In HEAVEN, in HEAVENLY BODIES, living with CHRIST, RIGHT NOW

[Diaste]

On 7/23/2021 at 9:59 PM, DeighAnn said:

HOW CAN ONE LIVE FOREVER IF THERE IS A SLEEP/DEATH that takes place?  

Jesus died and lives forever.

"“Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, the Living One. I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever!" Rev 1

 

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Jesus died and lives forever.

"“Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, the Living One. I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever!" Rev 1

 

Hi Diaste,

Could you tell me how 'death' for a human was changed from before to after Christ died and rose?  

Thank you D

 

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi Diaste,

Could you tell me how 'death' for a human was changed from before to after Christ died and rose?  

Thank you D

 

Did it? Hasn't it always been Jesus since the beginning? Always grace, always through Jesus and Him alone, since forever? 

I never considered it any different.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Did it? Hasn't it always been Jesus since the beginning? Always grace, always through Jesus and Him alone, since forever? 

I never considered it any different.

Hi D,

On the one hand YES, on the other hand, no. Before Christ came Gods people were under the law.  WHAT the law could not do, that GRACE could, was GIVE life, forgiveness, salvation.  

THOSE who were not perfect under the 'law' died and there was a consequence for that, correct?  Break one broke them all.  Either perfect or not even close.  

Under the OLD Law,  the closest (figure of speech) you could come to dying 'under grace' was if you died while or shortly after confession and repentance and had just slain/shed the blood of a perfect sacrifice not that that blood could even compare (i digress)

Let me ask it a different way. 

WHAT is the difference today between dying WITH FAITH and dying without FAITH?   And is there any difference between the times under the law and under grace?  

 

1 Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

1 Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1 Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.


1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

THEM SLEEPING BECAUSE 'SIN' CAUSED THEIR DEATH.  Now they have been washed clean.   WHY CONTINUE SLEEPING.  Death/sin has lost its' hold.  Where as those who were sleeping were held there by sin, Sin being forgiven means no more hold.  No more hold means RISING Up, following the FIRST FRUIT, the FIRST that made all the rest possible.  

1  Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

WE STILL HAVE TO CHANGE BODIES TO GO TO THE PRESENCE OF GOD.  So the flesh has to die so that it can release the spirit.  

IF BY SIN DEATH COMES, WOULDN'T IT HAVE TO BE WHEN THAT SIN IS TAKEN AWAY LIFE RETURNS?

CAN THE SIN OF ADAM WHICH CAUSES THE 'SLEEP/DEATH' CONTINUE ON PAST/BE MORE POWERFUL/REMAIN IN EFFECT AFTER THE SACRIFICE OF CHRIST WHICH BRINGS FORGIVENESS OF SIN, 'ETERNAL LIFE'/NO SLEEPING?  

IF WE PASS THROUGH DEATH, DON'T WE PASS THROUGH 'SLEEP'?  

CAN WHAT SATAN CAUSED REMAIN AFTER WHAT JESUS CAUSED?  


1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

HAVEN'T we ALREADY 'died/slept' and risen when we are baptized?  If we have died to the flesh and become new creatures, HOW could the flesh dying CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT OUR LIVES EXCEPT FOR A CHANGE OF BODIES AND DIMENSION/REALM/WHATEVER IT'S CALLED.  


IS there really only a FIRST fruit of THEM THAT SLEPT?  Why stop there?  Why keep your fruits in the cursed earth?  Why keep them sleeping?  How much pleasure is there when your whole kingdom is 'sleeping'.  God doesn't seem to have a problem with space.  He has many mansions that the Messiah has gone on to prepare for us.  Why would we not use them?  And why oh why were the graves opened if not to show that AFTER THE FIRST FRUITS CAME THE OTHER FRUITS.  DEATH NO LONGER HAD A HOLD.  Christ was THE FIRST, not the ONLY.  

WE know that Enoch and Elijah were taken to heaven.  We know the bones of Moses can't be found so we can assume he was also.  We know the angel speaking with John was of our brethren the prophets.  Can you imagine Abraham just sleeping all this time to be raised same time as Hitler?  Seems Gods Kingdom would be pretty empty about now.  Who is going to make up the army returning with Christ if eveyone who has ever been is either alive or dead on the planet?  

So what does this last day resurrection look like?  Here comes Christ and all the souls rise and some go get behind Christ and others just stand there and then those who are alive on the earth and remain are changed and some just stand there and the rest go join those who have just gotten behind Christ and THEN WHAT?  Every knee bows and then all billions and billions of souls are 'programed' to do whatever?  In what world would that ever make any sense?  especially when you have the alternative of

Those who die go to paradise, staying AWARE of what is going on.  EVERYONE remains up to date with the events.  Instructions are given.  Battle plans are worked out.  The army returning all have instructions on where to go what to do and they come to earth and sure enough 5 minutes later the war is won and everyone does their jobs and law and order ensues.  

SURE God could put it in all the minds what to do, but why wait?  Why not have who you created and who you have spent so much time teaching and training not just do it themselves not only so YOU know who they are but THEY know who they are?  

OK, starting to get carried away.  So yes, I agree on the OVERALL comment as stated EXCEPT that Gods Plan is carried out and HE made the 'limits or laws' that are  placed even those truths so that His will BE DONE.   So what do you think?  Again, I Thank you... D

 

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by DeighAnn
ADD forgiveness of sin

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi D,

On the one hand YES, on the other hand, no. Before Christ came Gods people were under the law.  WHAT the law could not do, that GRACE could, was GIVE life, forgiveness, salvation.  

THOSE who were not perfect under the 'law' died and there was a consequence for that, correct?  Break one broke them all.  Either perfect or not even close.  

Under the OLD Law,  the closest (figure of speech) you could come to dying 'under grace' was if you died while or shortly after confession and repentance and had just slain/shed the blood of a perfect sacrifice not that that blood could even compare (i digress)

Let me ask it a different way. 

WHAT is the difference today between dying WITH FAITH and dying without FAITH?   And is there any difference between the times under the law and under grace?  

 

1 Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

1 Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1 Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.


1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

THEM SLEEPING BECAUSE 'SIN' CAUSED THEIR DEATH.  Now they have been washed clean.   WHY CONTINUE SLEEPING.  Death/sin has lost its' hold.  Where as those who were sleeping were held there by sin, Sin being forgiven means no more hold.  No more hold means RISING Up, following the FIRST FRUIT, the FIRST that made all the rest possible.  

1  Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

WE STILL HAVE TO CHANGE BODIES TO GO TO THE PRESENCE OF GOD.  So the flesh has to die so that it can release the spirit.  

IF BY SIN DEATH COMES, WOULDN'T IT HAVE TO BE WHEN THAT SIN IS TAKEN AWAY LIFE RETURNS?

CAN THE SIN OF ADAM WHICH CAUSES THE 'SLEEP/DEATH' CONTINUE ON PAST/BE MORE POWERFUL/REMAIN IN EFFECT AFTER THE SACRIFICE OF CHRIST WHICH BRINGS FORGIVENESS OF SIN, 'ETERNAL LIFE'/NO SLEEPING?  

IF WE PASS THROUGH DEATH, DON'T WE PASS THROUGH 'SLEEP'?  

CAN WHAT SATAN CAUSED REMAIN AFTER WHAT JESUS CAUSED?  


1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

HAVEN'T we ALREADY 'died/slept' and risen when we are baptized?  If we have died to the flesh and become new creatures, HOW could the flesh dying CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT OUR LIVES EXCEPT FOR A CHANGE OF BODIES AND DIMENSION/REALM/WHATEVER IT'S CALLED.  


IS there really only a FIRST fruit of THEM THAT SLEPT?  Why stop there?  Why keep your fruits in the cursed earth?  Why keep them sleeping?  How much pleasure is there when your whole kingdom is 'sleeping'.  God doesn't seem to have a problem with space.  He has many mansions that the Messiah has gone on to prepare for us.  Why would we not use them?  And why oh why were the graves opened if not to show that AFTER THE FIRST FRUITS CAME THE OTHER FRUITS.  DEATH NO LONGER HAD A HOLD.  Christ was THE FIRST, not the ONLY.  

WE know that Enoch and Elijah were taken to heaven.  We know the bones of Moses can't be found so we can assume he was also.  We know the angel speaking with John was of our brethren the prophets.  Can you imagine Abraham just sleeping all this time to be raised same time as Hitler?  Seems Gods Kingdom would be pretty empty about now.  Who is going to make up the army returning with Christ if eveyone who has ever been is either alive or dead on the planet?  

So what does this last day resurrection look like?  Here comes Christ and all the souls rise and some go get behind Christ and others just stand there and then those who are alive on the earth and remain are changed and some just stand there and the rest go join those who have just gotten behind Christ and THEN WHAT?  Every knee bows and then all billions and billions of souls are 'programed' to do whatever?  In what world would that ever make any sense?  especially when you have the alternative of

Those who die go to paradise, staying AWARE of what is going on.  EVERYONE remains up to date with the events.  Instructions are given.  Battle plans are worked out.  The army returning all have instructions on where to go what to do and they come to earth and sure enough 5 minutes later the war is won and everyone does their jobs and law and order ensues.  

SURE God could put it in all the minds what to do, but why wait?  Why not have who you created and who you have spent so much time teaching and training not just do it themselves not only so YOU know who they are but THEY know who they are?  

OK, starting to get carried away.  So yes, I agree on the OVERALL comment as stated EXCEPT that Gods Plan is carried out and HE made the 'limits or laws' that are  placed even those truths so that His will BE DONE.   So what do you think?  Again, I Thank you... D

For a lot of those questions one would have to know the mind of God and we just don't. I don't know why and we will have to wait to find out. Wondering why and trying to assemble a picture that seems reasonable isn't always possible. It also doesn't lead to an alternative explanation necessarily. 

Trust and patience will have to suffice in some things.

 

 

[DeighAnn]

On 7/25/2021 at 2:27 AM, Diaste said:

Jesus died and lives forever.

"“Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, the Living One. I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever!" Rev 1

 

Hi Diaste, 

Part of my problem is it seems so clear and  simple ON THE ONE HAND.  I also can't figure out what we were being told if everything was remaining as it always was.  Good and bad die, go into the ground wake up to be judged.  

Believer, non believer, heathen,   death just death.  
Only reason to TRY to follow Gods laws (for example only LORD) if ALL JUST DIE,  is to be judged IMMORTAL at the very end.  

SEEMS to me that is what everyone still believes today (except me and a couple others).  

SO WHY were the graves opened?  Why was Lazarus raised from the dead?     

If everyone already KNEW (except Sadds and heathen) what was the point of pointing it all out?  

Everyone knows we are raised 'at the last day', why make such a big deal our of God raising Jesus from the dead (for example only LORD, please forgive me) if NOTHING was changed?  (the topic being 'death')


Man, no sin, no death  ADAM

Man, sin, death.  FALLEN ADAM

Man, no sin, yet under the current 'LAW OF DEATH'.   JESUS  

 THE LAW OF DEATH FOR SIN HAS BEEN BROKEN BECAUSE DEATH HAS TAKEN SOMEONE WITHOUT SIN.  

DEATH itself sinned and 

what SATAN DIDN'T KNOW was that ONCE  that happened, it could never happen again.  

SO WHEN we take the Lord Jesus Christ as our SAVIOUR, we NO LONGER DIE IN SIN SO DEATH CAN'T HOLD US.  
 HIS RIGHTTEOUSNESS, COVERS OUR SIN SO THAT WE IN DEATH ARE  'A NON SINNER' 

 JUST LIKE JESUS

Took 3 days, I wonder why?

Something THE LAW could never do, glorious as it IS.  

AGAIN, 

DEATH COULDN'T KEEP JESUS IN DEATH AS HE WAS A NON SINNER, now DEATH CAN NO LONGER KEEP US 'IN DEATH' WHEN WE BECOME JUST LIKE JESUS, NON SINNERS. 
(AT LEAST THOSE OF US WHO HAVE TAKEN THE LORD AS OUR SAVIOUR)  

We have to remember,  Jesus did, in fact HAVE TO SUBMIT HIMSELF TO 'death' AS IT WAS STILL THE ORDER OF THE DAY.  
Why did HE do that?  FOR US.  Sinners who Don't want to be sinners

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned

No death until sin.  Death for all men for all have sinned..

SHOULD HAVE BEEN NO DEATH FOR JESUS. 


PROBABLY NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN,  HAD HE NOT HIMSELF  VOLUNTEERED, WILLINGLY SUBMITTED HIMSELF TO DEATH.  GAVE UP THE GHOST.  

Edited July 26, 2021 by DeighAnn
didn't hit the post button again

[Diaste]

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi Diaste, 

Part of my problem is it seems so clear and  simple ON THE ONE HAND.  I also can't figure out what we were being told if everything was remaining as it always was.  Good and bad die, go into the ground wake up to be judged.  

Believer, non believer, heathen,   death just death.  
Only reason to TRY to follow Gods laws (for example only LORD) if ALL JUST DIE,  is to be judged IMMORTAL at the very end.  

SEEMS to me that is what everyone still believes today (except me and a couple others).  

SO WHY were the graves opened?  Why was Lazarus raised from the dead?     

If everyone already KNEW (except Sadds and heathen) what was the point of pointing it all out?  

Everyone knows we are raised 'at the last day', why make such a big deal our of God raising Jesus from the dead (for example only LORD, please forgive me) if NOTHING was changed?  (the topic being 'death')

I don't think Jesus is teaching us about mortality verses immortality but that we are immortal souls trapped in flesh and where is that immortal soul going to spend eternity. 

“Do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” 

I would have to check but I'm not too sure there was a resurrection taught to Israel. Maybe there was and I just don't remember reading it. Seems to me the resurrection was a new teaching, or the revealing of a hidden teaching, and it needed to be revealed indisputably. 

But also the acts of Jesus showed the power of God. He didn't just come in word but in deed. Might be nothing more than proof positive that Jesus is God and has the power and there is no other deeper meaning.

I don't understand what you mean "if nothing changed" in relation to death. 

 

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Man, no sin, no death  ADAM

Man, sin, death.  FALLEN ADAM

Man, no sin, yet under the current 'LAW OF DEATH'.   JESUS  

 THE LAW OF DEATH FOR SIN HAS BEEN BROKEN BECAUSE DEATH HAS TAKEN SOMEONE WITHOUT SIN.  

DEATH itself sinned and 

what SATAN DIDN'T KNOW was that ONCE  that happened, it could never happen again.  

SO WHEN we take the Lord Jesus Christ as our SAVIOUR, we NO LONGER DIE IN SIN SO DEATH CAN'T HOLD US.  
 HIS RIGHTTEOUSNESS, COVERS OUR SIN SO THAT WE IN DEATH ARE  'A NON SINNER' 

 JUST LIKE JESUS

Took 3 days, I wonder why?

Something THE LAW could never do, glorious as it IS.  

AGAIN, 

DEATH COULDN'T KEEP JESUS IN DEATH AS HE WAS A NON SINNER, now DEATH CAN NO LONGER KEEP US 'IN DEATH' WHEN WE BECOME JUST LIKE JESUS, NON SINNERS. 
(AT LEAST THOSE OF US WHO HAVE TAKEN THE LORD AS OUR SAVIOUR) 

And? The flesh still dies. The flesh isn't who or what we truly are. The soul doesn't die like the flesh and death isn't annihilation but an eternal sentence apart from God. Like the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

And as Paul taught the flesh must die so the Spirit quickens, like a seed dies but then lives in a new form. The flesh we live in cannot inherit eternal life.

"⁵⁰Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. ⁵¹Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, ⁵²In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. ⁵³For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. ⁵⁴So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. ⁵⁵O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? "

And the cloak of immortality is given us at the resurrection. That just means the flesh is raised anew, not that the soul was waiting in the grave with the body. You said it, "now DEATH CAN NO LONGER KEEP US 'IN DEATH'", and I agree. Not that we don't die, we cannot be held there. 

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

We have to remember,  Jesus did, in fact HAVE TO SUBMIT HIMSELF TO 'death' AS IT WAS STILL THE ORDER OF THE DAY.  
Why did HE do that?  FOR US.  Sinners who Don't want to be sinners

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned

No death until sin.  Death for all men for all have sinned..

SHOULD HAVE BEEN NO DEATH FOR JESUS. 


PROBABLY NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN,  HAD HE NOT HIMSELF  VOLUNTEERED, WILLINGLY SUBMITTED HIMSELF TO DEATH.  GAVE UP THE GHOST.  

Jesus died so we don't? I do not understand what you are saying.

[DeighAnn]

 

17 hours ago, Diaste said:

I don't think Jesus is teaching us about mortality verses immortality but that we are immortal souls trapped in flesh and where is that immortal soul going to spend eternity. 

Hi Diaste, 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me, I appreciate it.  D

[DeighAnn]

On 3/2/2021 at 11:49 AM, missmuffet said:

Souls are in heaven right now. Their bodies are in the grave waiting to be resurrected with the soul. 

Hi Miss,
Yes they are in heaven right now!!   

And with what body were those souls raised?  Those 'heavenly' ones.  Just as we have born the earthy, we will bear the heavenly, AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN.  

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?


1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Amazing how many won't/can't see something so clear.  Not written in language hard to understand.  How much easier could it have been written.  I always ask if there was no 'heavenly' body why would we be told there was?  If there is a heavenly body why IN HEAVEN WOULD WE NOT USE IT.  

We look in a mirror and see the earth body.  Then we go to heaven and what?  Keep OUR HEAVENLY BODY just hanging in the closet waiting for returning to earth?  Doesn't basic common sense STATE on earth in earthy, in heaven in heavenly. 

HOW THAT EVER GOT 'mixed' up to where it became some 'CONFUSING' issue doesn't even require a guess does it?  God isn't the author of confusion, that would be the adversary. 

I think back to Adam and Eve.  God said.  Satan said.  They believed Satans lie over Gods Truth. We think WE WOULD NEVER HAVE DONE THAT BUT look here again..

IT IS WRITTEN
 It is sown a natural body;

it is raised a spiritual body.  HOW SAY SOME  'NO IT ISN'T'?  OR NOT TILL LATER??


There is a natural body,

and there is a spiritual body.  HOW SAY SOME THERE ISN'T ONE

OR THERE ISN'T ONE 'UNTIL....'?

 And as we have borne the image of the earthy,

we shall also bear the image of the heavenly  HOW SAY SOME 'NO WE WON'T UNTIL.....'? 

 
ONLY WAY THE RICH MAN COULD SEE AND KNOW LAZARUS.  Some say it was a parable but that requires that all spoken was a parable (and since when aren't parables TRUTH?) and all spoken clearly wasn't.  SO WHO IS SAYING IT WAS or wasn't and more importantly WHY?


And if we missed it in 1 Corinth, we got more info in 2...

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

SO WHY ARE SOME SAYING 'NOT TO BE CLOTHED WITH OUR HOUSE' FROM HEAVEN?

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Back to this because some say all that CANT take place until this happens

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

But if we remember correctly  
"we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep"  

In other words there are MANY MANY MANY who have received their immortality.  Think Abraham, Moses, Enoch, Elijah, Isaac, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Matthew.....they don't have/didn't have to wait for a 'last day'.  God is the God of the living.  

D

[DeighAnn]

On 3/2/2021 at 11:49 AM, missmuffet said:

Souls are in heaven right now. Their bodies are in the grave waiting to be resurrected with the soul. 

Hi Miss,
Yes they are in heaven right now!!   

And with what body were those souls raised?  Those 'heavenly' ones.  Just as we have born the earthy, we will bear the heavenly, AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN.  

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?


1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Amazing how many won't/can't see something so clear.  Not written in language hard to understand.  How much easier could it have been written.  I always ask if there was no 'heavenly' body why would we be told there was?  If there is a heavenly body why IN HEAVEN WOULD WE NOT USE IT.  

We look in a mirror and see the earth body.  Then we go to heaven and what?  Keep OUR HEAVENLY BODY just hanging in the closet waiting for returning to earth?  Doesn't basic common sense STATE on earth in earthy, in heaven in heavenly. 

HOW THAT EVER GOT 'mixed' up to where it became some 'CONFUSING' issue doesn't even require a guess does it?  God isn't the author of confusion, that would be the adversary. 

I think back to Adam and Eve.  God said.  Satan said.  They believed Satans lie over Gods Truth. We think WE WOULD NEVER HAVE DONE THAT BUT look here again..

IT IS WRITTEN
 It is sown a natural body;

it is raised a spiritual body.  HOW SAY SOME  'NO IT ISN'T'?  OR NOT TILL LATER??


There is a natural body,

and there is a spiritual body.  HOW SAY SOME THERE ISN'T ONE

OR THERE ISN'T ONE 'UNTIL....'?

 And as we have borne the image of the earthy,

we shall also bear the image of the heavenly  HOW SAY SOME 'NO WE WON'T UNTIL.....'? 

 
ONLY WAY THE RICH MAN COULD SEE AND KNOW LAZARUS.  Some say it was a parable but that requires that all spoken was a parable (and since when aren't parables TRUTH?) and all spoken clearly wasn't.  SO WHO IS SAYING IT WAS or wasn't and more importantly WHY?


And if we missed it in 1 Corinth, we got more info in 2...

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

SO WHY ARE SOME SAYING 'NOT TO BE CLOTHED WITH OUR HOUSE' FROM HEAVEN?

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Back to this because some say all that CANT take place until this happens

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

But if we remember correctly  
"we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep"  

In other words there are MANY MANY MANY who have received their immortality.  Think Abraham, Moses, Enoch, Elijah, Isaac, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Matthew.....they don't have/didn't have to wait for a 'last day'.  God is the God of the living.  

D