HEBREWS 6:1-2

[Your closest friendnt]

32 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Thanks but that is not an answer to the question asked. I did not ask if we would be perfected at the last trumpet. I asked if it was possible for us to be perfect this side of the grave. If the last trumpet does not come in your lifetime or mine or DeighAnn's then we'll die like everyone else. Do you believe any of us can be perfect on this side of the grave? 

It's a simple yes or no answer.

Jesus requires from each and everyone of us a different standard of waking with him, if we can say that. 

To the believing Jews who were born and raised in the strict environment of knowing what is acceptable to God and what is not.

To them a lot was given and a lot was required. 

To the ethnic believers the Lord gave them a light load to carry as it will seem to the mature.

But to them it was not, and it is like that with each and everyone of them and us.

We do not have a law written down like in the old Covenant, where everyone was judged by the same rules. 

For each and everyone the Lords writes in our heart what he expects from each and everyone of us, and as we grow he amends the rules to go parallel with our growth. 

[Your closest friendnt]

30 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I agree but it seems the one to whom you should be posting is the other poster. He appears to think perfection is a possibility and in light of his eschatology and inevitability for some. It appears this op might be a veiled attempt to assert eschatology, not soteriology. It also seems there's some confusion regarding the soteriology because Hebrews is implicitly written to and about Christians, not non-Christians. The opening verses of chapter 6 are being applied to already-saved Christians but the definition of "dead works" provided is applicable to non-believers actively collaborating with evil spirits and not those who've learned or are practicing the basic teachings of Christ. 

Very odd. 

First, I think a point of clarification is in order. There is only one standard. There are many different walks but they are all measured by one single solitary standard: Jesus. Jesus Christ, the logos of God that is God made flesh, dead, buried, and resurrected is the standard by which all will be measured. 

However, I get your point and it is commendable.

That being said, I appreciate the rest of the post but I don't need the lesson. You know I already know all that content. This op is specifically about the first two verses of Hebrews chapter six, a pair of verses written by a convert to Christ to converts to Christ about converts to Christ! It explicitly mentions the teachings of or about Christ and not those working with evil spirits. Whatever the "dead works" may or may not be the context is not that of non-believers. Non-believers in God don't work works for God, whether those works be dead works or living works. 

So any interpretation or definition of dead works not applicable to the original audience is going to be wrong, and that in turn will lead to bad doctrine, bad posts, and false conclusions. 

Furthermore, the op has structured both Hebrews 6 and this conversation based on six "subtopics" but the op has subsequently acknowledged the list may well and in all likelihood does include other matters not cited in the list, or the first two verses of chapter 6. How then are we going to have a cogent conversation of Hebrews 6:1-2 if we willfully impose a man-made and incomplete list of "subtopics" on the scriptures and the discussion thereof? 

Why would you or I (or any of us) collaborate with that without first attempting to at least clarify the limited scope of the op's frame? 

Jesus taught many things. There are many basic or "beginning" teaching about Christ. 

Not 

just 

six. 

The KJV doesn't include the word "beginning," or "elementary." The word "archēs" is completely missing from the KJV. It is NOT a very good translation from which to work on this occasion. Do you think I'm going to get much distance with that fact, that truth? I've probably just jeopardized the entire discussion merely by drawing into question the veracity of the KJV and some will digress to argue irrelevantly. You know how KJVOists are . 

 

How are we going to discuss the op's thesis: "I want to offer the possibility say something about some of these 6 points in any order, because they belong inseparably together and together form our foundation Jesus Christ," when the "6 points" or "6 subtopics" are admittedly incomplete? How are we going to have that conversation working from a poor translation? How are we going to have that conversation with someone imposing eschatology on the matter? How are we going to have that conversation with anyone who things perfection is possible on this side of the grave? How are we going to do that when three of the five verses asserted to define "dead works" are at best highly interpretive liberties with scripture and perhaps at worst gross abuses? How are we going to discuss the op's thesis if we can't agree Romans 6:17-23 is the most exegetical option offered so far?

I also wonder if anyone bothered to examine the word "perfection," because - once again - the Greek term, "teleiotēta," is better translated as "maturity" or "fullness," or "consummation" and not the idea of flawlessness or perfection. This is a term often used in reference to things like fermenting fruit maturing into wine. That changes the entire conversation. We might attain some modicum of maturity or fullness on this side of the grave but we are not going to be flawlessly perfect.

 

Anyone can verify these matters. Easily. I've provided links to the Greek. The audience of Hebrews 6 is self-evident in the letter to the Hebrews. Hebrews is the only epistle containing the phrase "dead works" (chapters 6 and 9). Much of the rest of what I have just posted has already been noted in the prior posts among our peers. Yet I am often shown contempt for broaching content like this. 

 

What do you think will happen when I point out something that should be obvious to everyone: This op wants to discuss the six subtopics of Hebrews 6:1-2 but the verses themselves tell us to move on from such elementary teachings!!! 

So if we're going to discuss this "foundation" then let's do so with the purpose of maturity and moving on from the elementary things. 

Yes? 

 

You paying attention, @Frits? @clancy? 

 

You have to try.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

This is all about Jesus Christ, he is talking about the Heavenly Father in verse 48, his Heavenly Father who is calling him that the last thing that he needs to be perfect like him is to learn to love his enemies in the same way the Heavenly Father is.

The Heavenly Father is bringing Jesus Christ up to his standards. 

..................

Mathew 5:43-48

****43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’****

 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?

**** 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.****

   ..........................

Jesus Christ will be tested on that requirement "to love his enemies " part of the cup which God gave him to drink included the test to love his enemies during the time of his ordeal to the Cross. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Guest clancy]

7 hours ago, Josheb said:

Hmmmmm..... 

Let's take a look at the commentary relevant to the scriptures cited. First, "dead works" are defined as works of inquity done in the service of the devil and this is said based upon Romans 6:23. Romans 6:23 states, "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." I do not read any mention of dead works in Romans 6:23. Remember we're discussing Hebrews 6:1-2, which states, 

Hebrews 6:1-2
"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."

So if we define the "dead works" as you have defined them then the author of Hebrews is saying, 

Indent]"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from [works of iniquity done in service of the devil], and of faith toward God,  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."[/indent]

So I have to ask: Do you really think that is what the author of Hebrews is saying? As we leave the beginning or elementary teaching of Christ let us not again lay the foundation of repenting from working for the devil. 

 

My regrets but I don't have time to speak directly to the other two definitions but neither John 16:2 nor Acts 22:20 say anything about dead works or the basic teachings of Christ from which the Church needs to move past. The two verses are examples of misguided religious zeal but they are examples of Law-based Jewish religiosity, not Christ's teachings or Christian practice. 

Romans 6:21 is definitely a better answer than any of the aforementioned verses but it says nothing about communing with evil spirits. Neither does James 1:15. Communing with evil spirits was not a beginning, elementary, or basic teaching of Jesus, either. 

So it is not yet evident you understand what the author of Hebrews is saying when he mentions "dead works."

 

Since the Romans 6 text is the best offering of the bunch, let's work with that.

Romans 6:17-23
"But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.  Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.  I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.  For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.  What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.  But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." 

Does that work for you (without any added embellishment or "interpretation" beyond what is stated)?

All of that scripture made perfect sense to me....

It  speaks for itself....

[Frits]

12 hours ago, Josheb said:

How are we going to discuss the op's thesis: "I want to offer the possibility say something about some of these 6 points in any order, because they belong inseparably together and together form our foundation Jesus Christ," when the "6 points" or "6 subtopics" are admittedly incomplete? How are we going to have that conversation working from a poor translation? How are we going to have that conversation with someone imposing eschatology on the matter?

"How are we going to discuss the op's thesis: "I want to offer the possibility say something about some of these 6 points in any order, because they belong inseparably together and together form our foundation Jesus Christ," when the "6 points" or "6 subtopics" are admittedly incomplete?

The writer of the Hebrew letter has given us 6 fundamentally points about the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
He could also have named 4 or 5 then still jet those points belong inseparably together, but he didn't do that.  Moreover, it says nothing about how complete the list is, he left it at 6, we can accept that.
 

"How are we going to have that conversation working from a poor translation?"

Until now we have always worked with the translations known to us and that's fine, no reason to complain but a lot of reason to thank the Lord Jesus for providing it.  Praise His holy Name.


 

"How are we going to have that conversation with someone imposing eschatology on the matter?"

We are allowed to talk to each other, we don't have to do anything.
The "someone" you are talking about here is me, Frits, a person with a name.
But not I am the subject of conversation, but the subject is Hebrews 6:1-2.
Shall we stick to that?

But because the House of God forms one big whole, the parts of the Foundation have to do directly with aspects of God's House (the Church) that only come to their full revelation at the last trumpet.
Then the Church of Jesus Christ has come to perfection (G5046) and the resurrection is completed after soul, spirit and body.
So yes, the resurrection of the dead (# 5) begins when the spiritually dead human hears and accepts the words of the Lord Jesus, and is completed when this believing person appears on earth with his heavenly body clothed.

Efe 5:14 KJV Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

The body of the believers on earth at that moment is "swallowed up" by their heavenly body. (1Cor.15:54, 2Cor.5:4)
Hence, I have quoted this essential and compelling subject of the resurrection of the dead from Heb.6:2, because our beginning is precisely mentioned in God's Foundation.

[David1701]

On 3/8/2021 at 4:34 PM, Frits said:

Although nowhere explicitly stated, I think Paul is the writer of the Hebrew letter.
His knowledge of the angelic world and his deep insight and explanation of the life and position of the Lord Jesus Christ above the angels, points to that. (C1,2)

Chapter 6 begins with the call, "Therefore.. let us go on unto perfection", after the foundation of Christ has been laid.

The writer then indicates which parts are found in the foundation according to the "doctrine of Christ":

1. Of repentance from dead works.

2. Of faith toward God.

3. Of the doctrine of baptisms.

4. Of laying on of hands.

5. Of resurrection of the dead.

6. Of eternal judgment.

Because the Foundation is divided into 6 subtopics here, I realize the great scope of this topic.
Nevertheless, I want to offer the possibility to say something about some of these 6 points in any order, because they belong inseparably together and together form our foundation Jesus Christ. (1Cor.3:11)

God bless you.

Heb. 6:1,2 (HCSB)

1 Therefore, leaving the elementary message about the Messiah, let us go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, faith in God,
2 teaching about ritual washings, laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.

These elementary doctrines are all Old Covenant doctrines (obviously not exclusively OC).  That is the foundation from which these Hebrews were exhorted to be carried on (passive voice) to maturity.  That maturity being faith in the Messiah, Jesus Christ.  In other words, they were to leave the Old Covenant and be carried into the New Covenant.

P.S. the "...of Christ...", in verse 1, in some translations, is an objective genitive (i.e. the doctrine of which Christ is the object), which is why some translations use "about", instead of "of".

Edited March 11, 2021 by David1701
chose a better translation here and typos

[Your closest friendnt]

10 hours ago, David1701 said:

Heb. 6:1,2 (HCSB)

1 Therefore, leaving the elementary message about the Messiah, let us go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, faith in God,
2 teaching about ritual washings, laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.

These elementary doctrines are all Old Covenant doctrines (obviously not exclusively OC).  That is the foundation from which these Hebrews were exhorted to be carried on (passive voice) to maturity.  That maturity being faith in the Messiah, Jesus Christ.  In other words, they were to leave the Old Covenant and be carried into the New Covenant.

P.S. the "...of Christ...", in verse 1, in some translations, is an objective genitive (i.e. the doctrine of which Christ is the object), which is why some translations use "about", instead of "of".

I find your comments quite to the point, as those people before they believe they lived week in week out by the religious Calendar and the laws in the book of Leviticus. 

The ceremonial washings, clean and unclean, observance of days , Sabbath, moon celebrations, the mandatory celebrations, Circumcision, all those and others had to be kept to keep a person in right standing or alive in the righteousness of the Law.

But in the Gospel of Jesus Christ we are alive to God because of our faith in Jesus Christ. 

The writer explains in the first chapters that we are alive to God because of Jesus Christ, we do not need to do anything to mantain or to aid to our Salvation. 

He speaks similarly as Paul speaks.

To be fair to his audience he is not a good counselor in that he does not distinguish the fact that his audience are living within a Jewish Coulture and are members of traditional Jewish families, not all but the majority of them, anyway they all lived in traditional Jewish neighborhoods. 

And for that they had to complied with the requirements of the Jewish Law.

And for that they had to follow the tradition Jewish customs keeping the Sabath, being Kosher, and...and...

Keeping themselves clean...

That time it was a religious offense to do anything contrary to their religious culture. 

Still it was forbidden to eat non kosher food as believers, and no to ceremonially wash their hands and their food and vegetables....

They were in a very difficult situation. 

They were believers and they had to live their lives as Jewish. 

This is why James told Paul, we understand your Gospel but please do not preached it here in Jerusalem, go to the Gentiles, here we have to live as Jews, there is not religious freedom. 

James explained that as believers they have to live the Jewish culture, that was not an option but a must. 

That's why they did not have Gentile believers in their mist in Jerusalem. (God forbid)

 That's why Jesus send Philip for a hit and run ministry in the desert, and then to Samaria (the first one, send by Jesus Christ and not the church in Jerusalem. 

Jesus Christ also did not send Peter to the Gentiles in Jerusalem but to Gentiles first in another far away city by the port, to a not so strict city, they did not kill for religious matters in that city.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Frits]

21 hours ago, Josheb said:

Let me start afresh. 

 

I've read through most of your posts and notice an emphasis being placed on the "gospel" of Christ even though the author of Hebrews does not mention the word "gospel" once in the entire epistle. What Hebrews 6:1-2 mentions is teachings about Christ (KJV) or teachings of Christ (most other translations). The teachings of Jesus are not exactly the same thing as the gospel of Christ. The gospel of Christ requires repentance from sin and faith in God but it doesn't require baptisms, laying on of hands. The gospel is definitely about the resurrect and avoiding the condemnation inherent in eternal judgment but our salvation does not require us to know that. 

So why, since the author of Hebrews never mentions the word and some of the items in the list aren't apostolic teaching or require for the gospel, why have those verses been asserted as the gospel? Why not stick to what is written in the verses without added embellishment? I assume you have reason for doing so. Please do tell us. 

"So the answer to the question asked is, "No, I do not believe the list is exhaustive because there are other things that might well be included in the list but were not mentioned by the author of Hebrews."

"Yes?"

It is clear to me that with this suggestive question you want to undermine the importance and apostolic authority of Heb.6:1-2!

These verses are included in the infallible Word of God for a clear reason.
It is not for you or anyone else to discuss this series of 6 fundamental points from God's word. 
You may elaborate on every fundamental point # 1 to # 6, that's the purpose of this OP.
Not that you would criticize the series by calling it "incomplete" or that some points would not be part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

 

"..if we're going to discuss these two verses and the six items of the incomplete list provided by the authors for illustrative purposes then let's do so using the whole word of God as the Greek informs us, not as the KJV informs us."

Here you do two things, on the one hand you indicate that you want to discuss the 6 pillars of the foundation, while the intention is that we elaborate on the content, and you do not do that once!

And then again name the points "incomplete" and "illustrative"!

While the series must be accepted as sufficient and workable, even if it were only 3, 4 or 5 points, even then!

In doing so, you disdainfully call the points "illustrative", as they are all an essential part of the Foundation of faith in Jesus Christ.
That is very bad!
With that you not only undermine the authority of God's Word (the Hebrew letter!), but above all that you attack the Lord Jesus Christ with it, because He is that Foundation!!

 

1Co 3:11 KJV For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

 

"What the author of Hebrews actually said is to move on from the "beginning" teachings about Christ. And he did not actually mention the word "gospel."

Another denial of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ!  For in verse 1 the writer had clearly stated:

'Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ' (Hebr.6:1)

The doctrine of Christ concerns the whole of His Gospel, it's synonymous with it.
Without the teachings of Jesus Christ, there is no Foundation and without His teachings, there is no Gospel!

Every building starts with a foundation, and then continues with the work of building up to the glory in total completion.
Hence, this OP also begins with the Foundation of God's House.
In order to be able to move on to the perfect it is important to 'see' that the Foundation, Jesus Christ, has been correctly laid in us.
Paul also indicates this. (1Cor.3:10)

 

"Hebrews 6:1-2 is about beginning teachings of Christ."

So if I ask you some questions about the Foundation, this one
teaching of Christ, you can always provide substantive answers?

1. Have you repented of dead works, and which ones?

2. Is the Lord Jesus God and what shows your faith in Him?

3. Were you baptized by immersion in water?
Have you been baptized with the Holy Ghost, do you speak in tongues audibly?

4. Do you lay your hands on sick people for healing?

5. Have you been raised from the dead through the Words of the Lord Jesus? (Jh.5:24)

6. Is there an eternal judgment and what does that mean?

If 1 or more of the above questions is answered with no, there is something wrong with your foundation!

 

"The six matters list in the verses is not an exhaustive list."

We are not going to pointlessly question the list, but we are going to apply it in terms of content, so that God's Power can rest on His Foundation in our lives.

 

"We can have maturity and some degree of fullness in Christ on this side of the grave."

I don't know their number, maybe there will be a million or ten million or a hundred million, but there will be Christians who will reach total perfection on this side of the grave.
That's when they're going to be changed by the Power of the Holy Ghost in a moment.  (1Cor.15:52)

 

"The teachings of Jesus are not exactly the same thing as the gospel of Christ".

This is a fierce attack on the being of the Lord Jesus, which is going to have serious consequences!  (Mt.21:44)

 

"The gospel of Christ re
quires repentance from sin and faith in God but it doesn't require baptisms, laying on of hands".

By eliminating baptisms from the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as well as the laying on of hands, the teachings of God are affected!  With that His Foundation is affected and with that the Lord Jesus Himself is affected !! (read 1Cor.3:11)

 

"and some of the items in the list aren't apostolic teaching or require for the gospel, why have those verses been asserted as the gospel?"

Again an attack on the teaching of the apostles!  The Hebrew letter has apostolic authority.  For that reason it has received an important position in God's Word.
The writer has spread the 'sound doctrine' with his letter;  of repentance from dead works, of faith in God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of the laying on of hands, of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
All this entirely commissioned and in imitation of his Master the Lord Jesus:

Mar 16:16 KJV 'He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 KJV And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 KJV They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.'

 

"Please do tell us."

Finally, I wonder why you use the term "us" instead of "me".  Do you think you should speak for others?

I wouldn't be surprised, because I know how you feel about yourself:

"I happen to be a very intelligent, well-educated, very practiced and experienced believer"

But does this say anything about how humbly you serve the Lord Jesus Christ, or does this say anything about your own pride?

May the Lord Jesus bless you.

[Your closest friendnt]

 

Hebrews 5:13 ,14

13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.

****

 14 But solid food is for the mature,who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. 

............the HR (The Hebrews writer) is definitely is talking to believers who came out of the book of Leviticus or who were born from parents living within the book of Leviticus, and were raised in the book of Leviticus but now have come out from the book of Leviticus. 

They are in Jesus Christ, they are in the righteousness of Jesus Christ which have come unto them when they believe in Jesus Christ by DEFAULT.

They are alive in God because of their faith in Jesus Christ. 

To be in his righteousness it means that they are not in their sins. 

(Without any rituals from the book of Leviticus only by faith in God)(the dead works in Jesus Christ is the obedience in the works and the rituals in the book of Leviticus). 

While they live they have forgiven and unforgiven sins. But at the time of their Judgment after they died, their sins are not held or acounted against them, because they were acounted against their Judge.

The Judge of the eternal Judgment is the Slain Lamb of God who took the sins of the whole world upon himsel.

The believers in him they are part of his Inheritance only those who are in him not those who do not believe in him. 

There are many judgments but the eternal judgment for those who had died before Jesus Christ took place at the moment Jesus Christ was raised from the dead.

Their last chance to believe it was just before Jesus Christ was raised from the dead. By that time everyone had heard the Gospel from Jesus Christ himself, who was appointed to preach the Gospel to the dead. 

Those who believe they were in Jesus Christ. 

They were in him in his Inheritance, in his Heavenly Inheritance. 

The same with us as with them.

They are in their Heavenly Inheritance together with those who have believe in Jesus Christ and have died before us and we will joint them the time we will depart from this body, when this body no longer functions, call it what ever you like.

Freeze it, preserved it, feed it, burn it. 

Jesus Christ took as his people the Greeks and the Romans, those who burned the bodies of their dead welcome him in their Nation.

 

***New International Version

6 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 

2 instruction about cleansing rites,

 the laying on of hands,

the resurrection of the dead,

 and eternal judgment. 

******

English Standard Version

6 Therefore (A)let us leave (B)the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance (C)from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 and of (D)instruction about washings,the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead,

and eternal judgment. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Frits]

5 hours ago, Josheb said:

That comment, and several others in your post, are more examples of things that shouldn't be happening. You yourself wrote about keeping the posts about the posts and not the posters. Yet here I am reading one more negative attribution being assigned to my person that has absolutely nothing to do with the op or the op-relevant content of my posts. The entire post is about me, not Hebrews 6:1-2!!!

Even after I asked that it stop. 

Titus 3:9-11
"But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.  As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him,  knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

This is not the first discussion in which this has happened and I am not the only poster with whom you have these problems. You've been here all of three months and presume to off-topically tell people you've never met what is going on within them because of some imaginary ability to know the unstated motives of others. 

I have been patient. I've also been kind. I have repeatedly tried to solicit op-relevant response to the op-relevant content of my replies without personal attack,, without returning evil for evil only to read things increasingly worse with each ensuing post. 

You have done exactly what I said would happen:  you've lost the op. 

 

 

So here's what is going to happen. I am going to post about Hebrews 6:1-2 and I am going to discuss those two verses politely and respectfully with those who can and will do likewise and I won't be replying to anything else you post in your own op. There's much to be said about these two verses and I will do so as my time permits. Without you. It was my intent to engage you in your op despite your suspicions to the contrary (1 Jn. 4:8). It will now be my intent to engage the op without you. 

No, Hebrews 6:1-2 is about leaving those things. 

Blessedly, I can answer every single one of those questions in the affirmative. Not so blessedly, you've gone off-topic, made the post about the poster, and missed the opportunity to discuss Hebrews 6:1-2 with a person who can answer all those questions affirmatively. 

So very sad you would sabotage your own op this way. 

You write yourself:

"Hebrews 6:1-2 is about beginning teachings of Christ."

"No, Hebrews 6:1-2 is about leaving those things."

The comment is yours, but the first line was yours too!

I quoted you by copy / paste, so you are now discussing with yourself!
One big contradiction and not credible!
 

Here I have two more quotes from you, in response to my question about Hebr.6:1-2, whether you are submerged in water and lay hands on sick people:

"The gospel of Christ re
quires repentance from sin and faith in God but it doesn't require baptisms, laying on of hands".

"Blessedly, I can answer every single one of those questions in the affirmative."

And now you suddenly say that because of your faith you have allowed yourself to be immersed in water?
These two statements at the same time, that's not credible!

And now you say that
because of your faith you also lay hands on sick people, while you first said this is not a fundamental part of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus!
Again, these two statements at the same time, that's not credible!