Jump to content

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  23
  • Topic Count:  134
  • Topics Per Day:  0.03
  • Content Count:  2,877
  • Content Per Day:  0.57
  • Reputation:   2,608
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  08/07/2011
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

We know that there were times in scripture when healing did not take place. We should never assume that a physical condition remains because of either lack of faith or because of sin. First of all, none of us humans can see into another person's heart and know for certainty that their faith is weak or the church they attend has weak faith.  We simply do not know the purpose of such situations or why some in today's world experience healing and others do not.  

There are people that have recovered from covid-19 and others in spite of their firm faith that God would keep the well, have died from covid-19. I know this to be true, because I have read their obituaries online.  

If God intended for all to be promised perfect health, then Paul, Timothy and Trophimus would have had perfect health from the get go.  And the pastors who contracted Covid-19, would still be with us today. They would not of been excluded from the promise.   The life of the Apostles in Scripture speaks contrary to the idea all Christians will live a life of health, wealth, and a pleasant and happy life.  For they certainly had great faith didn't they? And yet they experienced unpleasantness.   Scripture says Abraham died without having received in his lifetime all that was promised him.

I do like the living bible's paraphrase of 2 Corinthians 12:10

Since I know it is all for Christ’s good, I am quite happy about “the thorn,” and about insults and hardships, persecutions and difficulties; for when I am weak, then I am strong—the less I have, the more I depend on him.

Same verse but NIV

That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Same verse but KJV

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

In summary,

It is NOT wrong to ask God to heal others or ourselves. Nor is it wrong to expect healing to happen.  No one should ever be told that the reason they are sick or their loved one died, is because of a lack of faith or because a past relative sinned. Or sorry, but healing isn't for today.  Being told this has certainly ship wrecked a lot of Christians faith, and/or caused them unnecessary grief.  Instead, we as brothers and sisters in Christ should comfort those who are experiencing discomfort.

 

  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Well Said! 1

  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  7
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  771
  • Content Per Day:  0.41
  • Reputation:   392
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  04/27/2020
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  10/07/1947

Posted
9 hours ago, Jacob75 said:

Yes indeed.  Perhaps you missed the significance of Jesus quoting and fulfilling Isaiah.

Jesus used Isaiah only to authenticate His identity as the Prophesied Messiah.  And, He used neither Isaiah nor His healing to indicate all healing should afterwards occur, nor that such wholesale healing is to be expected today.

God's Word is more than descriptive and clear, it gives boundaried definition for us.  Isaiah spoke nothing of the Church healing sickness because of Jesus being the healing Messiah.

 

 

Jesus validated Himself to John's disciples as the One whom John was expecting by describing the miracles and healing He was doing among the people.  Because today the Holy Spirit represents Jesus as if Jesus is still really here, His presence is validated in the same way.  Therefore if there are no supernatural instances of deliverance and healing there is no proof that the Holy Spirit is present and active where people claim Him to be.  Where there is no healing, deliverance, conviction of sin and conversions to Christ, for that church the Holy Spirit remains an indeterminate mist that "hovers" over the meeting but does nothing else of any useful value.

  • Well Said! 1

  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  8
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  47
  • Content Per Day:  0.03
  • Reputation:   6
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/22/2021
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

No Scripture speaks of any Holy Spirit "mist hovering" in a meeting of Christians.  No Scripture specifies visible Holy Spirit activity as a required sign of Salvation.  

 

 


  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  8
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  47
  • Content Per Day:  0.03
  • Reputation:   6
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/22/2021
  • Status:  Offline

Posted
10 hours ago, appy said:

We know that there were times in scripture when healing did not take place. We should never assume that a physical condition remains because of either lack of faith or because of sin. First of all, none of us humans can see into another person's heart and know for certainty that their faith is weak or the church they attend has weak faith.  We simply do not know the purpose of such situations or why some in today's world experience healing and others do not.  

There are people that have recovered from covid-19 and others in spite of their firm faith that God would keep the well, have died from covid-19. I know this to be true, because I have read their obituaries online.  

If God intended for all to be promised perfect health, then Paul, Timothy and Trophimus would have had perfect health from the get go.  And the pastors who contracted Covid-19, would still be with us today. They would not of been excluded from the promise.   The life of the Apostles in Scripture speaks contrary to the idea all Christians will live a life of health, wealth, and a pleasant and happy life.  For they certainly had great faith didn't they? And yet they experienced unpleasantness.   Scripture says Abraham died without having received in his lifetime all that was promised him.

I do like the living bible's paraphrase of 2 Corinthians 12:10

Since I know it is all for Christ’s good, I am quite happy about “the thorn,” and about insults and hardships, persecutions and difficulties; for when I am weak, then I am strong—the less I have, the more I depend on him.

Same verse but NIV

That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Same verse but KJV

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

In summary,

It is NOT wrong to ask God to heal others or ourselves. Nor is it wrong to expect healing to happen.  No one should ever be told that the reason they are sick or their loved one died, is because of a lack of faith or because a past relative sinned. Or sorry, but healing isn't for today.  Being told this has certainly ship wrecked a lot of Christians faith, and/or caused them unnecessary grief.  Instead, we as brothers and sisters in Christ should comfort those who are experiencing discomfort.

 

Jesus' could not do much of anything in His home town because of unbelief.  Jesus stated "Oh ye of little faith" when the Disciples could not heal In Mark 9.

The "conclusion" above is false.  Repent.


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  23
  • Topic Count:  134
  • Topics Per Day:  0.03
  • Content Count:  2,877
  • Content Per Day:  0.57
  • Reputation:   2,608
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  08/07/2011
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

@Jacob75

 I don't doubt God can heal people today, and there have been people who have said they received a healing. But by the same token, many are not for reason's we may not understand. It doesn't mean they didn't have faith.  It means that God has chosen something else for them.  Paul in contrast to the hometown of Jesus, certainly had faith.  He didn't doubt one iota, and yet God did not heal him of his ailment even though he pled with God. 

As for NAR's beliefs and doctrines, which you asked about in another thread.  I'm not interested in what NAR doctrines teach.  There is some truth mixed in with new age ideas to make it palpable.

 


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  5
  • Topic Count:  11
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  1,790
  • Content Per Day:  0.65
  • Reputation:   983
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  12/20/2017
  • Status:  Offline

Posted
On 2/25/2021 at 12:22 PM, Jacob75 said:

No Scripture specifies visible Holy Spirit activity as a required sign of Salvation.  

How wrong can a person be?

Mark 16:15  And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 
16  Who hath believed and is baptized shall be saved; but who hath disbelieved shall be condemned. 
17  And these signs shall follow them that have believed: in my name shall they cast out demons, speak with tongues; 
18  and in their hands they shall take up serpents, and if they drink aught deadly, it shall in now wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 

Acts 19:5  And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 
6  And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 

Acts 3:6  But Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but what I have, that give I thee. In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazorean, walk. 
7  And he took him by the right hand, and raised him up: and immediately his feet and ankle-bones received strength. 
8  And leaping up, he stood, and began to walk; and he entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. 

The indwelling Holy Spirit is about the power of God made manifest through the faith and lives of disciples > healings, miracles, signs, blessings - and not just for the disciple but also upon many who are prayed for (even those outside the fold). 

Acts 1:8  But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa and Samaria, and unto the uttermost of the earth.

Romans 15:19  in power of signs and wonders, in power of the Holy Spirit; so that from Jerusalem, and round about even unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of the Christ;

@Paul James is quite correct - unless your church is full of signs, wonders and miracles; the power of God by his Spirit, then the Holy Spirit is a theoretical construct; a mystery to those who do not have the Spirit of God. 

  • Thumbs Up 3

  • Group:  Mars Hill
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  8
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  571
  • Content Per Day:  0.35
  • Reputation:   248
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  12/03/2020
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  07/25/1961

Posted
On 2/24/2021 at 10:10 AM, Paul James said:

Matthew 8:16-17 is quite clear. Perhaps you missed these verses.

Hi Paul James,

In Lk.4:40 it is added that the Lord Jesus laid hands on each sick person separately for healing.

What precious evidence is given here that the Lord Jesus touches the sick person, makes Himself one with him, because His Divine Life is certainly able to heal all disease.
Here we see the great love that God the Father expresses to us in His Son Jesus Christ. Hallelujah!

 

God bless.

  • Thumbs Up 1

  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  7
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  771
  • Content Per Day:  0.41
  • Reputation:   392
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  04/27/2020
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  10/07/1947

Posted
6 hours ago, Waggles said:

How wrong can a person be?

Mark 16:15  And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 
16  Who hath believed and is baptized shall be saved; but who hath disbelieved shall be condemned. 
17  And these signs shall follow them that have believed: in my name shall they cast out demons, speak with tongues; 
18  and in their hands they shall take up serpents, and if they drink aught deadly, it shall in now wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 

Acts 19:5  And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 
6  And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 

Acts 3:6  But Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but what I have, that give I thee. In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazorean, walk. 
7  And he took him by the right hand, and raised him up: and immediately his feet and ankle-bones received strength. 
8  And leaping up, he stood, and began to walk; and he entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. 

The indwelling Holy Spirit is about the power of God made manifest through the faith and lives of disciples > healings, miracles, signs, blessings - and not just for the disciple but also upon many who are prayed for (even those outside the fold). 

Acts 1:8  But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa and Samaria, and unto the uttermost of the earth.

Romans 15:19  in power of signs and wonders, in power of the Holy Spirit; so that from Jerusalem, and round about even unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of the Christ;

@Paul James is quite correct - unless your church is full of signs, wonders and miracles; the power of God by his Spirit, then the Holy Spirit is a theoretical construct; a mystery to those who do not have the Spirit of God. 

The trouble with most of our churches is that they are well below par of what the early church was and so we don't see the signs and wonders that were common in the First Century.   In the same way that Jesus couldn't any mighty works in His home town because of their unbelief, the Holy Spirit can't do any mighty works because of the general attitude of unbelief in our churches.

But there are churches and groups that have the positive attitude of faith in Christ that the early church Christians had, and signs and wonders do happen in those groups.  But, the unbelieving churches are so steeped in their unbelief that even in the light of many testimonies of healing and miracles, they won't believe that these are genuine and do all they can to try and prove they are fake, just like the Jewish Pharisees who actually witnessed the miracles of Jesus, yet refused to believe that He was their Messiah.

  • Thumbs Up 3

  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  80
  • Topics Per Day:  0.05
  • Content Count:  2,300
  • Content Per Day:  1.46
  • Reputation:   1,125
  • Days Won:  10
  • Joined:  02/16/2021
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

is it possible that the healing miracles were just signs of Jesus and his apostles but are not promised to all people?


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  18
  • Topic Count:  7
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  9,101
  • Content Per Day:  2.49
  • Reputation:   3,016
  • Days Won:  3
  • Joined:  06/05/2015
  • Status:  Offline

Posted
On 2/22/2021 at 7:20 PM, Paul James said:

Jesus quotes the reference in Matthew 8:16-17.  Here is the passage:

16 When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick, 17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:

“He Himself took our infirmities
And bore our sicknesses.”

So it is obvious that Jesus' interpretation of the Isaiah reference is to do with divine healing.  Because John quotes Jesus in his gospel (14:12):

 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."

When Jesus used the words, "most assuredly" He means what He says is the absolute truth without any doubt at all.  This means that genuine believers can, in the Name of Jesus, heal the sick in the same way He did.   The important point about this is that it has to be genuinely in the Name of Jesus (not just saying in the form of lip service), and not in one's own name as many television healing evangelists do.  Advertising a preacher as "God's man of faith and power" is actually saying that he is ministering healing in his own name and not really in the Name of Jesus.  Also, hero worshiping a special ministry as if the man (William Branham or Oral Roberts) were special people who God endowed something different from ordinary believers, implies that the man is also ministering healing in his own name.  I think this is why many don't get healed under ministries that are the object of hero worship.   But many healings have taken place through some unknown person without any reputation of a healing ministry, but has authentically ministered healing in the Name of Jesus, and the results have happened.

Do you have an independent study that shows that Isaiah 53: was fulfilled in Mathew 8:16,17

I do not question what happened in Matthew 8:16,17,

or John 14:12, or that people are healed in the name of Jesus Christ, I have no problem with that. 

My objection is that "by his stripes we are healed" is fulfilled in Mathew 8:16,17.

Because reading Isaiah 53: its obvious that it cannot be. 

 

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • You are coming up higher in this season – above the assignments of character assassination and verbal arrows sent to manage you, contain you, and derail your purpose. Where you have had your dreams and sleep robbed, as well as your peace and clarity robbed – leaving you feeling foggy, confused, and heavy – God is, right now, bringing freedom back -- now you will clearly see the smoke and mirrors that were set to distract you and you will disengage.

      Right now God is declaring a "no access zone" around you, and your enemies will no longer have any entry point into your life. Oil is being poured over you to restore the years that the locust ate and give you back your passion. This is where you will feel a fresh roar begin to erupt from your inner being, and a call to leave the trenches behind and begin your odyssey in your Christ calling moving you to bear fruit that remains as you minister to and disciple others into their Christ identity.

      This is where you leave the trenches and scale the mountain to fight from a different place, from victory, from peace, and from rest. Now watch as God leads you up higher above all the noise, above all the chaos, and shows you where you have been seated all along with Him in heavenly places where you are UNTOUCHABLE. This is where you leave the soul fight, and the mind battle, and learn to fight differently.

      You will know how to live like an eagle and lead others to the same place of safety and protection that God led you to, which broke you out of the silent prison you were in. Put your war boots on and get ready to fight back! Refuse to lay down -- get out of bed and rebuke what is coming at you. Remember where you are seated and live from that place.

      Acts 1:8 - “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses … to the end of the earth.”

       

      ALBERT FINCH MINISTRY
        • Thanks
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 3 replies
    • George Whitten, the visionary behind Worthy Ministries and Worthy News, explores the timing of the Simchat Torah War in Israel. Is this a water-breaking moment? Does the timing of the conflict on October 7 with Hamas signify something more significant on the horizon?

       



      This was a message delivered at Eitz Chaim Congregation in Dallas Texas on February 3, 2024.

      To sign up for our Worthy Brief -- https://worthybrief.com

      Be sure to keep up to date with world events from a Christian perspective by visiting Worthy News -- https://www.worthynews.com

      Visit our live blogging channel on Telegram -- https://t.me/worthywatch
      • 0 replies
    • Understanding the Enemy!

      I thought I write about the flip side of a topic, and how to recognize the attempts of the enemy to destroy lives and how you can walk in His victory!

      For the Apostle Paul taught us not to be ignorant of enemy's tactics and strategies.

      2 Corinthians 2:112  Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. 

      So often, we can learn lessons by learning and playing "devil's" advocate.  When we read this passage,

      Mar 3:26  And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. 
      Mar 3:27  No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strongman; and then he will spoil his house. 

      Here we learn a lesson that in order to plunder one's house you must first BIND up the strongman.  While we realize in this particular passage this is referring to God binding up the strongman (Satan) and this is how Satan's house is plundered.  But if you carefully analyze the enemy -- you realize that he uses the same tactics on us!  Your house cannot be plundered -- unless you are first bound.   And then Satan can plunder your house!

      ... read more
        • Oy Vey!
        • Praise God!
        • Thanks
        • Well Said!
        • Brilliant!
        • Loved it!
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 230 replies
    • Daniel: Pictures of the Resurrection, Part 3

      Shalom everyone,

      As we continue this study, I'll be focusing on Daniel and his picture of the resurrection and its connection with Yeshua (Jesus). 

      ... read more
        • Praise God!
        • Brilliant!
        • Loved it!
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 13 replies
    • Abraham and Issac: Pictures of the Resurrection, Part 2
      Shalom everyone,

      As we continue this series the next obvious sign of the resurrection in the Old Testament is the sign of Isaac and Abraham.

      Gen 22:1  After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."
      Gen 22:2  He said, "Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."

      So God "tests" Abraham and as a perfect picture of the coming sacrifice of God's only begotten Son (Yeshua - Jesus) God instructs Issac to go and sacrifice his son, Issac.  Where does he say to offer him?  On Moriah -- the exact location of the Temple Mount.

      ...read more
        • Well Said!
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 20 replies
×
×
  • Create New...