Why?Why?Why?Why?Why?

[apothanein kerdos]

Nice to know that there are proponants of segregation and ghettos here too

That is HIGHLY uncalled for and I take great offense at what you just said. There has been no bigger gentile supporter of Israel and the Jews than Tess. She has stood up for us and for you to equate her to wanting to create ghettos and segregate those "of the law" is uncalled for, un-christ like, and unbecomming a human.

If you don't like the questions I ask you don't have to answer them, you certainly don't have to read them, why do they bother so many so much?

Because what you propose is what Paul fought against. You try and say "context" but ignore the book of Acts which provides us with the context of the law and the Gentiles. Paul wasn't telling them they didn't have to follow the law for salvation, he was saying they didn't have to follow it period.

Shouldn't we always want to grow, to question why we believe what we do, and always be asking are we doing everything the L-RD wants of us? Are we shining a light into the world or are we shining HIS Light? there is a BIG difference.

There is a difference between challenging and launching 7 different topics at one time shoving a false religion down our throats and judging us if we choose not to accept it.

"Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" Acts 15:11

"Disciples" is used to refer to both Jews and Gentiles.

"But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, "If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not liek the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like the Jews? We are Jews by nature, and not sinners from among the Gentiles, nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.....for if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the Law I Died to the Law, that I might live to God....I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." Galatians 2:14-16, 18, 21

"Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" Galatians 3:3

Paul is talking about those that accepted Christ by faith but believe to be perfected, or to walk with God, they must follow the Law. Paul is saying if the Law is not good enough for salvation, then it is not good for the Christian life in quantification of spirituality.

"But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you diesre to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain." Galatians 4:9-11

As one commentary states:

Under the influence of the Judaizers the Galatians had at least begun to observe the Mosaic calendar. They kept special days (weekly sabbaths), and months (new moons), and seasons (seasonal festivals such as Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles), and years (sabbatical and jubilee years). (Cf. Col. 2:16.) They observed these special times, thinking that they would thereby gain additional merit before God. But Paul had already made it clear that works could not be added to faith as grounds for either justification or sanctification.

(Walvoord, J. F., Zuck, R. B., & Dallas Theological Seminary. 1983-c1985. The Bible knowledge commentary : An exposition of the scriptures. Victor Books: Wheaton, IL)

"Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?....So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman. For it was for freedom that CHrist set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to the yoke of slavery...and I testify again to every man who received circumcision (comes under the Law), that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law, you have fallen from Grace." Galatians 4:1, 31-5:4

"by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace." Ephesians 2:15

The word translated as "abolishing" in the Greek is katargeo which is better interpreted as "inoperative". In essence, the Law is inoperative in a Christian's life.

Why is the Law being abolished? Why is the Law being rendered useless?

"For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God." Hebrews 7:18-19

"When He said, 'A new covenant', He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." Hebrews 8:13

"For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never by the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect those who draw near." Hebres 10:1

In essence, the law was merely a shadow of what was to come. It was not meant to be eternal but to be a prophetic message of the kingdom of God, not to be perpetually followed.

"Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:19-20

"For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:3-4

In other words, we do not walk in the Law but instead walk in the Spirit which is a higher and perfect law. The Law established prior was meant to have "flaws" so that we could not follow it. It was to show the impossibility of obtaining salvation away from God's grace. Jesus pointed this out when He added to the law, explaining that it isn't just broken in action, but in thought, and showed even the Pharisees violated the Law. He wasn't clarifying the law or adding to it, He was showing the impossibility of the Law and the need for grace and more importantly the need to walk in the SPirit and not in the law.

Therefore, what is the purpose of the law in the modern context?

"Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through the angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed should come to whom the promise had been made...Therefore the Law has become our turor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith." Galatians 3:19, 24

The law was made to be temporary, as Paul states. The purpose of it now is to point to Christ, that all the laws show the need for grace, they show that it is faith, not works, that save us. The impossibility in following any one of them is what leads us to faith in Jesus Christ. It is not to be followed for it has passed its time, the seed, the promise, has come in Christ.

Don't judge us that are not under the Law nor seek to be under the Law. Don't judge us because we hold sabbath on a different day. Don't judge us because our clothing contains two different fabrics. Don't just us because we shave our faces. Don't judge us because we eat "unclean" food. Because of grace we have been called to a higher law. You stick to your useless and non-applicable law, I will stick to the new Law that is perfect in grace.

I leave you with this:

"When He had disarmed the rules and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." Colossians 2:15-17

By fulfilling the demands of the Law, Christ disarmed the demonic powers and authorities (cf. 1:16; 2:10), triumphing over them (cf. 2 Cor. 2:14). As a result believers are delivered from these evil powers which inspire legalistic rules about foods and festivals. No one should judge you by what you eat or drink because Christians are free from the Law

[other one]

well said SJ.....

[Trust & Obey]

Nice to know that there are proponants of segregation and ghettos here too

That is HIGHLY uncalled for and I take great offense at what you just said. There has been no bigger gentile supporter of Israel and the Jews than Tess. She has stood up for us and for you to equate her to wanting to create ghettos and segregate those "of the law" is uncalled for, un-christ like, and unbecomming a human.

Call it my sick sense of humor.. but, I found the ghetto comment rather funny. I'm sure it was meant as hyperbole and nothing more.

[apothanein kerdos]

Nice to know that there are proponants of segregation and ghettos here too

That is HIGHLY uncalled for and I take great offense at what you just said. There has been no bigger gentile supporter of Israel and the Jews than Tess. She has stood up for us and for you to equate her to wanting to create ghettos and segregate those "of the law" is uncalled for, un-christ like, and unbecomming a human.

Call it my sick sense of humor.. but, I found the ghetto comment rather funny. I'm sure it was meant as hyperbole and nothing more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny or not, she's accusing Tess of being no better than a Nazi who would have us put into ghettos. I find it offensive.

[yomotalking]

Close this Thread.

We have no need of calling each others Nazis.

Close it.

[Trust & Obey]

Close this Thread.

We have no need of calling each others Nazis.

Close it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this is a fine thread, how about just deleting the offensive post?

[apothanein kerdos]

Close this Thread.

We have no need of calling each others Nazis.

Close it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're not a moderator, let them handle it.

[EricH]

Whe question come up in large numbers there are two ways of looking at it.

1. To be irritated that people are not getting it.

2. To try and see what need is behind the question

For instance, numerous questions regarding the occult indicate to me that people have a spritual hunger. They are just going to the wrong places to get the need met. It is then up to us as believers to figure out how we can adress the need with truth.

In terms of all the questions regarding about the law, I am not sure what is behind it. There could certainly be an agenda. But it could also reveal that people are struggling with the balance between grace and obedience and how they fit together.

I guess what I am saying is maybe Paul was a good model. When He was at Mars Hill, he used their idolatry as a bridge to talk about the true and living God. Maybe we could do the same on these types of issues. Instead of being angry with those who don;t agree, just present the truth and let the chips fall where they may

[Guest yod]

Instead of being angry with those who don;t agree, just present the truth and let the chips fall where they may

wise words indeed.

How will we ever reach an understanding if we don't allow communication?

[Trust & Obey]

Whe question come up in large numbers there are two ways of looking at it.

1. To be irritated that people are not getting it.

2. To try and see what need is behind the question

For instance, numerous questions regarding the occult indicate to me that people have a spritual hunger. They are just going to the wrong places to get the need met. It is then up to us as believers to figure out how we can adress the need with truth.

In terms of all the questions regarding about the law, I am not sure what is behind it. There could certainly be an agenda. But it could also reveal that people are struggling with the balance between grace and obedience and how they fit together.

I guess what I am saying is maybe Paul was a good model. When He was at Mars Hill, he used their idolatry as a bridge to talk about the true and living God. Maybe we could do the same on these types of issues. Instead of being angry with those who don;t agree, just present the truth and let the chips fall where they may

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>