Seven Year Tribulation?

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, Selah7 said:

Well, I would say 3.5 years but now, I’m convinced that Jesus has shortened the great tribulation to five months—the actual length of the locust season.

Hello Selah7,

I like your thinking. The great tribulation in my view CAN be understood in a couple of ways. The 3.5 yr. version is plainly stated in Revelation-more than once. 

However they should NOT be added together. Instead, they overlap! The ones that, to me, give the best markers are the two witnesses and the demise of the beast. They don't start at the same time, though.

There would be about a five month difference between the two with the two witnesses arriving first. All technology seems to be working right up to the time they rise from death.

THEN, comes the five months of "cataclysms" AT THE END that include the locusts etc. which will end with the rapture/beast being destroyed by Jesus. 

Personally, I tend to look at the cataclysms as beginning possibly the SAME DAY that the witnesses rise, around Passover because of the similarity of the plagues of the Exodus. And of course, the culmination would then be some time very near Tish b' Av.

So, your focus on the cataclysms for the great tribulation is definitely valid and those who count the 3.5 yr. period aren't wrong because of all of the man-made sufferings and death. 

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Well, I would say 3.5 years but now, I’m convinced that Jesus has shortened the great tribulation to five months—the actual length of the locust season.

Revelation 9:1-5

9 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the [a]bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. 3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months.  …

I used to think that. These days I don't know. I don't see a length of time for GT anywhere. I see what you posted from Rev 9 but I don't see how it equates to the GT or if it is part of the GT, or the length of time of GT.

But I think it better than saying the whole 7 years is GT, or even 3.5 years. It's my hope it's short as it's quite terrible. 

[Diaste]

On 2/23/2021 at 5:22 PM, Retrobyter said:

It was "shortened" by not allowing the "tribulation" to be a CONSTANT harbinger! Instead, He gave them times of reprieve when they could rebuild and repopulate their numbers. He didn't shorten the time period; He shortened the NUMBER OF DAYS of "tribulation" WITHIN the overall time period. He shortened the TRIBULATION, not the TIME PERIOD!

Yes. Not many see this. It's pretty plain to me.

On 2/23/2021 at 5:22 PM, Retrobyter said:

It's the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, particularly the JEWS of Jerusalem, who have experienced, and are STILL experiencing, the GT "such as was not nor ever shall be!" What other Tribulation has lasted so long?! That's a GREAT - HUGE - Tribulation!

Why equate the GT with time? I get it can be understood that way should one choose but the clues as to why it's called megas thlipsis are right in the text, and don't those clues point to it's characteristics apart from time? And isn't the time, as in length, qualified in the same passage of text? And isn't this all within a set time of 7 years as Daniel said so many centuries ago? And further, GT is after the A of D and that, according to Daniel, is what tells us we are at or near the midpoint of the week.

Given that, which I do not have to quote as you know the scriptures, are we not looking at GT as a period of time within the last 7 years, within the last half of the last 7 years and then shortened from the 3.5 years of the last half?

So in truth then the GT is in the last half and does not last more than 3.5 years and, at least I hope, is significantly shortened from the final 3.5 years.

 

[Retrobyter]

On 7/8/2021 at 5:15 AM, Diaste said:

Yes. Not many see this. It's pretty plain to me.

Shabbat shalom, Diaste.

Right, He shortened the NUMBER OF DAYS of "tribulation" WITHIN the overall time period. He shortened the TRIBULATION, not the TIME PERIOD! Yet, some Christians will suggest that the second half of the "Seven Years of Tribulation," the "Great Tribulation" they call it, will be reduced in time by some percentage or factor.

On 7/8/2021 at 5:15 AM, Diaste said:

Why equate the GT with time?

Because starting and ending points were given within the Olivet Discourse. Some call it a "punishment" on the children of Israel, particularly the Jews, the children of Judah, but it was actually a result of their own stubbornness in not accepting their King, who is YHWH GOD'S choice ("maashiyach") for HIS King of Israel, the Maashiyach ("Messiah") Yeeshuwa` ("Yeshua`"), the Christ Jesus. 

On 7/8/2021 at 5:15 AM, Diaste said:

I get it can be understood that way should one choose but the clues as to why it's called megas thlipsis are right in the text, and don't those clues point to it's characteristics apart from time?

No, it includes both the severity AND the time of duration!

On 7/8/2021 at 5:15 AM, Diaste said:

And isn't the time, as in length, qualified in the same passage of text?

No. It was not the duration of the Tribulation that was limited; it was the INTENSITY of the Tribulation that was limited.

Picture a sine wave going across the page in a Cartesian coordinate system where time (t) is measured across the x-axis, and the intensity of the pressure (P), like the amplitude of the wave, is measured upward on the y-axis. The quadrants of the graph, when the axes are extended, are numbered "I" for the upper, right quadrant, "II" for the upper, left quadrant, "III" for the lower, left quadrant, and "IV" for the lower, right quadrant.

Normally, the center of the wave would rest half of its total amplitude above the x-axis. This would mean that the pressure was CONTINUOUS with occasional drops to zero but then jumping right back up again! This would be too much for the Jewish population, and the nation would not survive.

Now, SHIFT the sine wave vertically downward until the center of the wave is actually ON the x-axis. Now, there will still be the same length of the sine wave, but the peaks of the sine wave are seen at regular intervals. In between these peaks, the intensity would drop to zero and stay at zero for a length of time. This is how "the days of tribulation were shortened" without shortening the actual length of time. One of these peaks was the Inquisition, other peaks were the individual pogroms, one HUGE peak was the Holocaust, but all of these were given periods of reprieve when the intensity was at zero, allowing the nation time to recover. However, ALL of these persecutions were part of the overall pressure being put upon the Jews.

Why do I say it was "put upon the Jews?" Well, who else but the Jews would even CARE if they had to flee on a Shabbat or Sabbath, a Saturday? Yet, they were instructed to plead with God that their flight not be on a Shabbat!

On 7/8/2021 at 5:15 AM, Diaste said:

And isn't this all within a set time of 7 years as Daniel said so many centuries ago?

No. Daniel's 70 weeks of years (490 years) were counting down the time that the six goals would be met:

Daniel 9:24 (KJV)

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
1. to finish the transgression,
2. and to make an end of sins,
3. and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
4. and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
5. and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
6. and to anoint the most Holy.

There's absolutely NOTHING in Scripture that demands that the 70th Seven (the 70th Week) should be considered the "Tribulation," let alone the "Great Tribulation."

Furthermore, when one sees that the Tribulation is mentioned in verse 9, indicating the First Century A.D. and that verses 29 through 31 say the Second Coming of the Messiah comes "immediately after the Tribulation," then one can see that the Tribulation is a WHOLE LOT LONGER than a mere 7 years, let alone 3.5 years or less!

On 7/8/2021 at 5:15 AM, Diaste said:

And further, GT is after the A of D and that, according to Daniel, is what tells us we are at or near the midpoint of the week.

Well, there's no doubt that we are in the middle of the 70th Seven, but verse 27 shows that we are in a GAP of the Messiah's making in the middle of the 70th Seven. The first 3.5 years were the "Ministry" of the Messiah during His First Advent - His First Coming, but the second 3.5 years won't begin until AFTER His Second Advent - His Second Coming, when He once again offers the Kingdom to Israel.

On 7/8/2021 at 5:15 AM, Diaste said:

Given that, which I do not have to quote as you know the scriptures, are we not looking at GT as a period of time within the last 7 years, within the last half of the last 7 years and then shortened from the 3.5 years of the last half?

No, we're presently IN the Great Tribulation - Thlipsis Megalee  (Matthew 24:21) - which has been going on since the Messiah left the household of the Jews "desolate" (Matthew 23:38), as predicted by the messenger to Daniel in Daniel 9:27:

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the LORD' (Psalm 118:26)."

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he (the Messiah) shall confirm the (Davidic) covenant with many (the Jews but not all of the children of Israel) for one week (7 years, as David did in Hebron): and in the midst of the week (3.5 years) he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (the Messiah) shall make it DESOLATE, even until the consummation (the conclusion; the end), and that determined (the Tribulation) shall be poured upon the desolate (the Jews).

That "overspreading of abominations" is what the rest of Matthew 23:1-37 is talking about, when Yeshua` bawls out the transcribers of the Law (the "Scribes") and the P'rushiym ("Pharisees" = "Separatists") for the way they treated others and GOD HIMSELF:

Matthew 23:1-37 (KJV)

1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying,

"The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, 6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, 'Rabbi, Rabbi.' 8 But be not ye called 'Rabbi': for one is your 'Master,' even Christ (the Messiah); and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your 'father' upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called 'masters': for one is your 'Master,' even Christ (the Messiah). 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."

13 "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 

14 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16 "Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say,

"'Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!'

17 "Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18 And,

"'Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.'

19 "Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men'sbones, and of all uncleanness. 28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34 "Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"

They were BULLIES and MURDERERS, PRETENDERS to being righteous (that's what "hypocrite" means) and getting away with it because they had the political seats of power in Israel!

On 7/8/2021 at 5:15 AM, Diaste said:

So in truth then the GT is in the last half and does not last more than 3.5 years and, at least I hope, is significantly shortened from the final 3.5 years.

No, when Yeshua` left the household of the Jews DESOLATE, He pushed the PAUSE button and put these "Weeks" on HOLD! The last 3.5 "Weeks" will start up again when He RE-offers the Kingdom to Israel, a NEW generation of Jews, still "the beloved of God for the fathers' sake!" (Romans 11:28) Meanwhile, the Jews have been reaping what they'd sown in Tribulation: Pressure from persecutions, inquisitions, pogroms, exiles, the Holocaust, and lately the terrorism, in payment for their treatment of GOD'S Messiah!

The two halves of the 70th "Week" are like bookends to the Tribulation, which has been happening for almost 2,000 years now! THAT'S what makes it the GREAT (HUGE) Tribulation.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Retrobyter
It's Shabbat!

[DeighAnn]

On 7/10/2021 at 6:35 AM, Retrobyter said:

No, when Yeshua` left the household of the Jews DESOLATE, He pushed the PAUSE button and put these "Weeks" on HOLD! The last 3.5 "Weeks" will start up again when He RE-offers the Kingdom to Israel, a NEW generation of Jews, still "the beloved of God for the fathers' sake!" (Romans 11:28) Meanwhile, the Jews have been reaping what they'd sown in Tribulation: Pressure from persecutions, inquisitions, pogroms, exiles, the Holocaust, and lately the terrorism, in payment for their treatment of GOD'S Messiah!

Hi Retro,

Please consider this
Jesus speaking to WHO/WHOM/WHERE when He says

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the LORD' (Psalm 118:26)."?



Do you believe those in the Temple in 70 AD were saying,  

'BLESSED IS HE THAT COMETH IN THE NAME OF THE LORD'?  

(because He had prefaced that with ", Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say....)



Do you believe the 'House of Judah' WAS running the temple at the time of Christs crucifixion
or do you believe it HAD BEEN mostly taken over by the 'synagogue of Satan' aka the 'generation of vipers' aka   those 

John 8
37  I know that ye are Abraham's seed but ye seek to kill me because my word hath no place in you. 
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

thus fulfilling 

Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her Seed; It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel.

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.


Does it feel as if we are being ruled over with the rod of iron?  that the nations are being smited?  that the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God are being treaded by Him?  
 

Christ is returning as

 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And He hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
 

On 7/10/2021 at 6:35 AM, Retrobyter said:

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he (the Messiah) shall confirm the (Davidic) covenant with many (the Jews but not all of the children of Israel) for one week (7 years, as David did in Hebron): and in the midst of the week (3.5 years) he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (the Messiah) shall make it DESOLATE, even until the consummation (the conclusion; the end), and that determined (the Tribulation) shall be poured upon the desolate (the Jews).

I most surely would be PRAYING every single solitary day of my entire life
that that which is written above is absolutely 100% RIGHT 

....because the alternative is something I couldn't even begin to think about....


 

Daniel 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans;

Darius NAMED CYRUS by God

Daniel 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

Daniel 9:3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplication, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes

Daniel 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love Him, and to them that keep His commandments;

Daniel 9:5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments

Daniel 9:6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.

Daniel 9:7 O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.

Daniel 9:8 O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.

Daniel 9:9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against Him;

Daniel 9:10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets.

Daniel 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

Daniel 9:12 And He hath confirmed his words, which He spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.

Daniel 9:13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand Thy truth.

Daniel 9:14 Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth for we obeyed not His voice.

Daniel 9:15 And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly.

Daniel 9:16 O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from Thy city Jerusalem, Thy holy mountain because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.

Daniel 9:17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face TO SHINE UPON THY SANCTUARY THAT IS DESOLATE, for the Lord's sake.

Daniel 9:18 O my God, incline Thine ear, and hear; open Thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.

Daniel 9:19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for Thine own sake, O my God for Thy city and Thy people are called by thy name.

Daniel 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

Daniel 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Daniel 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

Daniel 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The most Holy =  the Holy of Holies isn't used of a person.  
Did the destruction of the temple end all sin, rebellion and transgressions of the people?  May have for the city at that time but is it 'sin free' now?  did the destruction of the temple bring in everlasting righteousness to the city and people?  did it seal up the vision and prophecy? and how was the Holy of Holies anointed at that time?  
 

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment


to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince


shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

WHICH HAPPENED
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off,


WHICH HAPPENED
but not for Himself


SO AFTER  -   AKA  -  NOT BEFORE,  NOR DURING 

CHRIST IS CUT OFF. 


THE SIMPLE FACT WE ARE TOLD IT IS 'AFTER' and not during TELLS US there is to be a separation of the last week from all the rest.  

and THAT LEAVES US WITH THE REST OF THE INFO GIVEN WHICH IS


and the people 
WHICH PEOPLE? 

of the pRINCE  
Which prince?

that shall come 
THE pRINCE THAT SHALL COME


Jesus tells us  "Be not deceived by any man"
aka
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition"
aka
"...then shall that Wicked be revealed"... whose coming is after the working of Satan with..."

So the people of Satan will come and destroy the city 
shall destroy the city and the sanctuary



flood, last one lasted 5 months, what does Satan bring?  lies and deception
and the end thereof shall be with a flood,

was there a 'flood' of any sort in 70AD? 
did desolations come to an end?

up unto the last moment
and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
 

That's a 'little h'
And hE shall confirm the covenant with many for one week

Why would Jesus cause the oblation to cease?  Why would Jesus confirm any sort of covenant with anyone for just a week?  Who would that be with if it were so?  
and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

Why would Jesus be 'overspreading abominations'?
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,


even until the consummation,

and who would this be happening to? 
and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I just can't see it, it makes no sense to me. 


And IF GOD HAS SENT A BLINDNESS HOW CAN HE THEN TURN AROUND AND PUNISH FOR IT?  IT MAKES NO SENSE.   CAN we say 'the Jews' are the desolate and if so, what do we call what Satan and his and their doings?


IDK... D

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by DeighAnn
didn't hit the post button

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, @DeighAnn

Sorry that I have no time to answer your post just yet, but know that I'm working on it, and I will post a reply as soon as I can.

 

[DeighAnn]

15 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @DeighAnn

Sorry that I have no time to answer your post just yet, but know that I'm working on it, and I will post a reply as soon as I can.

 

There is no hurry on this end.  Lately I find myself going much slower and really  thinking and praying on things that are brought up, leading to reading and study for longer periods of time than I have this past year.  So again, don't rush for mysake.  I am pretty sure the Word is calling me back into more study, less sharing time again and all I can say to that is YAH HOO!!!!!   God is GREAT, Love the LORD...

[Justin Adams]

On 2/15/2021 at 8:42 AM, Charlie744 said:

But as I mentioned, almost all have been drinking this coolaid for some 500 years and it is now perceived as "gospel" - so difficult to argue with such blind acceptance moving down a hill at great speed...... but it will come to the surface before HIS second coming..... In Daniel 12, we see the second mention to Daniel that he is to "seal up or shut up" this book (verses that will only be made known at the end of times) when knowledge will increase, etc.  This may also be applicable to man's increase in their knowledge base (medicine, communications, engineering, travel, etc., and it certainly has), but God is speaking about our increase in the knowledge and understanding of HIS Word! 

Yep. The 7 year tribulation is a MYTH. Darby and Scofield loved to adapt it all to their false version of eschatology. This equates to eschatology becoming theology. Definite and very wrong!

Just because many have been hoodwinked by this falsehood does not mean it is correct. Since most seem not to study for themselves and check their brains in at the church door, it is not surprising. Is it?

[Selah7]

On 7/10/2021 at 8:35 AM, Retrobyter said:

He shortened the NUMBER OF DAYS of "tribulation" WITHIN the overall time period. He shortened the TRIBULATION, not the TIME PERIOD! Yet, some Christians will suggest that the second half of the "Seven Years of Tribulation," the "Great Tribulation" they call it, will be reduced in time by some percentage or factor.

I agree; Christ said He would shorten the time of the reign of Satan.  I’m convinced of this, but also convinced the tribulation of Satan will be shortened to 5 months—to the time of the locust season.  
Revelation 9:5  And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. 

this five month period of the locust army, headed by the chief serpent, that old dragon, the devil, will soon be compared to a great flood, a flood of lies?

Rev. 12:15 
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

…
And look here from God's Word. How long did the waters of the great flood prevail upon the earth?

Genesis 7:24 
And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

150 days!  FIVE MONTHS! 
…
This is the second Woe! The 6th Trumpet has sounded and all hell is breaking loose! The locust army is swarming (of course not literal insects, but men/fallen angels—Satan’s army) and Satan's angels, posing as priests of God are leading the charge before Satan, in his role as the antichrist (the fake christ), as he comes prancing into Jerusalem on his pale white horse, dressed like the King of kings.  Woe, Woe!

But there are those who have the seal of God in their foreheads whom Satan and his troops cannot touch. These are the Elect, the bruisers, ready to kick dragon….

Gotta stop for now. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Selah7

[Justin Adams]

7 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

Christ said He would shorten the time of the reign of Satan.

haSatan has no reign. Yeshua is reigning supreme over everything. haSatan is just another small fry. The Almighty God gives none of His power or glory to another except His One and only UNIQUE One. Yeshua. Read the GOSPEL.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Justin Adams