Consider yourself dead to sin

[Desopixi Seilynam]

What shall we say then, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

Certainly not, how shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Our old man is crucified with Christ, that the body of of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Neither present your members as weapons of unrighteousness unto sin:
but present yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead,
and your members as weapons of righteousness unto God.

For sin shall not have dominion over you:
for you are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? Certainly not.

Don't you know that to whom you yield yourselves, his servants you are, whoever you obey,
whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

When you were the servants of sin, you were free from righteousness.

What fruit did you have then in those things whereof you are now ashamed?
For the end of those things is death. 

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God
you have your fruit unto holiness, and the end Everlasting Life.

-------

That's generally Romans 6.

And then you want me to believe that in Romans 7 Paul then says that we will always have personal sin? 

He immediately contradicts himself in the next chapter? Or is something fishy going on?

So for right now let's skip chapter 7 and see that the thoughts and conclusions from chapter 6 continue.

We'll come back to chapter 7.

-------

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2

Paul in the first half of Romans chapter 8 is telling us How we are free from sin, the hashing out of it,
which is that we have the Holy Spirit and therefore by following the Spirit we overcome the flesh.

 

That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh,
but after the Spirit.

They that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you.
Now if any man does not have the Spirit of Christ, then none of this applies to him.
(that man needs to first hear the word and believe it to receive the Spirit: Galatians 3:2, Romans 10:17)

And if Christ is inside of you, the body is dead because of sin,
but the Spirit is life because of righteousness (the perfect righteousness of Christ)

BUT if the Spirit of Him that raised up Christ from the dead is inside of you,
He that raised up Christ will also revive your mortal bodies by His Spirit that is in you.

THEREFORE, brethren, we are Not debtors to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if you live after the flesh you shall die,
but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the flesh you shall live.

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Romans 8:4-14

We get more explanation in Galatians:

For the fruit of the Spirit is love joy peace patience kindness goodness faithfulness meekness and self control.
And they that belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. Galatians 5:22-24.

 

It is by the Holy Spirit that we overcome the flesh, Paul in Galatians clearly declares that sincere believers do crucify the flesh, now.

Paul is preaching that we do overcome personal sin, not that we stay stuck in personal sin. 
From all this context it becomes clear that Romans 7 has been messed with.

Clearly in Chapter 6 and 8 of Romans the idea is that we can overcome sin, not that we will always have sin,
but rather that we are dead to it. "we are not debtors to the flesh to live after the flesh"

Yet many preach that we are debtors to the flesh, 
they preach such messages based on a focus on one of the clear twistings of Paul's words that persists to this day.

Let us now examine Romans 7.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were aroused by the Torah,
did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.  

[Remember that Paul said do not yield your members to sin; Rom 6:13]

But now you are delivered from the Torah, that being dead wherein we were held;
that (now being freed) we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

(we are following the spirit of the Torah instead of the letter, not a list of rules to check,
the understanding of the summary of those rules: sincere love, as Christ and Paul taught.
    [Matthew 7:12, John 15:12, Romans 13:8-10, 1 Corinthians 13]
 Such is the direction of the Spirit, and as we follow, our flesh based sin will subside. [Galatians 5:14-24])

Paul then describes how it was under a rigid list of rules and under sin, in the flesh,
and then goes on to speak of our victory over the flesh via the Spirit.

The good that I want to do I do not, and the evil which I don't want to do, I do.
Now if I do that which I don't want to do, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.

I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind,
and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
So then with the mind I my conscious self serve the law of God,
but with the flesh the law of sin.

Oh wretched man that I am! Who shall save me from this body of death?

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Because the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin
and therefore free from death.  Romans 7:19 through 8:2

See how well that flows? Paul is clearly saying that the Spirit makes us free from the law of sin.

He is not saying that we will always be conflicted by the flesh.

Clearly the context of chapter 6 and  8:2-14, and Galatians 5:22-24
make clear that the above translation of 7:23 through 8:2 is correct.

The normal translation is twisted, the enemy wants us to believe we will always be conflicted by the flesh now,
so they also have to edit 8:1 taking out "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit",
but verse 2 still makes clear the victory we have over the flesh via the Spirit.
That is clearly Paul's point, he describes the conflict, that is aroused by the law,
but then the indwelling Spirit makes believers free from being debtors to the flesh.

And nothing will separate us, who live after the Spirit, from the love of God.

God does not desire that any of us believers should perish,
but that all believers should come to the knowledge of repentance away from their personal sin, by His Spirit.
 

 

 

 

 

[Guest clancy]

God , is the only one who can forgive and save us, as soon as we are His, “ born again”, that’s it, we are set free from sin, he sees that no more.

We start our relationship with God...He now recognises us, the Holy Spirit dwells within us, we are a new creation ,we have a new heart, our minds will be renewed, there will be a battle between flesh and spirit ,but the Lord will bring us into line, make no mistake ,he is an amazing Father,..there is no darkness for those who are in Christ, we start to hate sin and change is very notable in a born again.....your friends notice, people are drawn to you..

But....it’s “ Not You” that they are drawn to....it’s the Lord in you, that they are drawn to.

 

Sorry, that was a testimony, but felt the Lord leading me to share.....in Jesus Name...Amen!.

 

My belief....if the Lord dwells in your heart......there is no darkness...he cannot dwell in darkness....the old sinful nature, is now being dealt with by God...

Edited February 25, 2021 by clancy

[Michael37]

A flat car battery is dead . . . you get nothing from it. The exhortation is for us to be likewise with regard to sin, - dead, so that it gets nothing from us. 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

58 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

A flat car battery is dead . . . you get nothing from it. The exhortation is for us to be likewise with regard to sin, - dead, so that it gets nothing from us. 

Like a dead battery, when started, startled, tempted, it doesn't go.

[Not me]

Hi, if you wouldn’t mind me putting forth a thought; 

~all struggle with sin instantly stops with one’s death...~

Therefore scripture puts forth the truth;

‘he that has died is freed from sin’...

For it is to the degree one enters into their death in Christ (which is done by faith) to that degree will they walk in newness of life (free from sin) ...

(as so my relationship with Christ has taught me thus far).... 

Be blessed as we learn Christ...

A fellow believer, Not me 

[Duck]

2 Thess 5:23-24 (especially v.24)

[Michael37]

11 hours ago, Duck said:

2 Thess 5:23-24 (especially v.24)

Since there are only 3 chapters in 2 Thessalonians you want 1 Thessalonians, Duck.

1Th 5:23-24  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.  (24)  Faithful is he that calls you, who also will do it.

Yes, I believe I am sanctified entirely or wholly whenever I repent and confess any and every and all sin.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

23 hours ago, Not me said:

For it is to the degree one enters into their death in Christ (which is done by faith) to that degree will they walk in newness of life (free from sin) ...

It is of faith, believing that an actual invisible Spirit is inside of you, The Holy Spirit of Almighty God, literally inside of you.
Empowering you to have self control and live holy and righteous. The death and resurrection of Christ made the Holy Spirit available to all who would believe. 

[Not me]

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

It is of faith, believing that an actual invisible Spirit is inside of you, The Holy Spirit of Almighty God, literally inside of you.
Empowering you to have self control and live holy and righteous. The death and resurrection of Christ made the Holy Spirit available to all who would believe. 

As Christ so teaches you Himself be blessed...

A fellow servant of His, Not me 

[Whyme]

On 2/25/2021 at 3:17 AM, Desopixi Seilynam said:

What shall we say then, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

Certainly not, how shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Our old man is crucified with Christ, that the body of of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Neither present your members as weapons of unrighteousness unto sin:
but present yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead,
and your members as weapons of righteousness unto God.

For sin shall not have dominion over you:
for you are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? Certainly not.

Don't you know that to whom you yield yourselves, his servants you are, whoever you obey,
whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

When you were the servants of sin, you were free from righteousness.

What fruit did you have then in those things whereof you are now ashamed?
For the end of those things is death. 

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God
you have your fruit unto holiness, and the end Everlasting Life.

-------

That's generally Romans 6.

And then you want me to believe that in Romans 7 Paul then says that we will always have personal sin? 

He immediately contradicts himself in the next chapter? Or is something fishy going on?

So for right now let's skip chapter 7 and see that the thoughts and conclusions from chapter 6 continue.

We'll come back to chapter 7.

-------

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2

Paul in the first half of Romans chapter 8 is telling us How we are free from sin, the hashing out of it,
which is that we have the Holy Spirit and therefore by following the Spirit we overcome the flesh.

 

That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh,
but after the Spirit.

They that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you.
Now if any man does not have the Spirit of Christ, then none of this applies to him.
(that man needs to first hear the word and believe it to receive the Spirit: Galatians 3:2, Romans 10:17)

And if Christ is inside of you, the body is dead because of sin,
but the Spirit is life because of righteousness (the perfect righteousness of Christ)

BUT if the Spirit of Him that raised up Christ from the dead is inside of you,
He that raised up Christ will also revive your mortal bodies by His Spirit that is in you.

THEREFORE, brethren, we are Not debtors to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if you live after the flesh you shall die,
but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the flesh you shall live.

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Romans 8:4-14

We get more explanation in Galatians:

For the fruit of the Spirit is love joy peace patience kindness goodness faithfulness meekness and self control.
And they that belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. Galatians 5:22-24.

 

It is by the Holy Spirit that we overcome the flesh, Paul in Galatians clearly declares that sincere believers do crucify the flesh, now.

Paul is preaching that we do overcome personal sin, not that we stay stuck in personal sin. 
From all this context it becomes clear that Romans 7 has been messed with.

Clearly in Chapter 6 and 8 of Romans the idea is that we can overcome sin, not that we will always have sin,
but rather that we are dead to it. "we are not debtors to the flesh to live after the flesh"

Yet many preach that we are debtors to the flesh, 
they preach such messages based on a focus on one of the clear twistings of Paul's words that persists to this day.

Let us now examine Romans 7.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were aroused by the Torah,
did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.  

[Remember that Paul said do not yield your members to sin; Rom 6:13]

But now you are delivered from the Torah, that being dead wherein we were held;
that (now being freed) we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

(we are following the spirit of the Torah instead of the letter, not a list of rules to check,
the understanding of the summary of those rules: sincere love, as Christ and Paul taught.
    [Matthew 7:12, John 15:12, Romans 13:8-10, 1 Corinthians 13]
 Such is the direction of the Spirit, and as we follow, our flesh based sin will subside. [Galatians 5:14-24])

Paul then describes how it was under a rigid list of rules and under sin, in the flesh,
and then goes on to speak of our victory over the flesh via the Spirit.

The good that I want to do I do not, and the evil which I don't want to do, I do.
Now if I do that which I don't want to do, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.

I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind,
and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
So then with the mind I my conscious self serve the law of God,
but with the flesh the law of sin.

Oh wretched man that I am! Who shall save me from this body of death?

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Because the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin
and therefore free from death.  Romans 7:19 through 8:2

See how well that flows? Paul is clearly saying that the Spirit makes us free from the law of sin.

He is not saying that we will always be conflicted by the flesh.

Clearly the context of chapter 6 and  8:2-14, and Galatians 5:22-24
make clear that the above translation of 7:23 through 8:2 is correct.

The normal translation is twisted, the enemy wants us to believe we will always be conflicted by the flesh now,
so they also have to edit 8:1 taking out "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit",
but verse 2 still makes clear the victory we have over the flesh via the Spirit.
That is clearly Paul's point, he describes the conflict, that is aroused by the law,
but then the indwelling Spirit makes believers free from being debtors to the flesh.

And nothing will separate us, who live after the Spirit, from the love of God.

God does not desire that any of us believers should perish,
but that all believers should come to the knowledge of repentance away from their personal sin, by His Spirit.
 

 

 

 

 

Long post, ill get back to it after this question? If the body of sin is destroyed why does Paul say that he wants their body to be blameless? 1 Thessalonians 5:23