Justified by Faith vs. Works or Faith and Works

[Marathoner]

5 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Be ready, in season and out of season, to witness to the hope that lies within you.

No magic pill. No magic performance. No nothing except Belief and Loyalty. Then opportunities will present.

There was nothing you could do morally to obtain Salvation and therefore there is nothing you may do immorally that will UN-save you.

Just Believe and do not waver.

Beautifully expressed. We are a work in progress --- the Lord's handiwork --- and while we learn and continue to grow, the Lord into whose hand we are committed is faithful to finish that work. There's profit in examining ourselves but care should be taken to avoid that snare of the fowler, a morbid fixation upon our shortcomings and failures. The warning of the Lord to our enemies:

Do not lie in ambush, you wicked person, against the home of the righteous;
Do not destroy his resting place;
For a righteous person falls seven times and rises again,
But the wicked stumble in time of disaster.
(Proverbs 24:15-16 NASB)

More to that than meets the eye.  

I'll express it this way: when I saw that I erred and fell, I cried out to the Lord to destroy me for I was a horrible man undeserving of His mercy and love. I blew it, I failed! To this the Lord said, I shall not destroy you, for you will never taste death. Rise and stand upon your feet, and listen to My words; let us reason together. 

The morbid avenue misses the mark every time.  

[Marathoner]

For those who, like me, cried out in despair in such a way to the Lord, know that we are in good company. When Elijah fled from Jezebel he traveled into the wilderness and asked the Lord to take his life. 

But he himself went a day’s journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a broom tree; and he asked for himself to die, and said, “Enough! Now, Lord, take my life, for I am no better than my fathers.” Then he lay down and fell asleep under a broom tree; but behold, there was an angel touching him, and he said to him, “Arise, eat!” And he looked, and behold, there was at his head a round loaf of bread baked on hot coals, and a pitcher of water. So he ate and drank, and lay down again.
(1 Kings 19:4-6)

We're not the only ones.  

[Riverwalker]

58 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

I'll express it this way: when I saw that I erred and fell, I cried out to the Lord to destroy me for I was a horrible man undeserving of His mercy and love. I blew it, I failed! To this the Lord said, I shall not destroy you, for you will never taste death. Rise and stand upon your feet, and listen to My words; let us reason together. 

The morbid avenue misses the mark every time.  

Excellent! No God is not standing over us with a hammer waiting for us to fail, any more than a father who runs along side his child riding a bike for the first time so that he can berate him if he falls. 

 

God has already given us everything, through Jesus Christ, we do not have to earn it.

2nd Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,

[john1]

7 hours ago, Unit 11 said:

if you're not doing your part witnessing, you're not saved. 

What if a person is witnessing, but it's not true.

James chapter 3 verse 1,2

3 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. ² We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.

[john1]

7 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

There was nothing you could do morally to obtain Salvation and therefore there is nothing you may do immorally that will UN-save you.

I believe you can be selfish, and not be saved.

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8

Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
James chapter 2 verse 13

because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

6 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

You misrepresented the whole thing

Ephesians 2:. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Every bible writer agrees, we are saved by grace through faith, not of good works, but TO good works. James is saying if you say your saved, but nothing in your life shows, your faith is dead and so are you.

Salvation is not earned by us, it was earned by Jesus on the cross. We can do nothing to be be more deserving of his Grace. When you are (truly) saved, your life is changed, you are made new and you have salvation. Its already given to you. We do not do works, out of requirement, we do them because it pleases the Lord and it blesses us

You said every bible writer (author) agrees...can  you show me an author other than Paul's writings that God requires nothing on our part?  I have given you a host of other NT authors that say otherwise in my OP (Jesus, Peter, John, James).  The bibles says truth is established by two or more witnesses.  Even Jesus said if he came testifying own his own behalf without being validated by Moses and the Prophets (Scriptures) that his testimony is false (John 5.31-39).  We must apply that same concept to all NT authors to include Paul's writings.  We must evaluate doctrine with the entirety of Scriptures not just one author or we are intentionally deceiving ourselves.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Willa]

The Greek word for faith is the same as the word believe, but one is a noun and the other is a verb.  They are virtually the same word.  The word believe implies action, as verbs are action words.  The point I am making is that genuine Holy Spirit inspired faith motivates action.  That action may be to read the Bible and pray, or it may be to help those in need.  Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and where He is at work, something happens.

It is not faith or works, it is faith that works.

We are not speaking of intellectual belief in which He remains out there somewhere and a pet philosophy to be bandied about. Head knowledge doesn't produce a familiar relationship with God.

[Willa]

11 hours ago, Unit 11 said:

How do we know when we've witnessed enough? Per month, week, day, hour? Or is asking this question out of line, because it shows we don't care about the lost--we only want to do the required amount and no more?

2. If we've done other works, say, sharing with the less fortunate, playing fair with others, never profiting unjustly at someone else's expense, minding the Golden Rule etc.--but we're not witnessing--does that invalidate all the good works we have done? 

It is true that we are filled with the Holy Spirit to receive power to witness.  I believe that all genuine Christians do witness, but often without our knowing it.  Our life styles and whatever comes out of our mouths is a witness, and often God uses it mightily to convict others.  We don't cuss or run out on our spouse, for instance.  This causes those who do to strike out against us.  

As far as leading people to Christ, that is sort of the same thing.  We may not read a tract to them or lead them through a prayer, but something we say may still motivate them to cry out to God.  Meanwhile, we can always testify to others of an answered prayer or how God led us to believe.  We can ask them if they would like us to pray for their need.  (I prefer to do that on the spot).  

I guess we never do these things enough, but we are not under legal obligation to do so.  It just comes out of the joy and overflowing Spirit in us.  Perhaps you were called to pray for peoples ears and eyes to be opened to the truth.  Perhaps you were called to pray for the one who is witnessing.  We just need to be faithful to do whatever God is calling us to do.

[Riverwalker]

3 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

You said every bible writer (author) agrees...can  you show me an author other than Paul's writings that God requires nothing on our part?  I have given you a host of other NT authors that say otherwise in my OP (Jesus, Peter, John, James).  The bibles says truth is established by two or more witnesses.  Even Jesus said if he came testifying own his own behalf without being validated by Moses and the Prophets (Scriptures) that his testimony is false (John 5.31-39).  We must apply that same concept to all NT authors to include Paul's writings.  We must evaluate doctrine with the entirety of Scriptures not just one author or we are intentionally deceiving ourselves.

How's Jesus suit you

John 3:16  16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

I was interested in seeing how you would respond. 

 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

15 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

How's Jesus suit you

John 3:16  16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

I was interested in seeing how you would respond. 

 

Read the rest of the passage in context:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ... And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. - Jhn 3:16, 19-21 KJV

In context it says we must be willing to come to the light so we can have our deeds/works exposed and reproved (corrected) so that we can do what is right in God's sight.   

Its not some mental acknowledgement that saves but our coming to him in humility and having him expose our sin and correct our sinful behavior. True faith has works.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. - Mat 5:20 KJV

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Jedi4Yahweh