JohnD Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 910 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,667 Content Per Day: 2.01 Reputation: 5,844 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2021 I'm guessing it's because we judge others by puny human standards. If someone is nice or compassionate or willing to lay down their life for others... like our military and police and EMTs and firefighters do every shift... we presume they are good. The Bible, the Word of God the creator of mankind says we are not good. And that the minimum standard for being good is perfectly keeping God's perfect Law... which no human other than the Lord Jesus could keep. So how is it we keep asking how God can allow bad things to happen to "good" people or how God can send "good" people to hell? John 3:18 states humans are predestined for hell for unbelief in Jesus. This is the result of human sin. And the modification of John 3:17. Otherwise all sinners would go straight to hell. Jesus came to save hell-destined sinners. If they die in that unbelief or reject that one and only way to be saved... Question: Those who we deem "good," have they ever committed a sin any sin? Then they are not good. We attempt to dumb down the perfect Law standard but it makes no difference. God is the arbiter of good and evil and he gave us his Word to show it to mankind (but with the one way out of hell which he paid dearly for us to even have the choice). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.42 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Its simple really. A matter of context. There is the 'relative' good that man is capable of 'manward' and then there is 'good' from God's perspective and good 'Godward'. God recognizes 'good' manward, but it isn't what is required to satisfy His holiness and thus to satisfy 'Redemption'. This all points to God's great Solution. The Cross, Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus Christ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,693 Content Per Day: 8.03 Reputation: 21,758 Days Won: 77 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 9, 2021 It is one of the issues I have with the Calvinist total inability... as after the fall and man is dead in sin God says: Gen 3:22 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: KJV not only did man have the ability to know good but also to choose it... however choosing good could not rectify the bad he had already chosen and become.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.57 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2021 Because we are not wolves in sheeps clothing, WE are the sheep. SOOO we SEE everyone else as we see ourselves. wanting and able to be redeemed, AND as such, we walk around thinking "he doesn't really mean that or that is because of or if only this would have happened" and all the other excuses GOOD people give for the bad, and the bad just love. Some times God MUST allow us to get punched in the nose, to get us to open up our eyes. HE DID ME. But I was stubborn, apparently when God said there is good and evil, wheat and tares, sheep and wolves, good fig and bad figs and all the 1000 other ways He warned me, I just didn't WANT to believe it. Excuse after excuse, chance after chance. SO, God saw the first punch didn't do it so allowed the second one to come quickly. AND THEN I BELIEVED. Hurt like hell. My perceptions CHANGED. I began to SEE for the first time ever. BUT I took it as the lesson I needed to know, thanked Him, repented and asked for forgiveness for my stubbornness. As much as it hurt my 'flesh' life, what it has done to the understanding of His word is nothing short of miraculous. Lots of truth has opened. I can discern good from evil. (OK, still not very good at it but getting better quickly. Something we need to be good at especially in the days to come. If you don't see wolves in the too good to be trues...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted January 9, 2021 3 hours ago, JohnD said: I'm guessing it's because we judge others by puny human standards. If someone is nice or compassionate or willing to lay down their life for others... like our military and police and EMTs and firefighters do every shift... we presume they are good. The Bible, the Word of God the creator of mankind says we are not good. And that the minimum standard for being good is perfectly keeping God's perfect Law... which no human other than the Lord Jesus could keep. So how is it we keep asking how God can allow bad things to happen to "good" people or how God can send "good" people to hell? John 3:18 states humans are predestined for hell for unbelief in Jesus. This is the result of human sin. And the modification of John 3:17. Otherwise all sinners would go straight to hell. Jesus came to save hell-destined sinners. If they die in that unbelief or reject that one and only way to be saved... Question: Those who we deem "good," have they ever committed a sin any sin? Then they are not good. We attempt to dumb down the perfect Law standard but it makes no difference. God is the arbiter of good and evil and he gave us his Word to show it to mankind (but with the one way out of hell which he paid dearly for us to even have the choice). And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” Mark 10:18 RSV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlade Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,259 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 1,156 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1961 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Good...context. Christ said you being evil know how to give good gifts to your Children. And going back to the start to say man is or knows good is unwise. Well they were kicked out of the garden and Cain killed Able... everything after Adam Eve sinned started to die. Then before the flood "The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time." So lol what happen to good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 10, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 910 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,667 Content Per Day: 2.01 Reputation: 5,844 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 7 hours ago, johnthebaptist said: And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” Mark 10:18 RSV He was asserting their reasoning processes to realize he (Jesus) was and is in fact God incarnate. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted January 11, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 11, 2021 On 1/9/2021 at 11:25 PM, JohnD said: He was asserting their reasoning processes to realize he (Jesus) was and is in fact God incarnate. I struggled for a bit in my twenties to believe that Jesus was God. This verse helped me along with the verse “bring me back into the glory WE shared before the world was.” As far as why we believe people are good- we look at their fruit. When good/fruitful/Bible-believing people who are the salt and light if this earth are taken from us, out of grief, we question God. But I think we all know that us mortals are not “good” according to God’s standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwalker Posted January 11, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 1,753 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/09/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 11, 2021 The bible is very clear that none of us are "good" Romans 3: 10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristen Posted January 11, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,394 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,367 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 11, 2021 Hi John, you asked, “Why do we keep assuming people are good?” I think it depends on who the “we” is in your question. - I'd suggest that most of the Christians who are engaged with their Christianity understand that no one is “good” in terms of God's Holy standard of righteousness – apart from the sacrifice of Christ. - If a Christian refers to someone as a “good” person, they probably mean a wretched sinner who has received the pardon of God through faith in Christ – and are manifesting the fruits of repentance (i.e. the sincere goodness, kindness and love which are fruits of the Holy Spirit). - If a non-Christian refers to someone as a “good” person, they likely mean that the person has not killed anyone yet (or some equivalent standard). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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