Not me Posted January 30, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 513 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,192 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,355 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Don19 said: A pair of keys which I had kept on my keychain, which unlocked the drawer at my desk at work, disappeared. Just vanished. One day they were on my keychain, and the next they were totally gone from the keychain. When I believed--that is, that it is finished and salvation in Christ is permanent--after a rather sudden change of heart from being an atheist and a period of seeking God, it also occurred to me what the meaning of that was: that God has locked me away and I am His forever. Interesting, thanks for sharing of your testimony.. God is so so good, be blessed as one of His.. One of His, Not me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted January 30, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.55 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2021 16 hours ago, Willa said: You seem to be twisting my words. I trust in God to save and keep me. Were I trusting in my own works I would be severed from grace. However, I am not a strong Calvinist. I do believe His grace can be resisted just as the Holy Spirit can be resisted and grieved. Act 7:51 "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. You don't appear to realise that you are contradicting yourself. If you believe that you can resist God's saving grace, to the extent that you can become lost again, then you are trusting yourself, to keep that from happening. Not only that, but, if you maintained your faithfulness, sufficiently to stay saved, then you would be able to boast, compared with others who did not. The Scripture you quoted (Acts 7:51) was spoken to unbelieving Jews, and should absolutely not be misapplied to believers! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted January 30, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,658 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2021 We are told that in the end times there would be a great falling away or apostasy. Like I said, I believe that God keeps all who want to be kept. However, there will be those who renounce their belief in God and in His Messiah and who choose to believe something else. to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 2Th 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, Heb 2:1 Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. Heb 2:2 For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, Heb 2:3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, We are warned to not neglect our salvation but to nurture it. Some ways to do that are by prayer, reading Scripture, fellowship and exhortations by inspired preachers. Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. Heb 10:24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, Heb 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. There are some that need to be warned who are taking God for granted. There are others who need to be encouraged that God is keeping them. 1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1Pe 1:4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you 1Pe 1:5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don19 Posted January 31, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 578 Content Per Day: 0.40 Reputation: 253 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, Willa said: We are told that in the end times there would be a great falling away or apostasy. Like I said, I believe that God keeps all who want to be kept. However, there will be those who renounce their belief in God and in His Messiah and who choose to believe something else. to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 2Th 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, Heb 2:1 Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. Heb 2:2 For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, Heb 2:3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, We are warned to not neglect our salvation but to nurture it. Some ways to do that are by prayer, reading Scripture, fellowship and exhortations by inspired preachers. Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. Heb 10:24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, Heb 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. There are some that need to be warned who are taking God for granted. There are others who need to be encouraged that God is keeping them. 1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1Pe 1:4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you 1Pe 1:5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. If you look at the next two verses of 1 Timothy 4 (that is, verses 2 and 3) it should become obvious that this is a prophecy concerning Roman Catholicism. This involves forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats, two very specific things that Roman Catholicism imposes on its adherents. Thus, the departure from the faith in no way refers to genuinely born again believers losing salvation, but professing believers who are actually unbelievers. Same sense in 2 Thess 2. We're in the apostasy right now. We've been in it for a long time. Paul told Timothy, evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. The warnings against unbelief in Hebrews have to do with true believers. Most of it has to do with turning back to works of the flesh rather than living by faith. We see this theme throughout the New Testament epistles. But it is so axiomatic that a born again child of God cannot be eternally lost - hence why the author of Hebrews talks about moving on from milk and into meat, and going on to perfection, and things that accompany salvation. It's one thing to be in Christ and to be born again, but the constant theme we see in the epistles may be summarized as James said, be a doer of the word and not a hearer only. How do we become doers of the word? It's just the opposite of how the carnal mind hears that: it is that Jesus Christ is all of our good works, all of our righteousness. We walk in Him just as we received Him (Col 2:6), having no confidence in our flesh. We are not to touch the unclean thing (2 Cor 6:17), which is man's good works of the flesh. The fleshly lusts which war against the soul (1 Peter 2:11) are the "good works" that the natural man desires to do. Because all of man's good works, all of man's righteousness, is as filthy rags before God, as an unclean thing (Isaiah 64:6). We are not to defile our garments (Rev 3:4), which is Christ's righteousness, by our own righteousness, which is filth. Edited January 31, 2021 by Don19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 31, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2021 On 1/27/2021 at 10:09 AM, Open7 said: I have came across some verses in the new testament that make it sound like you can lose your salvation. Here in Hebrews 3 verses 6 and 14 below (there are other verses that give this same vibe but I can’t recall them) “But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.” “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.” It says ‘if indeed we hold firmly’. I know you can say you have given your life to God, but many will not hold fast, but what if they did give their life to God but never went very far with it. I figured that when your saved your saved, that’s it, but these verses concern me a little for some people I know. Can anyone help? Thanks The book of Hebrews was written to Jews who had and held a legitimate covenant with Almighty YHVH. The point being made is YHVH fulfilled and superseded the Old Covenant with the New Covenant and that they (the Jews) must move on to the New Covenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 31, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just now, JohnD said: The book of Hebrews was written to Jews who had and held a legitimate covenant with Almighty YHVH. The point being made is YHVH fulfilled and superseded the Old Covenant with the New Covenant and that they (the Jews) must move on to the New Covenant. This is why for example it says no other sacrifice for sin (other than Christ) is left. It doesn't mean you reject Christ once, you are a goner... or if you are saved then sin, you blew it... No. It means Jesus Christ is the only sacrifice for human sin. The temple sacrifices (even though they only provided temporal atonement at best) are no longer even that. Only Christ. No other sacrifice for sin is left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 31, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2021 The key element in Hebrews 6 is the "tasting" of the gift / faith... Tasting is not drinking. Tasting is external drinking is internal. 1 John 2:19 clearly states that those able to leave the faith were never saved in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clancy Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) On 1/27/2021 at 4:09 PM, Open7 said: I have came across some verses in the new testament that make it sound like you can lose your salvation. Here in Hebrews 3 verses 6 and 14 below (there are other verses that give this same vibe but I can’t recall them) “But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.” “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.” It says ‘if indeed we hold firmly’. I know you can say you have given your life to God, but many will not hold fast, but what if they did give their life to God but never went very far with it. I figured that when your saved your saved, that’s it, but these verses concern me a little for some people I know. Can anyone help? Thanks I don’t believe we can lose our salvation ,if it was given by God, only God can set us free from sin....no other can do this....once we are born again ,that’s when our relationship with God begins, we are His children. Edited February 3, 2021 by clancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted February 3, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 404 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 239 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3, 2021 On the subject of reading The Bible, praying etc. My pastor once preached ‘if you don’t want to spend time with The Lord now, why do you think you’ll spend time with Him in eternity’? i Thought good point 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted February 3, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3, 2021 38 minutes ago, clancy said: I don’t believe we can lose our salvation ,if it was given by God, only God can set us free from sin....no other can do this....once we are born again ,that’s when our relationship with God begins, we are His children. Read hebrews closely. The warnings are there for a reason. The 'sin' he mentions is 'the sin of unbelief'. Not something you failed at or some act of commission or omission. It is very clear that IF you turn your back on God and worship other gods in place of him, or no god at all. Then look out... We accept God's offering of Salvation thru no merit of our own. Therefore we cannot lose it due to lacking merit. HOWEVER, we are free agents and are therefore able to renounce the Lord into apostasy like the Israelites did often. You are ALWAYS free to chose!! Believing Loyalty is what we need to have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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