Our Generation's "Tower of Babel"

[Matthew Umbarger]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

The 'on this rock' thing. It totally detracts from the soberness of the situation and presumes Peter is pope. On this rock - THERE IS A HUG ROCK right there at the foot of Mt Hermon. That is the rock and the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. Ground zero for Yeshua's church is right there at the entrance to the cosmological abys.

The place is where the Zeus, Pan and other deity worship altars are seen.

Oh. Thank you for the clarification. I understand your point now.

That is certainly an interesting, and unique interpretation. I am sure that I have never heard that Jesus was referring to a literal rock when He said that ....

[other one]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Only if you have a simple version that comes with sentences that explain along the way.  Every thing of God is run with an order and follows laws, even the random stuff. 

For me it has more to do with the vibration of light and how the physical body sees less than the spiritual one, one of the needs for the change to incorruption.  

So I went and looked at an article and what I came away with,  was that when the atomic and subatomic particles are vibrated at a high rate they form little strings by that motion.  Don't think that is right because I can't put those two things together.      

It is my understanding that the strings are subatomic particles that are vibrating...    different vibration rates puts these strings into different dimensions.    Since matter is mainly open space between atomic level particles two dimensions can exist in the same space, but they seldom affect each other.    According to "M" String Physics that I spent some time trying to get a handle on, the different dimensions have different physical laws.    An example of the fifth dimension would be possible to be in two places at the same instant, or in a single place in two different time instances.   Those things change and grow as you move up the number of dimensions and by the time you get to God's level at 10 or possibly above, there technically is no time for you can be in all places at a near infinite instances of time.     Basically God's ability to see all of time at the same time...    and be anywhere/everywhere all the time.

It's is theoretical physics which is where the math comes in, but it puts a realistic touch to how the heavens work.  And to me personally it adds to the probability that God really does exist and the things written in the Bible are not just figments of someone's imagination.   Add that to walking among the dark side for a number of years and having the Holy Spirit come to the rescue sort of takes my personal beliefs a bit beyond just faith.

We can't access the heavenly dimensions for we can't transition into the higher vibrational existence.

How do our spirits become involved? I don't know enough details about what that is to place it into the mix.   I'm working on that.   

It would be helpful if we knew exactly what it is that is given to us at conception that makes the spirit of man.    I think we will most likely have to wait for Jesus to come back to understand all that.    But, it is fascinating to ponder.

[Starise]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Only if you have a simple version that comes with sentences that explain along the way.  Every thing of God is run with an order and follows laws, even the random stuff. 

For me it has more to do with the vibration of light and how the physical body sees less than the spiritual one, one of the needs for the change to incorruption.  

So I went and looked at an article and what I came away with,  was that when the atomic and subatomic particles are vibrated at a high rate they form little strings by that motion.  Don't think that is right because I can't put those two things together.      

I have to say this all sounds very "new agey" vibrations, frequencies, lengths of light. Reminds me of the way some of them claim to see auras of different colors around people. I believe some of this is probably advanced science from fallen elohim, fallen angels, all tied to something quasi religious.

Of course this is getting off topic if I go much further. Not insinuating you are new age. Please don't think that. Sounds like maybe you've read about some of it.

While I seriously don't believe the Bible is a scientific book we can glean  good science from it . God does things that he isn't obligated to tell us how He does them. Nor would we, at this point, understand it if He did. On the other hand, fallen elohim may have no such inhibitions if it somehow furthers their agenda which is to fight until the very end. They lost the war. Does not mean they can't win a bunch of battles along the way to frustrate the enemy. As Micheal Heiser says they will keep "kicking the can" down the road for as long as they are able. No sense entertaining the idea they will be saved. They are destined for hell. What do they have to loose?

IF a person has some study into  sub atomic structures at the very microscopic level they know all about this. I know very little except to say that density starts to look much less dense at  sub atomic levels. A chair is simply a bunch of dense atoms that can be manipulated at the sub atomic level hence the theory held by a few we are all living in an artificial construction held together by forces we can't see. The Bible DOES say the things which are seen are controlled by the things which are unseen. From this perspective, everything you see can be disassembled in ways you probably couldn't imagine. There is probably some truth to some of this IMHO.

Walls found around the world are beyond the abilities of structural engineers now, let alone ancient peoples that lived thousands of years ago. Built to tolerances unattainable on this scale even now. Rocks weighing hundreds of tons were moved and joined. Often described as "melted" at the joints because the joints were apparently heated in some way hot enough to melt rock.

WE have many examples of this all around the world. My theory on it is it was fallen angels using what they knew or telling men how to do it since no one today can duplicate it.

Was this how the Tower Of Babel started? We may never know this side of heaven, but for me it's an interesting thing to ponder.

 

[Matthew Umbarger]

27 minutes ago, other one said:

It is my understanding that the strings are subatomic particles that are vibrating...    different vibration rates puts these strings into different dimensions.    Since matter is mainly open space between atomic level particles two dimensions can exist in the same space, but they seldom affect each other.    According to "M" String Physics that I spent some time trying to get a handle on, the different dimensions have different physical laws.    An example of the fifth dimension would be possible to be in two places at the same instant, or in a single place in two different time instances.   Those things change and grow as you move up the number of dimensions and by the time you get to God's level at 10 or possibly above, there technically is no time for you can be in all places at a near infinite instances of time.     Basically God's ability to see all of time at the same time...    and be anywhere/everywhere all the time.

It's is theoretical physics which is where the math comes in, but it puts a realistic touch to how the heavens work.  And to me personally it adds to the probability that God really does exist and the things written in the Bible are not just figments of someone's imagination.   Add that to walking among the dark side for a number of years and having the Holy Spirit come to the rescue sort of takes my personal beliefs a bit beyond just faith.

We can't access the heavenly dimensions for we can't transition into the higher vibrational existence.

How do our spirits become involved? I don't know enough details about what that is to place it into the mix.   I'm working on that.   

It would be helpful if we knew exactly what it is that is given to us at conception that makes the spirit of man.    I think we will most likely have to wait for Jesus to come back to understand all that.    But, it is fascinating to ponder.

See, I think of spirit/s in less concrete terms. A spirit is a rational life principle participating in God's image and likeness. So, my cactus has a botanical soul, my dog has an animal soul, and I have a spiritual soul, meaning that the life principle specific to me will live forever, is capable of making moral decisions, can carry on rational thought, and, by God's grace, participates in the divine nature. But at its root, my spirit is simply what animates my body. 

The mystery is how there can be bodiless spirits like angels. But this does seem to be the testimony of Scripture, as DeighAnn shared above. It is a mystery because the only kind of life that we have direct experience with is bodily life.

I think we will have to cordially disagree about the relevance of physics for all of this.

[Matthew Umbarger]

21 minutes ago, Starise said:

I have to say this all sounds very "new agey" vibrations, frequencies, lengths of light. Reminds me of the way some of them claim to see auras of different colors around people. I believe some of this is probably advanced science from fallen elohim, fallen angels, all tied to something quasi religious.

It reminds me of Chuck Missler, who has been shown to rely on and plagiarize New Age sources.

See here.

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, other one said:

It is my understanding that the strings are subatomic particles that are vibrating...    different vibration rates puts these strings into different dimensions.    Since matter is mainly open space between atomic level particles two dimensions can exist in the same space, but they seldom affect each other.    According to "M" String Physics that I spent some time trying to get a handle on, the different dimensions have different physical laws.    An example of the fifth dimension would be possible to be in two places at the same instant, or in a single place in two different time instances.   Those things change and grow as you move up the number of dimensions and by the time you get to God's level at 10 or possibly above, there technically is no time for you can be in all places at a near infinite instances of time.     Basically God's ability to see all of time at the same time...    and be anywhere/everywhere all the time.

It's is theoretical physics which is where the math comes in, but it puts a realistic touch to how the heavens work.  And to me personally it adds to the probability that God really does exist and the things written in the Bible are not just figments of someone's imagination.   Add that to walking among the dark side for a number of years and having the Holy Spirit come to the rescue sort of takes my personal beliefs a bit beyond just faith.

We can't access the heavenly dimensions for we can't transition into the higher vibrational existence.

How do our spirits become involved? I don't know enough details about what that is to place it into the mix.   I'm working on that.   

It would be helpful if we knew exactly what it is that is given to us at conception that makes the spirit of man.    I think we will most likely have to wait for Jesus to come back to understand all that.    But, it is fascinating to ponder.

What is it called when you go from 'believing and having faith' to 'absolutely positive, not a string of doubt'?  I believe that it is FACT.  There was an Adam, Eve and so on and we will meet them.  I believe it is more 'REAL' than what we are living now.  I think of my life in this flesh as no more than 'a dream' from my real life with the Lord.  

I think more was 'taken' from us at birth than given, as in our memory.  How else could we be born innocent to make our own choice between  'I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live'.  (Like the Holy Spirit came from heaven and the virgin Mary conceived Christ and we don't understand the 'mechanics' of how it takes place, but I don't believe is that far from how we are put into the flesh.  Our 'spirit' or 'soul' (maybe takes the form of a 'string') and the flesh is knit around us.  PURE SPECULATION  here). 

But a big clue is given us about our beginning with 

Genesis 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

Genesis 28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

If you can 'see' that.  God gives us second witnesses with little hints along the way for those looking to confirm these things, one of the places is Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

God gave it, we return to Him.  Though it seems straight forward and simple to me, it doesn't seem to be to everyone but I have no 'doctrines or beliefs' that need it to say one thing or the other.  I believe the Word is ever expanding and when we try to lock it down to where we are in knowledge now, we don't get to receive more from God.  

I think what you wrote about that string theory follows along the same path as my 'light' vibrating different for the different dimensions.  I don't think on it much as I have found nothing in the Word that leads me to find more.  NOT SAYING it isn't in there, just saying God hasn't given me 'those eyes' yet.  If it is important for some part of my journey He will, till then I just accept there are these two worlds running concurrent, one of which I don't get to see till I get to go back.  

Thank you for that excellent summary, excellent because I could follow what you were saying.  Exactly what I asked for!!!

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Starise said:

Of course this is getting off topic if I go much further. Not insinuating you are new age. Please don't think that. Sounds like maybe you've read about some of it.

No, I have never read a book or listened to a program on new age, just heard someone mention light and sound and vibrations (and now I read that paragraph or two on the string).  

It just made me think of our two worlds being so close yet so far.  That is the extent.  Just so you know, as I would want to.  

[Starise]

7 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

No, I have never read a book or listened to a program on new age, just heard someone mention light and sound and vibrations (and now I read that paragraph or two on the string).  

It just made me think of our two worlds being so close yet so far.  That is the extent.  Just so you know, as I would want to.  

I'll be honest. I have read some of their materials. Not because I want to be anything but Christian. I looked at it to see what it was about. I found it almost nauseating.

[Dennis1209]

19 hours ago, Matthew Umbarger said:

They have a quandary. Jesus said that angels do not marry nor are they taken in marriage. But here you have a story about angels that seem to do just that.

Interesting conversation. It says they don't, not that they cannot; and I assume these angels spoken of here are the non fallen angels. We know that angels are spirits (elohim), angels can assume physical flesh, speak, drink and eat if they choose to do so. 

Studying all the details of the "seed" of the Serpent is also an eye opener... It is difficult with some biblical concepts, to determine literal from; a metaphor, allusion or symbolic. I guess that's why scholars coined that 50 cent word "hermeneutics?"

[DeighAnn]

42 minutes ago, Starise said:

I'll be honest. I have read some of their materials. Not because I want to be anything but Christian. I looked at it to see what it was about. I found it almost nauseating.

I THINK I read SOMEWHERE, something in the Bible that said 'don't learn about that stuff' but can't find it,  SO I can't be positive, SO I just don't just in case, but that is just me.