THE ESSENCE OF JESUS MESSAGE

[Questioning]

After all the above it seems the holy ghost (spirit?) is different things to different people.   And that has also been my conclusion regarding observation of people I have know personally who claim to have received it.  It seems to be a wishy washy thing that can't be pinned down.  It would seem to me that if it is from God, it would have a consistent message that was easily understood.   And it seems strange that no one can "prove" they, or someone else actually has the spirit, or doesn't have the spirit.  I am beginning to see why the Church of Christ shies away from the subject.

 

[Tristen]

44 minutes ago, Questioning said:

After all the above it seems the holy ghost (spirit?) is different things to different people.   And that has also been my conclusion regarding observation of people I have know personally who claim to have received it.  It seems to be a wishy washy thing that can't be pinned down.  It would seem to me that if it is from God, it would have a consistent message that was easily understood.   And it seems strange that no one can "prove" they, or someone else actually has the spirit, or doesn't have the spirit.  I am beginning to see why the Church of Christ shies away from the subject.

 

Respectfully, this is a rationally weak, largely anecdotal, Innuendo/fallacy-based way to arrive at a “conclusion” - indicating that you had the “conclusion” before you considered the arguments. There is nothing of rational substance provided here to support your “conclusion”.

 

[Guest clancy]

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus.

John 3: 5-8

 

Jesus answered.I tell you the truth, no - one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Flesh gives birth to flesh, but  the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

You should not be surprised at my saying,You must be born again .

The wind blows wherever it pleases.You hear it’s sound ,but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going,So it is with everyone born of the Spirit “.

                          Personal Words.

When God testifies to your spirit that you are His Child, it can’t be explained, it’s between the Holy Spirit and you,.....” Mystery”.....

One thing for sure,.......For a word from God will never fail..

There is nothing “ wishy washy “ about having God testify to your spirit, that you are his child.

Very easily understood between Father and child.

That is His word.

But, to one ,who hasn’t had that testified to their spirit from God...couldn’t possibly understand it.

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by clancy

[Waggles]

3 hours ago, Questioning said:

After all the above it seems the holy ghost (spirit?) is different things to different people.   And that has also been my conclusion regarding observation of people I have know personally who claim to have received it.  It seems to be a wishy washy thing that can't be pinned down.  It would seem to me that if it is from God, it would have a consistent message that was easily understood.   And it seems strange that no one can "prove" they, or someone else actually has the spirit, or doesn't have the spirit.  I am beginning to see why the Church of Christ shies away from the subject.

 

Simply not true. God knows how prideful and disobedient humans are, and of their insistence on doing things their way (with a lot of help from the enemy).

God is strict in providing the scriptural evidence that clearly outlines his commandments and how we need to fulfil his will > obedience.

If, as you claim, the gospel and discipleship are so wishy washy then really nobody could be judged against the word of God. 

3 hours ago, Questioning said:

It seems to be a wishy washy thing that can't be pinned down.  It would seem to me that if it is from God, it would have a consistent message that was easily understood.   And it seems strange that no one can "prove" they, or someone else actually has the spirit, or doesn't have the spirit. 

That is most untrue - please refer back a page to my earlier post

Yes true worshippers (John 4) can prove that they have the Holy Spirit in accordance with scripture. God is not the author of confusion. 

Mark 16:15  And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 
16  Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 
17  And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 
18  they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.” 
19  So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 
20  And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs.

Still happening today - people being born new again by water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism with the Bible evidence of speaking in new tongues. 

Acts 10:44  While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 
45  And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 
46  For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 
47  “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 

3 hours ago, Questioning said:

It would seem to me that if it is from God, it would have a consistent message that was easily understood.

It is easily understood and the truth is from God. I prayed to Jesus to lead me to the true gospel and to show me that Pentecost is true today. He did. 

Now how about you?

[Sower]

10 hours ago, Questioning said:

After all the above it seems the holy ghost (spirit?) is different things to different people.   And that has also been my conclusion regarding observation of people I have know personally who claim to have received it.  It seems to be a wishy washy thing that can't be pinned down.  It would seem to me that if it is from God, it would have a consistent message that was easily understood.   And it seems strange that no one can "prove" they, or someone else actually has the spirit, or doesn't have the spirit.  I am beginning to see why the Church of Christ shies away from the subject.

 

Actually Questioning, I understand your reasoning.
Your 'wishy washy' description infers lack of common evidence, which those without the spirit would not understand. This verse in the bible will help understanding;

God said,
"My sheep hear my voice"

Get it?
If you are not of His flock you will not recognize His voice (the Holy Spirit)
Do not wonder why you cannot grasp (pin down) what Christians try to explain their unique experiences with the spirit of God. Each will be different.
To describe the holy spirit is like Jesus explained it to Nicodemus,

 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

How would you describe something you cannot see. But the evidence in feeling it, and hearing the blowing sound of it, tells you it's there. Close your mouth and pinch your nose and see what happens without that which you cannot see.
Seeing is believing. Not seeing yet believing is faith.
Each Christian receives God's voice and describes it in their own unique way.

You said;
"It would seem to me that if it is from God, it would have a consistent message that was easily understood"

God says,
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,
saith the LORD.”

We cannot use human reasoning, or logic, when trying to understand the creator of the universe, our maker.

God says.
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding
In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths"

With out faith, belief, you will not understand the word, save a cry for salvation mercy to God.

¹⁰ But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

¹¹ For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

¹² Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

¹³ Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

¹⁴ But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

¹⁵ But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

¹⁶ For ***who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him?*** but we have the mind of Christ.

For those who believe;

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

 

"This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved
and to come to a knowledge of the truth"
 

 

 

[Guest clancy]

Well explained,sower, I enjoyed reading that.?

[Questioning]

Are the beliefs of the 4 of you posting above typical of people on this forum?  This thinking is what I know as "Pentecostal".

[Sower]

17 minutes ago, Questioning said:

Are the beliefs of the 4 of you posting above typical of people on this forum?  This thinking is what I know as "Pentecostal".

I go to a Baptist church.
I am not Pentecostal.  Some here are, I believe.

Wiki definition;
For Pentecostals, worship is a full-body, participatory engagement with God. The common hallmarks of Pentecostalism, such as speaking in tongues, spiritual healing, and miraculous signs, manifest God's presence as an embodied, participatory, ecstatic encounter with the Holy Spirit.

Others may here may agree/disagree, with above or explain better what they believe.

[Questioning]

More questions.  The format here is top notch.  Who are the people, and what are their backgrounds, and which organizations support this website?  And what is the nature of the connection to Israel?  It appears there is a news feed from there.

[Guest clancy]

2 hours ago, Questioning said:

Are the beliefs of the 4 of you posting above typical of people on this forum?  This thinking is what I know as "Pentecostal".

I actually worship God ,at an Evangelical church ,before that,I went to Kings Church.....charismatic Christian....

Edited February 14, 2021 by clancy