Should I Tell My Non-Christian Friends God has Determined Them to Go to Hell?

[Uber Genius]

Ephesians 1:4-14

read and then ask 

Why did he chose us (those whom are saved)? 

Answer: to be holy and blameless

what did God predestine? (Not our salvation)

Answer: our adoption to sonship 

Why were We chosen and predestined and put in him?

Answer: to bring glory to Christ through our regenerated lives where we go on to rule and reign with him. (Not predestined for salvation not chosen for salvation)

[Regenerated-Adult]

David is right.  If Calvinists weren't born again, then there would be something to argue against about Calvinism.  But since Calvinists (and I use that term loosely, not necessarily in all its details) have been born again, why would a non-Calvinist object to their position?  There's room for brotherly acceptance as Christians for Calvinists and Non-Calvinists who both have been born again by God.  

What doesn't make sense to me though, is when non_calvinists don't understand the doctrines of grace which is simply just exegeting the Biblical texts, or when they cast aspersions on those that adhere to them, as if they are NOT saved.  That bugs me a great deal.

[David1701]

15 minutes ago, Uber Genius said:

Agreed!

The question was to spur a conversation about the growing influence of Calvinism in the Evangelical church. "Conviction of their need," is both spiritual and rational, in my view. Firstly the HS works, secondly we consider through our faculty of introspection New feeling of moral accountability toward God, secondly we examine rational claims by Jesus and his followers to determine if true. Thirdly we decide to act an confess Jesus as Lord. 

Calvinist would rail on my discussion of human falculties, or examining claims, or deciding. Those terms are for synergists who think man can earn their way to heaven. 

I am not a Calvinist and so would take your advice to heart and work with the HS to both help them understand the scriptures, God's loving nature, his enormous price he paid by sending his son to die in our place, where they stand as sinners separate from god's grace, etc. 

The Lord did indeed pay an enormous price - paid in full.  He bore all the sins and punishments of all those for whom he died.  This leads to a vitally important question.

Since the Lord Jesus bore all the sins and punishment of those for whom he died, how can God justly punish anyone for whom he died, for those same sins?

[Uber Genius]

11 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Well now, that's strange, because I also agree with the post of clancy's to which you replied; but, I am what you would call a "Calvinist" (I don't like the term).

It appears that part of what you are rejecting is not what we believe...

I started by quoting CALVIN IN CONTEXT, if you believe that humans have anything whatsoever to do with salvation you are not a Calvinist!

However, I invite you to find quotes by Calvin that refute my earlier quote by Calvin. I'm will to look at the evidence.

Further you can take quotes in context from any of the half-dozen or so Calvinist theologians that are in the Evangelical church that I have mentioned. 

[Regenerated-Adult]

If you have non-Christian friends and you tell them that God predestinated them to hell, because you have misunderstood the doctrines of grace (Calvinism), then you are simply just being a bit of an idiot, since you do not know whether God will save them or not.  They could be saved on their death bed.  And furthermore, it makes no sense to say any such thing to them.  You appear to be attacking the doctrines of grace in an attempt to undermine them with this post.

[David1701]

Just now, Uber Genius said:

I started by quoting CALVIN IN CONTEXT, if you believe that humans have anything whatsoever to do with salvation you are not a Calvinist!

 

Firstly: you do realise that what you call "Calvinism" is not from Calvin, don't you?  "Calvinism" was just a nickname, given by a Lutheran, for the Doctrines of Grace, as found in the Bible.

Secondly: of course humans have something to do with salvation!  Those who are saved are the recipients of it.  We are greatly affected by it; but, this is not what you mean, is it?  What you mean is that something from fallen man is the deciding factor in man's salvation (whether that be will, choice or works).  This is directly contradicted by Scripture and would, if true, give those who are saved room to boast.

[Uber Genius]

4 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Since the Lord Jesus bore all the sins and punishment of those for whom he died, how can God justly punish anyone for whom he died, for those same sins?

Now this is a confusing question.

it is God's plan.

he chose it in order to pay for all men's who would confess him as lord.

so you are asking how God can punish those he justified? He can't! 

help me better understand you.

[David1701]

Just now, Uber Genius said:

Now this is a confusing question.

it is God's plan.

he chose it in order to pay for all men's who would confess him as lord.

so you are asking how God can punish those he justified? He can't! 

help me better understand you.

Do you agree that, on the cross, the Lord bore all the sins and punishment of those for whom he died?

If the answer is, "Yes", then God cannot justly punish anyone for whom Christ died, because that punishment has already been carried out, in full, on the Lord.  This is the meaning of substitutionary atonement.  The Lord was our substitute, bearing our sins, in his own body, on the cross and bearing our punishments, in our place.

Now, we all know that salvation requires faith in Jesus Christ, so Christ having borne his people's sins and punishments guarantees that they will be given faith, otherwise God would be unjust.

[Uber Genius]

Just now, David1701 said:

Firstly: you do realise that what you call "Calvinism" is not from Calvin, don't you?  "Calvinism" was just a nickname, given by a Lutheran, for the Doctrines of Grace, as found in the Bible.

So if you are talking about where the idea behind Calvinism came from, various post-nicene church fathers wrote about it but Augustine wrote extensively on the matter. Later during the early scholastic period Anselm renewed the idea. Later we had Aquinas holding to it. Finally Luther, Zwingli, melangrhon, then John Calvin held similar views!

John Calvin is a historical figure. And the view ultimately is named after him...but he was late to the game.

hope this helps.

[Regenerated-Adult]

I seem to recall a passage of scripture that says something like, "I chose you, you didn't choose me".  Am I right about that?  If that is indeed the case, there is no case against the doctrines of grace, which is simply the method used to determine the accurate interpretation of the scriptures.