."

Saved by grace. 
Not saved by works. 
Not saved by being good. 

It is not based on anything you, I, Abel, Enoch, Abe or anyone else did. It is a gift, not a wage. 

Romans 4:1-8
"What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh?  For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.  For what does the Scripture say? 'Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.' Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.  And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,  just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:  'Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered;  blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.'” 

All those you've ever mentioned were sinners; sinners in need of salvation that apart from God's grace they never would have received. Their lot was destruction apart from Christ. What your position logically says is that without this grace to save these good people would go to hell and they'd go to hell because the wages of sin is death despite the premise they were otherwise good people. 

 

 

No one can dispute the Gospel message of Paul, even though many will try and have tried in the past, but the past cannot go beyond Paul first starting preaching the Gospel...

Paul started preaching his glorious Gospel after he received his revelations from Jesus Christ. 

Paul's Gospel to Gentiles cannot be said that he is describing the Jews who are born into a strict moral and charitable culture.

Paul with his strong words he is addressing the Gentiles and their lifestyles, but not all Gentiles fit within those groups. 

Gentiles is not synonymous to what Paul describes, they are not wild swine. 

Even though it was permissible by their culture and the particular groups who allowed this kind of behavior.  Not all Gentiles belong to that group of free radical behavior. 

It is just like today and not only in our society, in any other society, non Christian societies, we can go and live and be safe in their unchristian societies.  They are not believers but that does not make them beasts.

Definitely Paul did not include the Jews and the Gentiles who love righteousness and charity. 

But those who identify with Paul's descriptions are invited to believe, they are not excluded from God in the way they were excluded before in the Jewish culture. Here Paul offered something to people apart from the Law. 

Jesus did not made the way to Heaven through the Tabernacle to the most Holy Place. 

There is nothing beyond the Most Holy Place, everything stopped at the Most Holy Place.

Jesus made the way for man to God, by a new way out side the Temple. Jesus circumvent the Temple. Jesus Christ died outside the Temple. 

He open the way to God through his death on the Cross. 

So no one went to God in this way before Jesus Christ being the first one. 

Everyone else had to wait for Him and in Him.

The way to God it was not open till the death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 

What about Abel? This is one of the most profound inquiries. And then Noah and then Abraham as a Patriarch of the people of God.  And the Gentiles who were not excluded but included of the Gospel Jesus Christ when it was preached to them in the place of the dead, those three days from the death of Jesus Christ to his resurrection.

The Gospel was preached to Abraham first and everyone in his Bossom and then to the rest of the world who had died before Jesus Christ. 

So everyone will hear the Gospel and be judged according to his believing or according to his refusing to believe.  

They had a window of about three days to believe, we have the window of our lifetime to believe. 

Something to discuss and why is it something not made know to us?

Ephesians 4:8 

  8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

That's how those who had died before Jesus Christ went to Heaven, they followed Jesus Christ. 

[Starise]

Am I missing something? This shouldn't be this complicated should it?

There aren't levels of perfect. There is only perfect. There is only one who is perfect. It isn't any of us. 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Starise