Question On John 3:8

[enoob57]

15 minutes ago, Walter and Deborah said:

i. Since we can’t control the Spirit, “It should lead us to be very tender and jealous in our conduct towards the Holy Ghost, so that we do not grieve him and cause him to depart from us.”

I personally would contend with this due to this verse
Titus 3:5-7

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
KJV
For if it were not works that saved it will not be works that keep...

and this verse
Heb 13:5

5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
KJV
 

[R. Hartono]

We cannot understand the mind of God/Holy Spirit as He has his own plan in our life.

[JohnD]

On 1/10/2021 at 4:22 PM, Riverwalker said:

When Jesus is talking about being born again he says the following

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

And in all my years as a Christian, I have never really been able to wrap my head around it.  Love to hear your insight.

 

Scripture in context

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Salvation is not for fallen spirits (i.e. the angels who fell) but for man who is born of

water (the amniotic fluid of human childbirth) signifying for humans only. Jesus came

as a man so he could be our kinsman redeemer.

The demons believe and tremble because their belief / knowledge Jesus is the Messiah 

does not save them because he is not their kinsman redeemer.

Angels who fell could not be redeemed since they are already in their eternal state.

Not so with man.

We are not in our eternal state yet (which is why the angel with the flaming sword

banished Adam and Eve from Eden to keep them from eating of the tree of Life and

be eternally in their fallen state).

The wind blowing where it wishes etc. is merely more idiomatic references to the time

of the distinction between the flesh and the spirit.

Idiomatic references like "being born of water."

 

[Waggles]

On 1/11/2021 at 8:52 AM, Riverwalker said:

When Jesus is talking about being born again he says the following

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

And in all my years as a Christian, I have never really been able to wrap my head around it.  Love to hear your insight.

This is foretelling the coming Spirit-filled church wherein disciples would be baptised in water and baptised in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of signs following; such as speaking in a new tongue.

John 3:8
(DRB)  The Spirit breatheth where he will and thou hearest his voice: but thou knowest not whence he cometh and whither he goeth. So is every one that is born of the Spirit.

(LITV)  The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice; but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone having been generated from the Spirit.

(YLT)  the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.

A Spirit-filled Pentecostal Christian understands this verse after they have been born new again.

[Riverwalker]

6 hours ago, Waggles said:

This is foretelling the coming Spirit-filled church wherein disciples would be baptised in water and baptised in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of signs following; such as speaking in a new tongue.

John 3:8
(DRB)  The Spirit breatheth where he will and thou hearest his voice: but thou knowest not whence he cometh and whither he goeth. So is every one that is born of the Spirit.

(LITV)  The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice; but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone having been generated from the Spirit.

(YLT)  the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.

A Spirit-filled Pentecostal Christian understands this verse after they have been born new again.

I have to disagree here a bit, Jesus is telling this to nicodemous on a personal level, and being born in the spirit and being baptized in the spirit are two different things. One is required for salvation  and one is not

[Waggles]

4 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

and being born in the spirit and being baptized in the spirit are two different things. One is required for salvation  and one is not

Wrong.

Being baptised in the Holy Ghost is being born of the Spirit.

One baptism consisting of full immersion water dunking coupled with baptism in the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of praying in a new tongue = being born from above or new birth. 

[Riverwalker]

1 hour ago, Waggles said:

Wrong.

Being baptised in the Holy Ghost is being born of the Spirit.

One baptism consisting of full immersion water dunking coupled with baptism in the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of praying in a new tongue = being born from above or new birth. 

Please provide biblical evidence that tongues is required for salvation (I am pentecostal btw) or that baptism of the Holy spirit brings new birth.

Because I am pretty sure the bible says that if believe...if we confess, and by grace through faith we are saved.

John 316 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life

and

Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 

And

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 

So it grace by Faith/belief that we are saved.

I am not arguing the wonder and majesty of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and tongues, I am just arguing your assertion that is required to be saved.

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Riverwalker

[Waggles]

1John 2:24  Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. 
25  And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life. 
26  I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 
27  But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

1John 3:23  And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 
24  Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. 

1John 5:11  And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 
12  Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 
13  I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. 

Romans 8:9  You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.