What do you Believe

[Guest 831]

Hi All.

It has been asked weather or not we or any of us believe in the Rapture or what do we believe. Well the only thing I can say to that is if we believe in the word of God ( the Bible ) from start to Finnish we have to believe in the Rapture as the word of God says this will happen. I have found in looking through quite a few forums & reading what a lot of people have had to say on this subject, Its such a shame because the majority of people who say that they are Christians do not believe the Bible from start to Finnish they have said that they believe certain parts of it or that they believe lets say 95% of it but not all of it. So many people & churches tend to miss out great big chunks of the word, Its like lets say the catholics they have now chosen to say that the first seven chapters of Gen is not true. Well I see it like this you either believe in the word of God & what it says in its entirety from start to Finnish or not at all, you can not pick & chose what you will or will not believe of the word of God.

Someone said what was the pre-trib rapture well I think that this explains it.

The timing of the Rapture in relation to the Tribulation is one of the most controversial issues in the church today. The three primary views are Pretribulational (the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation), Midtribulational (the Rapture occurs at the mid-point of the Tribulation), and Posttribulational (the Rapture occurs at the end of the Tribulation). A 4th view, commonly known as Pre-wrath, is a slight modification of the Midtribulational position. First of all, it is important to recognize the purpose of the Tribulation. According to Daniel 9:27, there is a seventieth

[Guest 831]

Hi All.

Thank you for the welcome Mark, Your posts are well put & also full of wisdom. I pray that they are taken for the truth they stand for & the truth that is the word of God. May I also say the word of God taken in full context & not in snippets for as & when it seems to fit.

God Bless you all

831

[His Ambassador]

There will be a "catching away" of the Believers but I do not buy the commonly taught "Rapture" theory. I believe we are at least a thousand years away from the "Rapture".

[His Ambassador]

OOPS! Once is enough.

Edited November 19, 2005 by His Ambassador

[Guest Church Woman]

Praise the lord All. I am new to the chat world. Because i am a christian women i thought it would ge appropriate to enter dialog with believers. I do believe that their will be a taken away, the Bible clearly states, however i believe also that many will come following the tribulation period. Personally i choose to go on the first round, why take the hard trip. God Bless

[Guest womanafterGod]

Praise the lord All. I am new to the chat world. Because i am a christian women i thought it would ge appropriate to enter dialog with believers. I do believe that their will be a taken away, the Bible clearly states, however i believe also that many will come following the tribulation period. Personally i choose to go on the first round, why take the hard trip. God Bless

your profile states your a man hon........

[eric]

Praise the lord All. I am new to the chat world. Because i am a christian women i thought it would ge appropriate to enter dialog with believers. I do believe that their will be a taken away, the Bible clearly states, however i believe also that many will come following the tribulation period. Personally i choose to go on the first round, why take the hard trip. God Bless

do you mean that there will be two second comings, one before the trib and one after?

And how do we know which one we qualify for? I've been given to understand that Christ is coming for His church, His bride, which I also understand to be all the regenerated saints, or born again if you prefer......... both the living and the dead..........Oh dear!

Edited November 23, 2005 by eric

[cag7800]

i believe in pre-tribution,however i believe that we are not to far from finding out.

if i'm reading it right(?) bablyon has to be restored,bablyon is in Iraq,she hasn't been restored..the war will end and iraq will become rich selling oil,she will rebuild bablyon( i've heard some say saddam hussien had started to) anyway it has to be destoryed again so i believe we will know in a few years. i also believe that there will be a time gap between the rapture and the 7 yrs that will come,anyway i just live my life like he is coming tommorrow and if it's turns out to be mid,or post i'll still be ready

[Avidan]

When I first met my wife, I was raptured away in love........so yes I believe.

As far as the trib.........better plan on goin through

If tribulation is for the Elect, how many will really make it?

Everyone is expecting to escape. So this may lead them to complacency in there obediance to YHSHWH-GOD.

If tribulation comes, they will fall like a giant red-wood tree.

Start now to build the faith needed in the day, when we are tested.

And test are a very real part of our journey in YHSHWH-GOD.

assure you, we are tested. yes YHSHWH-GOD knows who we are. But do we know who we are?! We think we know, but I assure you, untill tested, we really see the grey areas that must be addressed.

1 THESSALONIANS 2:4 NKJ

4 . . . even so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God who tests our hearts.

PSALM 105:19 NKJ

19 Until the time that his word came to pass, The word of the Lord tested him.

GENESIS 22:1-2 NKJ

1 Now it came to pass after these things that God tested Abraham . . . .

2 And He said, "Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering . . . ."

EXODUS 16:4 NKJ

4 Then the Lord said to Moses, "Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you. And the people shall go out and gather a certain quota every day, that I may test them, whether they will walk in My law or not.

DEUTERONOMY 8:2-3 NKJ

2 "And you shall remember that the Lord your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you and test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not.

3 "So He humbled you, allowed you to hunger, and fed you with manna which you did not know nor did your fathers know, that He might make you know that man shall not live by bread alone; but man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord.

DEUTERONOMY 8:16 NKJ

16 "who fed you in the wilderness with manna, which your fathers did not know, that He might humble you and that He might test you, to do you good in the end --

DEUTERONOMY 13:3 NKJ

3 "you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

JUDGES 3:1,4 NKJ

1 Now these are the nations which the Lord left, that He might test Israel by them . . .

4 And they were left, that He might test Israel by them, to know whether they would obey . . . .

2 CHRONICLES 32:31 NKJ

31 . . . God withdrew from him, in order to test him, that He might know all that was in his heart.

PSALM 11:4-5 NKJ

4 The Lord is in His holy temple, The Lord's throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men.

5 The Lord tests the righteous . . . .

PROVERBS 17:3 NKJ

3 . . . the Lord tests the hearts.

ECCLESIASTES 3:18 NKJ

18 . . . the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like beasts."

ISAIAH 48:10 NKJ

10 Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.

JEREMIAH 17:10 NKJ

10 I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

New Testament Scriptures

JOHN 6:5-6 NKJ

5 Then Jesus lifted up His eyes, and seeing a great multitude coming toward Him, He said to Philip, "Where shall we buy bread, that these may eat?"

6 But this He said to test him, for He Himself knew what He would do.

2 CORINTHIANS 2:9 NKJ

9 For to this end I also wrote, that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things.

JAMES 1:2-3 NKJ

2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.

JAMES 1:12-13,16-17 NKJ

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been proved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.

"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire], might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ"

(1 Peter 1:7).

[Avidan]

His second appearance happened a long time ago.

Late in the evening of that same day, the first day of the week, although the doors of the place where the disciples had gathered were bolted for fear of the authorities, Jesus came and stood before them: "Peace be to you," he said. [John 20:19]

They were in a complete panic, fancying they were seeing a ghost. "Why are you disturbed?" he said to them, "and why do you let doubts come into your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. Surely it is my very self! Feel me, and convince yourselves; no ghost has flesh and bones such as you see I have!" With that, he showed them his hands and his feet.

But they still refused to believe; it was too good to be true, and continued in their perplexity. So he said to them, "Have you something here to eat?" Then they offered him a piece of broiled fish which he accepted and ate before their eyes.

He said to them, "These events are the fulfillment of what I predicted to you when I was still with you, namely that anything ever written concerning me--in the Law of Moses, in the prophets, or in the psalms--must be fulfilled." He then gave them the key to the understanding of the scriptures. "This," he said to them, "is the gist of the scripture: The messiah must suffer, and on the third day rise from the dead. Furthermore: In his name the need of a change of heart and the forgiveness of sins must be preached to all the nations."

[Luke 24:37 - 47]

The next appearance will be seen and heard by the "Bride" of HIS elect.

And I Avidan am going to do whatever I must to get that invitation.

The time of the bridegroom's return is related to the bridal chamber's construction. When the preparations on the bridal chamber were completed then it would be the proper time. But the groom's father would be the one to give permission. It was a common expression or saying, a Jewish idiom, that a man would say when his friends asked him when his marriage would be. He would reply, "of that day or hour no man knows, but my father only."

The unknown day also is a reference to the Feast of Trumpets, which comes with the observance of the new moon. Since the new moon has a cycle of 29.5 days, it is uncertain on whether it will be seen comes 29 or 30 days after the last new moon.

Further, since the Feast of Trumpets is also known as the "Wedding of the Messiah", this phrase is a rapture reference in three ways.

1. It refers to the time in the wedding when the groom would return to fetch his bride,

2. It refers to the Day of the Feast of Trumpets,

3. It refers to the "Wedding of the Messiah" on the Feast of Trumpets.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Matthew 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Mark 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Luke 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.

Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Often reffered to as the "Rapture".

Case closed. The finality of our walk. We are with HIM, in "fullness".

The BEATITUDES are the main part of HIS LAW,

next to LOVING our GOD and our neighbor

because HE SAYS to.

POOR IN SPIRIT

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Matt. 5:3

The Psalmist writes:

The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart, and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. (Psalm 34:18; cf Ps. 51:17)

and from Proverbs:

There is that maketh himself rich that hath nothing; there is that maketh himself poor, yet hath great riches. (Prov 13:7 cf 19:1, 22:2-3, 28:6)

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BEAUTY FOR ASHES

Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Matt. 5:4)

Compare these verse from the prophet Isaiah: ... to comfort all that mourn; To appoint unto them that mourn in ZION, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; ... (Isa. 61:2-3)

And from Jeremiah: I will turn their mourning into joy and will comfort them (Jer 31:13)

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BLESSED ARE THE MEEK

BLESSED are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. (Matt. 5:5)

That Beatitude is a quotation of Psalm 37: But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. (Ps. 37:11)

Indeed, an earlier verse in the same psalm says: For evildoers shall be cut off, but those who wait upon the Lord. they shall inherit the earth. (vs 9)

Isaiah prophesies YHSHWH doing exactly what He did in that very word:

The SPIRIT of the LORD GOD is upon me]]ME; because the LORD hath ANNOINTED ME to preach good tidings unto the meek; (Isa. 61:1

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RIGHTEOUSNESS

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Matt. 5:6

This verse is a great comfort too, when all about seems unrighteous. That those of us who hunger and thirst after righteousness shall be filled has been a constant theme of scripture:

The Lord will not suffer the soul of the righteous to famish: (Prov 10:3);

the desire of the righteous shall be granted (Prov 10:24);

in the way of righteousness is life (Prov 12:28).

And:

Ho, every one that thirsteth come ye to the waters (Isa 55:1)

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed: (Isa. 65:13) ).

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MERCY

BLESSED are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Matt. 5:7)

Compare with:

Have mercy upon me, O Lord; for I am weak (Psalm 6:2)

He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he. Pro. 14:21

Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard (Prov 21:13)

For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice (Hosea 6:6; cf Micah 6:8)

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PURE IN HEART

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. (Matt. 5:8)

See the Psalms: Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? Who shall dwell in thy holy hill? He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart. (Ps. 15:1-2)

Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord, or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart. (Psalm 24:3-4a)

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CHILDREN OF GOD

BLESSED are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of GOD. (Matt. 5:9)

Again, peace is not a New Testament invention:

When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it (Deut 20:10).

Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it. (Ps. 34:14)

For he will speak peace unto His people (Psalm 85:8).

The way of peace they know not, and no judgment in their goings; they have made them crooked paths; whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.

(Isa 59:8)

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PERSECUTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS

BLESSED are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice and be exceeding glad; for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. (Matt. 5:10-12)

But they mocked the messengers of God and despised his words and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people (2 Chr 36:16)

O LORD my God, in thee do I trust, save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me. (Ps. 7:1)

May GOD YHSHWH give us of HIS GRACE and HIS HOLY SPIRIT to follow all the Beatitudes in our lives, but especially give us the courage to be prepared to be persecuted for righteousness' sake. In these days, those who stand against the values of the world will face affliction more and more.

YHSHWH PROMISES to be with us FOREVER:

"Persecuted, but not forsaken" (2 Cor 4:9)