Futurism

[Your closest friendnt]

28 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Thanks, but none of that answers my question. 

I did not ask for passages that could eisgetically be made to infer a temple. I asked where scripture states a third temple will be built. That question was not answered. 

 

Neither did I ask for superfluous information. It is a single solitary simple question being asked and we won't be able to 1) build from scripture and 2) build from consensus if the question asked isn't answered. 

Btw, Ezekiel's temple is a vision. It is not real. Neither does it have any roof. It sits in a city that would physically extend off the mountain where Jerusalem now sits by more than a mile. Ezekiel's temple is not real. Read through the book and do the math.

Please post the scriptures.

1. Build from scriptures 

And please post the  consensus. 

2. Build from consensus. 

 

Quote

But first, please answer the question asked. There was also a pair of temples built after all those prophets spoke/wrote; one of stone and another of people. One built by human hands and another built by God. Lay aside all you think you know about the temple of the future and just answer the question asked: 

 

 

Where does scripture state a third physical temple of stone will be built?

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Guest kingdombrat]

14 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Can you share where Daniel tells us who and when this final person will be? 

One more question that may tell me how this might have come about- Who do you believe is the “he” in Daniel 9:27?

 Thank you, Charlie 

I am discussing Daniel 11

[Your closest friendnt]

12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

No problem. See, I just explained that I DO believe in the Trinity, or rather, the "Tri-Unity." I've thought this out extensively, and I know I'm unconventional, but we have a couple of Scripture passages people don't consider when thinking about the Son of God, Yeshua`, the Messiah of God.

First, the author of Hebrews said,

Hebrews 13:7-14 (KJV)

7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation (lifestyle). 
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. 9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. 10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. 11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. 12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. 13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. 14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

The Greek of verse 8 is this:

8 Ieesous Christos echthes kai seemeron ho autos kai eis tous aioonas.

8 Ieesous = 8 Yeshua`, "Jesus"
Christos = Mashiyach, Messiah, "Christ"
echthes = yesterday
kai = and/also
seemeron = today
ho = the
autos = same
kai = and/also
eis = into
tous = the
aioonas. = ages.

Thus, it's worded: "Yeshua` Messiah yesterday and today the same and into the ages."

NOTE: That is NOT a long time into the past; it's YESTERDAY! I believe he was referring to Yeshua`s lifetime, particularly the last 3.5 years of His offer of the Kingdom to the Jews, His own tribe! "TODAY" I believe is referring to the way He is now, having been resurrected. And, "INTO THE AGES" is indeed referring to the future ages to come, about which we have little to no information. By that time, God the Father will be ruling and reigning over the World Empire, and Yeshua` will be continuing to reign over the children of Israel. One cannot forget or neglect the prophecy that Gavri'el ("Gabriel") stated to Miryam ("Mary"):

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold (look!), thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name Yeshua`). 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and THE LORD GOD SHALL GIVE UNTO HIM THE THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID: 33 AND HE SHALL REIGN OVER THE HOUSE OF JACOB (WHO WAS RENAMED "ISRAEL") FOR EVER (Greek: EIS TOUS AIOONAS = "INTO THE AGES"); AND OF HIS KINGDOM THERE SHALL BE NO END (Greek: KAI TEES BASILEIAS AUTOU OUK ESTAI TELOS = "AND THE KINGDOM OF-HIM NOT THERE-SHALL-BE AN-END")!

NOTE, TOO: Verse 32 says HE SHALL BE CALLED the "Son of the Highest" or the "Ben El-Elyon," the "Son of the God of gods" or the "Son of the HIGHEST GOD!" Since we admit that there ARE NO OTHER GODS, then we say simply "He is the Son of GOD (THE ONE AND ONLY)!"

Whereas I believe that Yeshua` no longer technically has all the attributes of God, His Father, still when we look to God, WE SEE YESHUA` FIRST! He is our MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN! So what if He doesn't have all the attributes of His Father? We can SEE HIM! Furthermore, He is the EXACT IMAGE OF HIS FATHER! (2 Corinthians 4:4; Hebrews 1:3) Also, God has committed all judgment to His Son! (John 5:22) So, for the first 1,000 years of His reign, HE WILL BE GOD'S MESSIAH - GOD'S ANOINTED ONE TO BE KING, ULTIMATELY OVER THE WHOLE EARTH! He THINKS like His Father, God; He TALKS to His Father all the time! And, how does He pray?

Luke 10:21-22 (KJV)

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said,

"I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight!"

 22 "All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him."

and

John 17:1-26 (KJV)

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said,

"Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 "And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 "O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. 26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them."

And, Yeshua` had this to say about Himself and His Father:

John 5:16- (KJV)

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them,

"My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them,

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him (God) that (who) sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

31 "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

33 "Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. 35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.

36 "But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41 I receive not honour from men. 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"

I'm not a "wolf in sheep's clothing" (or a "sheep in wolf's clothing" ???) I'm a PURIST! I believe that we should accept the Scriptures EXACTLY AS THEY WERE WRITTEN!

I don't believe we should add anything to or remove anything from the Scriptures, but theology frequently does!

Shalom Retrobyter, thank for the scriptures and the Greek.

There is too much in your post and thank for posting scriptures. 

I was taught to let the scriptures and the context to do the talking and if I make a statement to be ready to support my position from scriptures and the context.

Often we say that things are taken out of context. 

Context can redirect someone's understanding. 

So my aim is to understand the context and not to comment about what the scriptures say without looking into the context, and with that I bring the context into discussion. 

I allowed to be question on the context.

There is something on your post that needs to be clarified or rather the context needs to be clarified. 

To follow in the next post.

Shalom 

[Your closest friendnt]

12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

No problem. See, I just explained that I DO believe in the Trinity, or rather, the "Tri-Unity." I've thought this out extensively, and I know I'm unconventional, but we have a couple of Scripture passages people don't consider when thinking about the Son of God, Yeshua`, the Messiah of God.

First, the author of Hebrews said,

Hebrews 13:7-14 (KJV)

7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation (lifestyle). 
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. 9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. 10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. 11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. 12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. 13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. 14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

The Greek of verse 8 is this:

8 Ieesous Christos echthes kai seemeron ho autos kai eis tous aioonas.

8 Ieesous = 8 Yeshua`, "Jesus"
Christos = Mashiyach, Messiah, "Christ"
echthes = yesterday
kai = and/also
seemeron = today
ho = the
autos = same
kai = and/also
eis = into
tous = the
aioonas. = ages.

Thus, it's worded: "Yeshua` Messiah yesterday and today the same and into the ages."

NOTE: That is NOT a long time into the past; it's YESTERDAY! I believe he was referring to Yeshua`s lifetime, particularly the last 3.5 years of His offer of the Kingdom to the Jews, His own tribe! "TODAY" I believe is referring to the way He is now, having been resurrected. And, "INTO THE AGES" is indeed referring to the future ages to come, about which we have little to no information. By that time, God the Father will be ruling and reigning over the World Empire, and Yeshua` will be continuing to reign over the children of Israel. One cannot forget or neglect the prophecy that Gavri'el ("Gabriel") stated to Miryam ("Mary"):

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold (look!), thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name Yeshua`). 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and THE LORD GOD SHALL GIVE UNTO HIM THE THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID: 33 AND HE SHALL REIGN OVER THE HOUSE OF JACOB (WHO WAS RENAMED "ISRAEL") FOR EVER (Greek: EIS TOUS AIOONAS = "INTO THE AGES"); AND OF HIS KINGDOM THERE SHALL BE NO END (Greek: KAI TEES BASILEIAS AUTOU OUK ESTAI TELOS = "AND THE KINGDOM OF-HIM NOT THERE-SHALL-BE AN-END")!

NOTE, TOO: Verse 32 says HE SHALL BE CALLED the "Son of the Highest" or the "Ben El-Elyon," the "Son of the God of gods" or the "Son of the HIGHEST GOD!" Since we admit that there ARE NO OTHER GODS, then we say simply "He is the Son of GOD (THE ONE AND ONLY)!"

Whereas I believe that Yeshua` no longer technically has all the attributes of God, His Father, still when we look to God, WE SEE YESHUA` FIRST! He is our MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN! So what if He doesn't have all the attributes of His Father? We can SEE HIM! Furthermore, He is the EXACT IMAGE OF HIS FATHER! (2 Corinthians 4:4; Hebrews 1:3) Also, God has committed all judgment to His Son! (John 5:22) So, for the first 1,000 years of His reign, HE WILL BE GOD'S MESSIAH - GOD'S ANOINTED ONE TO BE KING, ULTIMATELY OVER THE WHOLE EARTH! He THINKS like His Father, God; He TALKS to His Father all the time! And, how does He pray?

Luke 10:21-22 (KJV)

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said,

"I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight!"

 22 "All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him."

and

John 17:1-26 (KJV)

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said,

"Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 "And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 "O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. 26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them."

And, Yeshua` had this to say about Himself and His Father:

John 5:16- (KJV)

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them,

"My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them,

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him (God) that (who) sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

31 "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

33 "Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. 35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.

36 "But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41 I receive not honour from men. 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"

I'm not a "wolf in sheep's clothing" (or a "sheep in wolf's clothing" ???) I'm a PURIST! I believe that we should accept the Scriptures EXACTLY AS THEY WERE WRITTEN!

I don't believe we should add anything to or remove anything from the Scriptures, but theology frequently does!

Shalom Retrobyter, I am not ignoring the rest of the post as the issues raised are numerous and important. 

**it is about Hebrews 13: 8

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever "

I need to establish the context of my understanding

(because I may be question on the context) 

I need to be ready and accoundable and not to Lord it over others and elicit agreement with indimitation. 

As I am not a person of authority in this forum, I do not have this problem. 

      ********

The Hebrews writer made this statement to people who had their heart broken, to people who were from the elect seed of Abraham through Issac and Jacob and all the house of Jacob who was named ISRAEL in him the election as in Abraham to Isaac only and from Issac to Jacob only. 

God change this tradition and include all the descendants of Jacob to the promises made Abraham that he will be their God and they will be his people. 

The writer of Hebrews speaking to believers in Jesus Christ who once stood on being the people of God because of Abraham, Issac and Jacob and they were very proud of their descent and they were promised and that what they understood that it will not be taken from them, that it was for ever.

The fact that they are believers in Jesus Christ it is an admission that they are in Christ Jesus and not in Abraham, that their boasting was taken from them and as they were in the boasting of the Law that also was taken away from them.

And having those experiences as they were the first generation and having their boasting chatter and their pride heart broken, they were having this cautious thought in their heart.

Is Jesus Christ forever, or along the way God has something else in mind.

The writer ensured them that Jesus Christ as he is today as they are in him will always be the same he will never change. 

He is God's Christ for evermore.

The yesterday can only go from the Cross forwards when he died and forwards .

From that time and Jesus recieving all the honor and Glory from God will never change. 

 

 

 

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, kingdombrat said:

I am discussing Daniel 11

Ok and thank you! Charlie 

 

[DeighAnn]

WHO KILLED CHRIST? 

Certainly it was under Gods DIVINE plan,  as all that takes place IS

BUT TO READ  'GOD KILLED CHRIST'   -     makes my soul very sad.

the first prophecy

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

Isaiah 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

HERE HE DIES

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

so ALREAD DEAD

Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

AND AFTER HIS DEATH

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD


to bruise him;   

1792  DAKA -  TO CRUST
become contrite (1), contrite (1), crush (7), crushed (7), crushing (1), oppressed (1).
crush, (figurative) with accusative one's life to the earth 

beat to pieces, break in pieces, bruise, contrite, crush, destroy, humble, oppress,
A primitive root (compare dakah); to crumble; transitively, to bruise (literally or figuratively) -- beat to pieces, break (in pieces), bruise, contrite, crush, destroy, humble, oppress, smite.

he hath put him to grief:

2470  -  CHALAH  TO BE WEAK OR SICK

 it pleased ׳to bruise him, making him sick' = to bruise him sorely,

beseech, be diseased, put to grief, be grieved, be grievous, infirmity
A primitive root (compare chuwl, chalah, chalal); properly, to be rubbed or worn; hence (figuratively) to be weak, sick, afflicted; or (causatively) to grieve, make sick; also to stroke (in flattering), entreat -- beseech, (be) diseased, (put to) grief, be grieved, (be) grievous, infirmity, intreat, lay to, put to pain, X pray, make prayer, be (fall, make) sick, sore, be sorry, make suit (X supplication), woman in travail, be (become) weak, be wounded.  FROM BIBLEHUB

 

WHEN THOU SHALT MAKE HIS SOUL AN OFFERING FOR SIN 


he shall see his seed,


he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.


Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


Psalm 143:1 Hear my prayer, O LORD, give ear to my supplications: in thy faithfulness answer me, and in thy righteousness.

Psalm 143:2 And enter not into judgment with thy servant: FOR IN THY SIGHT SHALL NO MAN LIVING BE JUSTIFIED. 

Psalm 143:3 For the enemy hath persecuted my soul; he hath smitten my life down to the ground; he hath made me to dwell in darkness, as those that have been long dead.

Psalm 143:4 Therefore is my spirit overwhelmed within me; my heart within me is desolate.  

Probably shouldn't even post right now, all messed up.  

[Keras]

5 hours ago, Josheb said:

Thanks, but none of that answers my question. 

I did not ask for passages that could eisgetically be made to infer a temple. I asked where scripture states a third temple will be built. That question was not answered. 

 

Neither did I ask for superfluous information. It is a single solitary simple question being asked and we won't be able to 1) build from scripture and 2) build from consensus if the question asked isn't answered. 

Btw, Ezekiel's temple is a vision. It is not real. Neither does it have any roof. It sits in a city that would physically extend off the mountain where Jerusalem now sits by more than a mile. Ezekiel's temple is not real. Read through the book and do the math.

But first, please answer the question asked. There was also a pair of temples built after all those prophets spoke/wrote; one of stone and another of people. One built by human hands and another built by God. Lay aside all you think you know about the temple of the future and just answer the question asked: 

 

 

Where does scripture state a third physical temple of stone will be built?

 

It is merely your opinion that Ezekiel 40 to 48 is not talking about a real Temple in Jerusalem, the actual holy Land. 

Ezekiel did have a vision, as did all the Prophets; visions of future reality. 

 

[leah777]

23 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

WHO KILLED CHRIST? 

Certainly it was under Gods DIVINE plan,  as all that takes place IS

BUT TO READ  'GOD KILLED CHRIST'   -     makes my soul very sad.

the first prophecy

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

Isaiah 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

HERE HE DIES

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

so ALREAD DEAD

Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

AND AFTER HIS DEATH

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD


to bruise him;   

1792  DAKA -  TO CRUST
become contrite (1), contrite (1), crush (7), crushed (7), crushing (1), oppressed (1).
crush, (figurative) with accusative one's life to the earth 

beat to pieces, break in pieces, bruise, contrite, crush, destroy, humble, oppress,
A primitive root (compare dakah); to crumble; transitively, to bruise (literally or figuratively) -- beat to pieces, break (in pieces), bruise, contrite, crush, destroy, humble, oppress, smite.

he hath put him to grief:

2470  -  CHALAH  TO BE WEAK OR SICK

 it pleased ׳to bruise him, making him sick' = to bruise him sorely,

beseech, be diseased, put to grief, be grieved, be grievous, infirmity
A primitive root (compare chuwl, chalah, chalal); properly, to be rubbed or worn; hence (figuratively) to be weak, sick, afflicted; or (causatively) to grieve, make sick; also to stroke (in flattering), entreat -- beseech, (be) diseased, (put to) grief, be grieved, (be) grievous, infirmity, intreat, lay to, put to pain, X pray, make prayer, be (fall, make) sick, sore, be sorry, make suit (X supplication), woman in travail, be (become) weak, be wounded.  FROM BIBLEHUB

 

WHEN THOU SHALT MAKE HIS SOUL AN OFFERING FOR SIN 


he shall see his seed,


he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.


Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


Psalm 143:1 Hear my prayer, O LORD, give ear to my supplications: in thy faithfulness answer me, and in thy righteousness.

Psalm 143:2 And enter not into judgment with thy servant: FOR IN THY SIGHT SHALL NO MAN LIVING BE JUSTIFIED. 

Psalm 143:3 For the enemy hath persecuted my soul; he hath smitten my life down to the ground; he hath made me to dwell in darkness, as those that have been long dead.

Psalm 143:4 Therefore is my spirit overwhelmed within me; my heart within me is desolate.  

Probably shouldn't even post right now, all messed up.  

Peace and blessing to you. Sometimes we need to sit with a thought for a while, in prayer, and wait for Him to speak to us. xxx

[Keras]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

Those two sentences contradict one another (if it is a vision then it is not real - it is a vision), and no, it is not just my opinion. I was asked and I provided an explanation for how and why I posted what I posted and everything I posted is straight out of scripture (God's opinion) as written, plainly read without addition, subtraction or further embellishment or interpretation. 

Third-templeism might be an opinion, but what I posted is not. 

 

And the question asked still hasn't been answered. 

 

Where does scripture state a third physical temple of stone will be built? 

 

If such a verse exists then just post it. Prove me wrong. If not then acknowledge the absence of silence of scripture. 

As I said: All the prophets had visions, of what will happen in their future.  Zechariah 9:9 was a vision given to him hundreds of years before it came true.

Your contention that a 'Prophetic vision' is meaningless is wrong and seem to be made to avoid the probability of some very dramatic 'visions' happening during your lifetime. 

There WILL be a new Temple in Jerusalem; Acts 15:16-17 proves it. 

 

 

[Retrobyter]

12 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Shalom Retrobyter, I am not ignoring the rest of the post as the issues raised are numerous and important. 

**it is about Hebrews 13: 8

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever "

I need to establish the context of my understanding

(because I may be question on the context) 

I need to be ready and accoundable and not to Lord it over others and elicit agreement with indimitation. 

As I am not a person of authority in this forum, I do not have this problem. 

      ********

The Hebrews writer made this statement to people who had their heart broken, to people who were from the elect seed of Abraham through Issac and Jacob and all the house of Jacob who was named ISRAEL in him the election as in Abraham to Isaac only and from Issac to Jacob only. 

God change this tradition and include all the descendants of Jacob to the promises made Abraham that he will be their God and they will be his people. 

The writer of Hebrews speaking to believers in Jesus Christ who once stood on being the people of God because of Abraham, Issac and Jacob and they were very proud of their descent and they were promised and that what they understood that it will not be taken from them, that it was for ever.

The fact that they are believers in Jesus Christ it is an admission that they are in Christ Jesus and not in Abraham, that their boasting was taken from them and as they were in the boasting of the Law that also was taken away from them.

And having those experiences as they were the first generation and having their boasting chatter and their pride heart broken, they were having this cautious thought in their heart.

Is Jesus Christ forever, or along the way God has something else in mind.

The writer ensured them that Jesus Christ as he is today as they are in him will always be the same he will never change. 

He is God's Christ for evermore.

The yesterday can only go from the Cross forwards when he died and forwards .

From that time and Jesus recieving all the honor and Glory from God will never change. 

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

One must be fully understanding his or her heritage through the Messiah Yeshua`. Was Yeshua` a Jew or wasn't He? Well, not only do we have His heritage - His lineage - written in Matthew 1 but also in Luke 3, but we also have His heritage admitted when He was talking with the Samaritan woman at the well in John 4.

Matthew 1:1-17 (KJV)

1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2 Abraham begat Isaac; and
Isaac begat Jacob (Israel); and
Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; 
3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and
Phares begat Esrom; and
Esrom begat Aram; 4 And
Aram begat Aminadab; and
Aminadab begat Naasson; and
Naasson begat Salmon; 5 And
Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and
Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and
Obed begat Jesse; 6 And
Jesse begat David the king; and
David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; 7 And
Solomon begat Roboam; and
Roboam begat Abia; and
Abia begat Asa; 8 And
Asa begat Josaphat; and
Josaphat begat Joram; and
Joram begat Ozias; 9 And
Ozias begat Joatham; and
Joatham begat Achaz; and
Achaz begat Ezekias; 10 And
Ezekias begat Manasses; and
Manasses begat Amon; and
Amon begat Josias; 11 And
Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12 And after they were brought to Babylon, ...
Jechonias begat Salathiel; and
Salathiel begat Zorobabel; 13 And
Zorobabel begat Abiud; and
Abiud begat Eliakim; and
Eliakim begat Azor; 14 And
Azor begat Sadoc; and
Sadoc begat Achim; and
Achim begat Eliud; 15 And
Eliud begat Eleazar; and
Eleazar begat Matthan; and
Matthan begat Jacob; 16 And
Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ (the Messiah).

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

Luke 3:21-38 (KJV)

21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph,
which was the son of Heli, 
24 Which was the son of Matthat,
which was the son of Levi,
which was the son of Melchi,
which was the son of Janna,
which was the son of Joseph, 
25 Which was the son of Mattathias,
which was the son of Amos,
which was the son of Naum,
which was the son of Esli,
which was the son of Nagge, 
26 Which was the son of Maath,
which was the son of Mattathias,
which was the son of Semei,
which was the son of Joseph,
which was the son of Juda, 
27 Which was the son of Joanna,
which was the son of Rhesa,
which was the son of Zorobabel,
which was the son of Salathiel,
which was the son of Neri, 
28 Which was the son of Melchi,
which was the son of Addi,
which was the son of Cosam,
which was the son of Elmodam,
which was the son of Er, 
29 Which was the son of Jose,
which was the son of Eliezer,
which was the son of Jorim,
which was the son of Matthat,
which was the son of Levi, 
30 Which was the son of Simeon,
which was the son of Juda,
which was the son of Joseph,
which was the son of Jonan,
which was the son of Eliakim, 
31 Which was the son of Melea,
which was the son of Menan,
which was the son of Mattatha,
which was the son of Nathan,
which was the son of David, 
32 Which was the son of Jesse,
which was the son of Obed,
which was the son of Booz,
which was the son of Salmon,
which was the son of Naasson, 
33 Which was the son of Aminadab,
which was the son of Aram,
which was the son of Esrom,
which was the son of Phares,
which was the son of Juda, 
34 Which was the son of Jacob (Israel),
which was the son of Isaac,
which was the son of Abraham,
which was the son of Thara,
which was the son of Nachor, 
35 Which was the son of Saruch,
which was the son of Ragau,
which was the son of Phalec,
which was the son of Heber,
which was the son of Sala, 
36 Which was the son of Cainan,
which was the son of Arphaxad,
which was the son of Sem,
which was the son of Noe,
which was the son of Lamech, 
37 Which was the son of Mathusala,
which was the son of Enoch,
which was the son of Jared,
which was the son of Maleleel,
which was the son of Cainan, 
38 Which was the son of Enos,
which was the son of Seth,
which was the son of Adam,
which was the son of God.

John 4:1-26 (KJV)

1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, 2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) 3 He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee. 4 And he must needs go through Samaria. 5 Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. 6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.

7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her,

"Give me to drink."

8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) 9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him,

"How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria?"

for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. 10 Jesus answered and said unto her,

"If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, 'Give me to drink'; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water."

11 The woman saith unto him,

"Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? 12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?"

13 Jesus answered and said unto her,

"Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life."

15 The woman saith unto him,

"Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw!" 

16 Jesus saith unto her,

"Go, call thy husband, and come hither."

17 The woman answered and said,

"I have no husband."

Jesus said unto her,

"Thou hast well said, 'I have no husband': 18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly."

19 The woman saith unto him,

"Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship."

21 Jesus saith unto her,

"Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

25 The woman saith unto him,

"I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things."

26 Jesus saith unto her,

"I that speak unto thee am he."

So, Yeshua` ("Jesus") was and STILL IS A JEW, being a grandchild however many generations removed from Yhudah ("Judah"), one of the twelve sons of Ya`aqov ("Jacob"), who was the son of Yitschaq ("Isaac"), the Son of Promise for Avraham ("Abraham")!

When we become adopted by God through His Son, Yeshua`, by His blood, we are adopted into the family of Yhudah!

Paul also said,

Romans 2:25-3:4 (KJV)

25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

So, we, too, are Jews through the blood of the Messiah Yeshua`! Yeshua` is our LINK to the Kingdom promised to the Seed of David!