Should I Tell My Non-Christian Friends God has Determined Them to Go to Hell?

[Buddy D. Mouse]

2 hours ago, clancy said:

This view that is growing in the Evangelical church and was predominant with reformers like Luther, Calvin and even snagged John Wesley

Calvinism never "snagged" John Wesley - far from it.

[Uber Genius]

2 hours ago, Regenerated-Adult said:

David is right.  If Calvinists weren't born again, then there would be something to argue against about Calvinism.  But since Calvinists (and I use that term loosely, not necessarily in all its details) have been born again, why would a non-Calvinist object to their position?  There's room for brotherly acceptance as Christians for Calvinists and Non-Calvinists who both have been born again by God.  

This too is incoherent!

I'mnot sure that you comprehend my claims. 

There is no claim that Calvinists aren't Christians!

Stop attacking straw men!

My claim is that Calvin's doctrine is false!

But it is no part of my argument that is you don't have the right view of salvation you won't be saved.

That's an absurd view. 

The molinist, the Calvinist, the Arminian, the Catholic and Orthodox all have differing views of salvation don't they? is only the one's with the right soteriological view the only ones who are saved? May it never be!

So to as many as received him he gave the right to become children of God, even those whom called upon his name.

That whomsoever believe in him would have everlasting life

if you confess Jesus as Lord of you life and believe in him with your heart you will be saved.

For by grace you have been saved through faith not as a result of works that no man should boast. 

So salvation has never thing to do with right soteriological doctrine!

One trust's Jesus claims to be messiah and have paid for his sins in the cross and is the only way he can enter into a relationship with God. The person chooses to act on the conviction, drawing power, and revelation of the HS and upon their confession of Jesus as Lord they are saved.

Correct soteriological views don't enter in!

[Uber Genius]

41 minutes ago, Episcopius said:

Calvinism never "snagged" John Wesley - far from it.

I have some disappointing news for you.

"John Wesley’s View of Man: A Study in Free Grace Versus Free Will."

http://evangelicalarminians.org/john-wesleys-view-of-man-a-study-in-free-grace-versus-free-will/

 

[Buddy D. Mouse]

 

[Uber Genius]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

The Bible says that repentance and faith are gifts from God.  If you want to caricature that as being "like a puppet on a string", then that's between you and God (I don't recommend it).

Well luckily Calvin and the other Reformers do a great job eliminating man's free will completely, so as to eliminate any claim of "caricatures" altogether. 

A quick search of Luther's diatribe on the matter destroy some your claim of caricature.

"The Bondage of The Will"

 

The denial of free will was to Luther the foundation of the Biblical doctrine of grace, and a hearty endorsement of that denial was the first step for anyone who would understand the Gospel and come to faith in God. The man who has not yet practically and experimentally learned the bondage of his will in sin has not yet comprehended any part of the Gospel (pp. 44-45)

 

Free will is obviously a term applicable only to the Divine Majesty; for only He can do, and does (as the Psalmist says) “whatever he wills in Heaven and Earth” (Psalm 135:6). If free will is ascribed to men, it is ascribed with no more propriety than divinity itself would be-and no blasphemy could exceed that (104).

 

If anyone should tell you that a thing was free, which of its own power could go only one way, that is, the bad way-it could indeed go the other way, that is, the good way, but not by its own power, only with the help of another-could you refrain from laughing, my friend? For on these grounds I shall easily establish that a stone or a log has free will, because it can go up and down; though by its own power it can only go down, and can go up only with the help of another! (142-143).

 

Luther continued: “To give the name of freedom to something that has no freedom is to apply to it a term that is empty of meaning. Away with such freaks of language!” (148-149).

 

The apostle, therefore, is bridling the ungodly who take offense at his plain speaking, telling them they should realize that the Divine will is fulfilled by what to us is necessity, and that it is definitely established that no freedom or “free-will” is left them, but all things depend on the will of God alone (215).

 

Commenting on Pharaoh’s heart being hardened by God, Luther wrote: “His [Pharaoh’s] evil will would not have been moved or hardened of itself, but as the omnipotent Agent makes it act (as he does the rest of his creation) by means of his own inescapable movement” (207). God did not merely “permit” Pharaoh’s heart to be hardened of itself. God “makes it act by means of his own inescapable will.” Furthermore, God did not simply look into the future and see what Pharaoh would do. God is the one who actually caused the hardening of his heart. On God’s foreknowledge, Luther wrote: “Had there been in Pharaoh any power to turn, or freedom of will that might have gone either way, God could not with such certainty have foretold his hardening” (211). In other words, foreknowledge is due to foreordination, not vice versa.

Man has absolutely no free will but God is the cause of his actions as this last section highlights!

Pharoah is not permitted to sin, he is caused to sin! Like a marionette being controlled by a all-powerful puppeteer.

What you described as a caraciture Luther described as essential! NOt just him but almost all the Reformers. 

[Buddy D. Mouse]

I don't see any disappointing news - and still claim Wesley was never "snagged by Calvinism".

[Uber Genius]

45 minutes ago, Episcopius said:

 

Love The Doors, but never saw this version. 

[Buddy D. Mouse]

Niether did Jose Feliciano (he was blind).

[Guest clancy]

6 hours ago, Episcopius said:

Calvinism never "snagged" John Wesley - far from it.

 

Clancy, never said what you posted, you misquoted me.

[David1701]

20 hours ago, Waggles said:

"everyone" ? please elaborate

That is not what scripture teaches us.

Where does Scripture say that there is salvation outside of the Lord Jesus Christ?