Obeying the higher authority

[The_Patriot21]

This was written by a friend of mine and a local pastor...very well written and thought provoking considering the times.

 

Some people think that Christians should never speak or act out against Gov't authority, citing passages like Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:11-17. Many of these same people think it was wrong for Americans to rebel against King George in the Revolutionary War. Was George Washington a rebel against God's word? Is our nation founded upon rebellion to the Bible? Some Christians think so, but let's actually consider the rest of the story about disobeying unlawful authority in the Bible.

Was John the Baptist out of line when he ridiculed and condemned King Herod for violating the law with his adulterous relationship? Yeah, Herod was the king, but does that mean he could do whatever he wanted? What was John the Baptist like? Was he a delicate and soft spoken man, dressed gorgeously appareled in the king's courts (Luke 7:24-26)? Or was he a rough looking character with course sandpaper for words (Matt. 3:7)? Or what of the meek and mild Jesus? Did Jesus himself use lightness or delicate phrases when the Temple was overrun by those who didn't honor God's authority (John 2:13-17; Matt. 21:12)? Did he commit destruction of property and assault when he turned over tables and chased people around with a whip he made? Do you think you're better than Christ in how you would have handled that? What would you had thought if you stumbled upon that scene with your own eyes and ears? Or how about the religious leaders of Jesus day? How did Jesus address those religious leaders in authority in Matthew 23? Do you think it was loving for him to openly call them names and to castigate these leaders to their face, only after confronting them repeatedly before but to no avail? What would you think of Jesus had you been there in person to see this? Would you think Jesus was wrong and out of line? Does it conflict with how you feel Jesus should have acted? How do you feel about Jesus when he said similar things with the religious leaders on another occasion, even as an invited guest at a Pharisee's house no less (Luke 11:37-54)?! Be careful lest you judge the Judge of all things. 

Were the apostles wrong in openly violating the religious leaders commands to not speak of Jesus in the Temple? What was their response in Acts 5:28-33? Or what about the 3 Hebrew rebels that violated the King's commandment in Daniel 3? Did God vindicate their rebellion to an unlawful authority by seeing them through the fiery furnace? Nevermind the coarse and crude language God had Ezekiel pen in Ezekiel 23. Were Christians wrong in not following the Roman Emperor's orders about proper worship in the first century, defying allegiance to Rome and its leaders? The Bible has loads more of examples. What do all these have in common? God's people taking on those who abuse their position of authority, by siding with the higher authority. 

The Bible teaches about hierarchies of authority. There is no greater authority than God. If a lower level of authority wants people to violate a higher authority, the higher authority is to be followed. Notice, the key word is VIOLATE. An authority can make some bone headed decisions, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are violating anything. Know the difference. The highest authority in our country is not the governor, the legislature, the courts, or even the president. In our country the highest authority is the constitution. Our constitutional republic is governed by the rule of law, not the rule of man. So when a governor or another public official tries to enact & enforce a mandate that violates the law of the land (constitution), who should people listen to? The higher authority.

If a governor, elected official, or unelected bureaucrat wants you to violate a higher authority what does that make them? A law breaker, or a criminal. So in such instances should you obey the law of the land (constitution/higher authority), or an official who demands that you obey them (even when they are violating the constitution and their oath of office)? That’s the tension we are called to this day. We are to obey every lawful authority, even when we think they are wrong (but lawfully within their power to do so). However, when an authority violates a higher authority, threatening punishment and wrong doing against those who would obey the higher authority, the unlawful authority must be resisted.

[Dennis1209]

Here we go again there The_Patriot21, stirring me up into a frenzy froth again 

Where to start? My wife listens and watches supposedly conservative networks and Youtube personalities; such as Fox News and in particular Dan Bongino. Sometimes minding my own business, I hear something and it perks up my ears. To make a long story short, these conservatives and commentators are denouncing any forceful actions the conservative [preserving] side has taken. They're claiming we still have alternative resources at our disposal, such as the courts.

Yea, how's that working out for us? Constitutionally we have the right to address grievances to the government; how's that working out? We address our desires and grievances also through the ballot box. Is anyone aware of the full extent of what was used to count and record votes; who made it and where it came from; what was officially found out and reported. Kicking out observers in many places and toting in carts and carts of fraudulent ballots; with many eyewitnesses and video evidence. 

The BLM, ANTIFA etc. can protest, occupy, riot and burn with impunity with support, financing and encouragement from government. Ah, my lather is getting to sudsy. 

Here's the question: The ballot box cannot be trusted; the courts are corrupt and won't get involved with this election; Washington is not listening to the peoples grievances. They are Hell bent on taking away the right that protects all our other rights, and against government tyranny and oppression. At what point has our government become oppressive and tyrannical, and before we are powerless to do anything about it? When will it be too late to stand up and take our country back? 

I really think it's too late anyway. Our nation for the most part, has gone down the proverbial toilet bowl, with no chance of a national repentance. Twenty-eight TRILLION fiat Reserve dollars in debt, not counting private debt and future obligations; it's unrecoverable, we're bankrupt and insolvent. The borrower is servant to the lender; we're servants to other nations. An economic collapse is in our near future, not a matter of "if" but "when."

I think the wife of Billy Graham [Ruth] said it best many years ago; and this was well before what we see today and the immoral laws that have been passed since then:

Some years ago, my wife, Ruth, was reading the draft of a book I was writing. When she finished a section describing the terrible downward spiral of our nation’s moral standards and the idolatry of worshiping false gods such as technology and sex, she startled me by exclaiming, “If God doesn’t punish America, He’ll have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.”

[Riverwalker]

Interesting, 

I am not entirely sure, where the line is here.  But I think it lies somewhere in the line "Render unto Caesars what is Caesar's and what Is God's, to God."  Both John and Jesus were dealing with the spiritual welfare of the people to whom they acted for. Jesus decrying the defilement of the temple for money's sake and John the defilement of the "kingship" of Herod by his adultery.

There is a time to speak and a time to act as a Christian.....but we must be very wise to discern when that is. And perhaps as Dennis1209 mentioned there will be time when we will have to let America go....to continue to be Christians

I found this on facebook today and it too makes me wonder. Many great things come to an end, don't let one of them be your relationship with Christ, because of your anger over what America has become, and is becoming

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Riverwalker

[other one]

15 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

We are to obey every lawful authority

I would think in the USA, that would be the constitution.   And the offices it creates as long as they work by the rules of the constitution.    Is that what you are saying?

[The_Patriot21]

1 hour ago, other one said:

I would think in the USA, that would be the constitution.   And the offices it creates as long as they work by the rules of the constitution.    Is that what you are saying?

I believe that is the gist of the post...

[TheBlade]

I truly believe the USA is as Israel is with God. America our forefathers made a covenant with God 

 "The Great Prayer Awakening of 1857-58, said those who came to Jamestown starting in 1607 put it in their Virginia Compact. To propagate, to expand the gospel, the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ and to take the gospel to people who were 'lying in darkness and had no knowledge of the one true God.' They said that was the reason they had come. "1620. Jerry Newcombe, author of The Book That Made America, paraphrased what they wrote down: "'Having undertaken a voyage for the glory of God and the advancement of the Christian faith. They came for God as opposed to coming for gold."

Tad more History "Massachusetts in 1631, said it like this: "'Others may come to the New World for wealth and furs.' He said, 'We have another goal, another end. We have entered into an explicit covenant with God to be His people in this New World.'  And they wanted to be that city on a hill. They wanted to be a model of Christianity for the rest of the world to see."

So this nation belongs to God and  we should stand up speak out n this Nation. Some USE to I remember lol. Church seems to be so quiet. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by TheBlade

[missmuffet]

20 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

This was written by a friend of mine and a local pastor...very well written and thought provoking considering the times.

 

Some people think that Christians should never speak or act out against Gov't authority, citing passages like Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:11-17. Many of these same people think it was wrong for Americans to rebel against King George in the Revolutionary War. Was George Washington a rebel against God's word? Is our nation founded upon rebellion to the Bible? Some Christians think so, but let's actually consider the rest of the story about disobeying unlawful authority in the Bible.

Was John the Baptist out of line when he ridiculed and condemned King Herod for violating the law with his adulterous relationship? Yeah, Herod was the king, but does that mean he could do whatever he wanted? What was John the Baptist like? Was he a delicate and soft spoken man, dressed gorgeously appareled in the king's courts (Luke 7:24-26)? Or was he a rough looking character with course sandpaper for words (Matt. 3:7)? Or what of the meek and mild Jesus? Did Jesus himself use lightness or delicate phrases when the Temple was overrun by those who didn't honor God's authority (John 2:13-17; Matt. 21:12)? Did he commit destruction of property and assault when he turned over tables and chased people around with a whip he made? Do you think you're better than Christ in how you would have handled that? What would you had thought if you stumbled upon that scene with your own eyes and ears? Or how about the religious leaders of Jesus day? How did Jesus address those religious leaders in authority in Matthew 23? Do you think it was loving for him to openly call them names and to castigate these leaders to their face, only after confronting them repeatedly before but to no avail? What would you think of Jesus had you been there in person to see this? Would you think Jesus was wrong and out of line? Does it conflict with how you feel Jesus should have acted? How do you feel about Jesus when he said similar things with the religious leaders on another occasion, even as an invited guest at a Pharisee's house no less (Luke 11:37-54)?! Be careful lest you judge the Judge of all things. 

Were the apostles wrong in openly violating the religious leaders commands to not speak of Jesus in the Temple? What was their response in Acts 5:28-33? Or what about the 3 Hebrew rebels that violated the King's commandment in Daniel 3? Did God vindicate their rebellion to an unlawful authority by seeing them through the fiery furnace? Nevermind the coarse and crude language God had Ezekiel pen in Ezekiel 23. Were Christians wrong in not following the Roman Emperor's orders about proper worship in the first century, defying allegiance to Rome and its leaders? The Bible has loads more of examples. What do all these have in common? God's people taking on those who abuse their position of authority, by siding with the higher authority. 

The Bible teaches about hierarchies of authority. There is no greater authority than God. If a lower level of authority wants people to violate a higher authority, the higher authority is to be followed. Notice, the key word is VIOLATE. An authority can make some bone headed decisions, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are violating anything. Know the difference. The highest authority in our country is not the governor, the legislature, the courts, or even the president. In our country the highest authority is the constitution. Our constitutional republic is governed by the rule of law, not the rule of man. So when a governor or another public official tries to enact & enforce a mandate that violates the law of the land (constitution), who should people listen to? The higher authority.

If a governor, elected official, or unelected bureaucrat wants you to violate a higher authority what does that make them? A law breaker, or a criminal. So in such instances should you obey the law of the land (constitution/higher authority), or an official who demands that you obey them (even when they are violating the constitution and their oath of office)? That’s the tension we are called to this day. We are to obey every lawful authority, even when we think they are wrong (but lawfully within their power to do so). However, when an authority violates a higher authority, threatening punishment and wrong doing against those who would obey the higher authority, the unlawful authority must be resisted.

We are to obey the Government authorities unless it goes against the Word of God. God has control of everything He is not going to let it get out of control until the 7 year tribulation. 

[Sower]

20 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

Some people think that Christians should never speak or act out against Gov't authority, citing passages like Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:11-17. Many of these same people think it was wrong for Americans to rebel against King George in the Revolutionary War. Was George Washington a rebel against God's word? Is our nation founded upon rebellion to the Bible? Some Christians think so, but let's actually consider the rest of the story about disobeying unlawful authority in the Bible.

 

Why would God bless America to be the greatest nation in the world,
if it was founded against His will?

A Patriot is Loyal to God and country.

During the times of our country's revolution, it wasn't the whole people who rose up, but the few.

Only about a third of the people fought, gave of their time and money, sons, land and life. Involved.
The rest were at home waiting to see who would win, straddling the fence, to then pledge allegiance, to the victor.
They were called sunshine patriots, or summer soldiers. (The herd mentality, complaining, yet unwilling to fight for their freedom)
The mass media and 'higher' education has eroded our country's founding convictions, and our patriotism. 
We should be good stewards of all that God has blessed us with, including our country. But;

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities,
against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places"

Pray without ceasing.......

[The_Patriot21]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

We are to obey the Government authorities unless it goes against the Word of God. God has control of everything He is not going to let it get out of control until the 7 year tribulation. 

Its already out of control...the whole concept of things wont get out of control (at least ours) until the tribulation, is a false one. There has been genocidies, tyrants and evil running rampant since the garden and thats not going to change until Christs return. Every government has turned to tyranny, whats happening now is absolutely nothing new, its definetly NOT the first time its happenned.

The difference is what is the higher power. Obviously God the highest-He is always in control and will always be in control-even during the tribulation. He will never NOT be in control. However who is in authority as far as government is concerned?

Well, unlike most governments in the world the US is a constitional Republic. NOT a democracy. Or a monarchy. Or a dictatorship. And not just a republic...a constitutional republic. Which means the Constition-NOT the people in govermment is the highest authority in the land (Besides God) and the people we elect are put in place to protect the constition and the rights it grants us, and that Constition not only gives us the right-but the RESPONSIBILITY to protest, disobey and even overthrow, the men charged with representing us if they become corrupt and start ignoring said constitution.

As Deitrich Bonhoeffer said in nazi Germany when asked why he was standing against the nazi regime-an act that meant certain death (and ultimately led to his) "Silence in the face of evil is itself evil. God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak; not to act is to act"

[missmuffet]

1 minute ago, The_Patriot21 said:

Its already out of control...the whole concept of things wont get out of control (at least ours) until the tribulation, is a false one. There has been genocidies, tyrants and evil running rampant since the garden and thats not going to change until Christs return. Every government has turned to tyranny, whats happening now is absolutely nothing new, its definetly NOT the first time its happenned.

The difference is what is the higher power. Obviously God the highest-He is always in control and will always be in control-even during the tribulation. He will never NOT be in control. However who is in authority as far as government is concerned?

Well, unlike most governments in the world the US is a constitional Republic. NOT a democracy. Or a monarchy. Or a dictatorship. And not just a republic...a constitutional republic. Which means the Constition-NOT the people in govermment is the highest authority in the land (Besides God) and the people we elect are put in place to protect the constition and the rights it grants us, and that Constition not only gives us the right-but the RESPONSIBILITY to protest, disobey and even overthrow, the men charged with representing us if they become corrupt and start ignoring said constitution.

As Deitrich Bonhoeffer said in nazi Germany when asked why he was standing against the nazi regime-an act that meant certain death (and ultimately led to his) "Silence in the face of evil is itself evil. God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak; not to act is to act"

No, it is not out of control. It may seem that way to you but God is still in control and He always will be.