What Does it Mean to Believe?

[David1701]

13 hours ago, Sower said:

 

We bear fruit because we abide, as a branch, in the true vine...(Jesus Christ)
Jesus produces the fruit, not me. (Not I, but Christ)
I am a branch only, attached (abiding) to the vine.
I cannot produce fruit!! I can only abide. And bear His fruit.
I don't do good works for God.
As I abide and God does the work. Through me.....(as I abide!  in Him")
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me)

 

some of   John 15

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth (prunes) it, that it may bring forth more fruit"

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me"
 

"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing"

"Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples"
 

I do agree with all this; but, it is important to realise that branches "in Christ" that do not bear fruit, are in him by outward profession and attendance at meetings only.  They are not "in Christ" by the indwelling Holy Spirit.  They are dry, dead branches, lodged in the tree, amongst the living branches, but without the life-giving sap within them, through a living connection with the tree.  They do not grow out of the tree, but merely sit there, held up by the living branches.  They make excellent kindling...

[Hopefully]

23 hours ago, David1701 said:

I only wanted to find out the other poster's view, because I had a suspicion that it was a works-righteousness view; however, I was not certain and I wanted to give him the chance to show clearly what he believes.  I would not have insisted on only one of those two views (which are very simplified), if he gave good reasons for another view.

This is what I meant. It kinda stuck with me because I’m a lady, but I figured eh let me stick to what’s important. Then later I just figured I’d mention it. 

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Hopefully said:

This is what I meant. It kinda stuck with me because I’m a lady, but I figured eh let me stick to what’s important. Then later I just figured I’d mention it. 

I hope I didn't offend you; but, when there's no definite indication of gender, I stick with the general "he" or "him".  It's just clunky and awkward to say "he or she" all the time.

[Paul James]

Smith Wigglesworth's book "Ever Increasing Faith" gives some excellent guidance on believing and faith that God will honour.

[Sower]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

I do agree with all this; but, it is important to realise that branches "in Christ" that do not bear fruit, are in him by outward profession and attendance at meetings only.  They are not "in Christ" by the indwelling Holy Spirit.  They are dry, dead branches, lodged in the tree, amongst the living branches, but without the life-giving sap within them, through a living connection with the tree.  They do not grow out of the tree, but merely sit there, held up by the living branches.  They make excellent kindling...

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth (prunes) it, that it may bring forth more fruit" John 15:2

This chapter I learned is about fruit bearing, and not salvation.
It is probably my most studied chapter in scripture.
There are many views concerning John 15:verse 2,
and would take a whole new topic/OP
It does say "branches in me", so I believe that.
And it does also say they are 'taken   away'
I'm not making any assumption here.............
 

The reason for my reply was your question, David;

On 1/31/2021 at 6:40 AM, David1701 said:

Do you bear good fruit, because God has made you a good tree (i.e. by making you born again), or, do you become a good tree, by virtue of bearing good fruit?

We, as believers, bear fruit
because
we abide
in the true vine , Jesus Christ.

I was simply trying to show what scripture says regarding fruit bearing.
We cannot produce fruit, God does that.
We can only bear fruit as we abide.

Abide; to tarry, stay in a given place, remain, to pitch a tent, to tabernacle.
(in Christ)     cool, huh...

Sharing light is all......
Thanks for your reply, David....

 

[David1701]

13 minutes ago, Sower said:

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth (prunes) it, that it may bring forth more fruit" John 15:2

This chapter I learned is about fruit bearing, and not salvation.
It is probably my most studied chapter in scripture.
There are many views concerning John 15:verse 2,
and would take a whole new topic/OP
It does say "branches in me", so I believe that.
And it does also say they are 'taken   away'
I'm not making any assumption here.............
 

The reason for my reply was your question, David;

We, as believers, bear fruit
because
we abide
in the true vine , Jesus Christ.

I was simply trying to show what scripture says regarding fruit bearing.
We cannot produce fruit, God does that.
We can only bear fruit as we abide.

Abide; to tarry, stay in a given place, remain, to pitch a tent, to tabernacle.
(in Christ)     cool, huh...

Sharing light is all......
Thanks for your reply, David....

 

The passage is not only about fruit bearing.

John 15:6 (KJV) If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 

The point is that there is an outward "in Christ" and a spiritual "in Christ".  Those who are outward only, bear no fruit, because they do not have the sap of the Holy Spirit to produce it in their lives.  These dry, dead branches are thrown away, withered and burned in the fire.

Born again Christians do abide in Christ, because we are kept, by the power of God, through the faith he has given us, unto salvation.

1 Pet. 1:3-5 (WEB)

 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy became our father again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
  4 to an incorruptible and undefiled inheritance that doesn’t fade away, reserved in Heaven for you,
  5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Sower]

51 minutes ago, David1701 said:

The passage is not only about fruit bearing.

John 15:6 (KJV) If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 

The point is that there is an outward "in Christ" and a spiritual "in Christ".  Those who are outward only, bear no fruit, because they do not have the sap of the Holy Spirit to produce it in their lives.  These dry, dead branches are thrown away, withered and burned in the fire.

Born again Christians do abide in Christ, because we are kept, by the power of God, through the faith he has given us, unto salvation.

1 Pet. 1:3-5 (WEB)

 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy became our father again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
  4 to an incorruptible and undefiled inheritance that doesn’t fade away, reserved in Heaven for you,
  5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I can see you are locked in on the non fruit bearing branches.
I thought your question was this below;

Do you bear good fruit, because God has made you a good tree (i.e. by making you born again), or, do you become a good tree, by virtue of bearing good fruit?

That was what I was replying to, not about
the "taken away branches"
My mistake.

(Your getting into a very much debated verse, suitable for another thread)

 

 

[David1701]

12 minutes ago, Sower said:

I can see you are locked in on the non fruit bearing branches.
I thought your question was this below;

Do you bear good fruit, because God has made you a good tree (i.e. by making you born again), or, do you become a good tree, by virtue of bearing good fruit?

That was what I was replying to, not about
the "taken away branches"
My mistake.

(Your getting into a very much debated verse, suitable for another thread)

 

 

That question of mine was to a specific poster, to find out what she believed.  My response to you was based upon what you posted.

I agree that it's a much debated verse; and to discuss it at length, in this thread, would probably derail the thread, so I'll stop now.

[LearningToLetGo]

I'm very much enjoying this thread. All this talk of fruit and vines an abiding is fascinating.

[Sower]

2 hours ago, LearningToLetGo said:

I'm very much enjoying this thread. All this talk of fruit and vines an abiding is fascinating.

 

It is really cool once you get your head into it.
I discovered John 15 over 35yrs ago reading my KJV bible, and verse 2 says

"Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit"

That troubled me, that God would "purge" those branches that actually bore fruit.
I knew Jesus was the vine, and we as believers were the branches, in the vine.
Why would God purge those who produced fruit? It sounder like chastisement.
Some time later, I was reading an old  living bible and read the same verse. It said;

he(Jesus) prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more (fruit)
It hit me, thinking about the wild Mustang grape vines and branches that grow in the wild out here in the country where we live. They have very long branches up to 20-30 feet long, sometimes covering up an oak tree and kill it. But for all the branches, they have little fruit. All the nourishment is used to keep the branches growing , so little is used for fruit.

Lot of branches. Little fruit.

But if the vine dresser prunes off the unnecessary branch growth that slows fruit development, there will be a lot more fruit.
Lot of fruit. Little branches.

I got it.
The vine dresser (God the Father) prunes His vine cutting off all the unnecessary parts of the branches, us, so that there will be more fruit. So I realized that when things seem to be going wrong, problems trials, a loss of a friend or a job, it could simply be the Father pruning me. Less me, more fruit! Cutting off all that stuff that is not fruitful, that I would then bear more fruit. The lost friend could be He wanted me to have a better friend's influence on me, and the same with getting a better job to better use my skills more for His glory.
Much fruit glorifies the Father!
When I practice an awareness of God, I will acknowledge Him in my work throughout the day, knowing He's right there, adding a peace to the shop.
It's His shop, He's in control. (If I could just remember)
I suppose this is my attempt to abide, to stay aware of His presence and keep up dialog with Him. Real life creates plenty distractions, but that's ok, I just press on.
There's more to John 15 for study for sure. I really am encouraged learning the wisdom there.
Your right LearningToLetGo, it is fascinating. (discovering new nuggets of wisdom)