There are words I have never heard in the bible

[Sparks]

16 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

The LAW  was fulfilled....obsolete is a bad word for it.

Matthew 5:  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

There are many promises in the OT that I still cling to, even though I am saved by Grace

'Obsolete' is the word used in scripture.

Hebrews 8:13 (NLT) 13 When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

The promises made in the OT are for Israel from that era, by the way. 

For just a brief moment, I thought we agreed on something.  I guess not? 

[Riverwalker]

7 minutes ago, Sparks said:

'Obsolete' is the word used in scripture.

Hebrews 8:13 (NLT) 13 When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

The promises made in the OT are for Israel from that era, by the way. 

For just a brief moment, I thought we agreed on something.  I guess not? 

Well we both agree I was wrong there.  But don't get your hopes up,   Just trying to put forth there is a lot of value in the OT, but not for salvation

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Riverwalker

[Starise]

My .000002 worth. 

Knowing what you know, could you attend the same church with everyone here and be accepting all views presented? Could you sit under a pastor who held  different views than you on subjects you felt were important? 

One God, One savior, one bible, one meaning. Men are the problem.

There are differences inside denominations with regularity. 

Jesus very apostles argued about who would be greatest.

Have you ever been friends with a brother for a long time knowing you shared the kinship of Jesus Christ and that having been enough? Do we know what everyone in our congregations believe? Often there is an assumption made everyone believes the same when they don't, yet there you are sitting with them every Sunday.

I sincerely believe ignorance is bliss in this case.

Don't dig too deep. There will be differences. If we concentrate on those differences and use them as a litmus for fellowship, are we part of the solution or part of the problem?

You are in Christ, THEY are in Christ. Does not the Spirit give us all guidance? Are we not all on different timelines to perfection (through Christ Jesus?)

 We close ourselves into boxes. Sometimes for good reasons, other times for petty ones. Let wisdom be our guide. Let the Spirit be out guide. We are told to love everyone regardless of differences. We are not commanded to agree with doctrines of devils or to quickly embrace every doctrine without study in the name of love.

Both the good and bad need identification. This identification might save you much grief. Division is good if it sets apart the good from the evil. In front of God Almighty one day only truth will matter. Did you follow truth?

 

 

[Sparks]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

Knowing what you know, could you attend the same church with everyone here and be accepting all views presented? Could you sit under a pastor who held  different views than you on subjects you felt were important?

It depends on if the message was an all out false doctrine.  

But someone wisely said that any person whose eyes you stare into is someone Jesus loves.  I try to remember that when I disagree on a topic.

[DeighAnn]

2 more cents

And it wasn't  'the law  fulfilled on the Cross and SO IT WENT AWAY'
BUT
it was the PROPHECIES 'about Christ' written in the law and the prophets that was fulfilled. 
 

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The WORD is the FIRST GIFT, the gift that draws you in or doesn't.  Written or spoken.  


FAITH COMES FROM HEARING AND HEARING THROUGH THE WORD OF GOD. THAT IS WHY WE ARE TO PREACH IT TO THE WORLD.
THEY HEAR THE WORD and it DRAWS them in and they come to faith, Faith a gift received through the gift of the Word.

So through the gift of the Word, comes the gift of faith,  through the gift of faith comes the gift of Justification and on to salvation yet ANOTHER gift.
 
Becoming a believer, we then are afforded ANOTHER Gift,  the gift of SALVATION paid for by Christs works.  

THE WORD IS GOD, GOD DRAWS IN.  And it goes out to whomsoever WOULD.  'Would or would not',  are conscience CHOICES.  

AND ALL THESE GIFTS ARE BY THE GRACE OF GOD.  


When did Jesus go back and preach to all those who had not 'known His name'? 

Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

1Peter 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

1Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1Peter 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

But not these
2Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Peter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Peter 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
2Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:


Some are CREATED FOR JUST THIS PURPOSE
2Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Peter 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Peter 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:


IS THERE ANY CHOICE?
2Peter 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2Peter 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.


2Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.



2Peter 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb,


The dog is turned to his own vomit again

and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


AND YES, SOME MUST BE PERSUADED "TO BE DRAWN"

Acts 18:2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them.
Acts 18:3 And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.


Make of it what you will

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Romans 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Romans 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Romans 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Romans 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Romans 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
Romans 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.


STANDS TO REASON THAT ONE CAN ATTAIN RIGHTEOUSNESS

IF IT IS SOUGHT BY FAITH AND

HAVING THE HOLY SPIRIT TO LEAD AND GUIDE,

SHOULD BE A WALK IN THE PARK  NOWADAYS


Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


THERE IS A 'RUNNING TOTAL', THE METERS ARE NEVER SHUT OFF

Matthew 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.



NEW TESTAMENT IS NOW

2Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Corinthians 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


 

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

That should just about everyone 

[Guest clancy]

15 hours ago, David1701 said:

The substitutionary atonement took place on the cross.  That was when Jesus bore the sins and punishments of the elect. 

Jesus does not take our place because of a choice that we make.  He has already taken the place of his elect, which is why, at the appointed time, God gives us a new heart/spirit, repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, unto salvation.

I’m confused here, not my faith,God testified that to my spirit that i am his child...so no confusion there.

Are you saying Jesus only died for the elect and not the reprobate ?..does he get to a place of giving up on them?

might sound a silly question, but I welcome all answers.?

Just found this scripture, which sounds like God can,?

Romans 1:28

Furthermore, since they did not think it worth while to retain the knowledge of God,He gave them over to the depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.???

Edited April 6, 2021 by clancy

[leah777]

4 hours ago, clancy said:

Are you saying Jesus only died for the elect and not the reprobate ?..does he get to a place of giving up on them?

when we are unsaved we are reprobates

when we accept salvation we are the elect.

same person, but moved into new life from reprobate to born again elect. 

Does that help?

[Guest clancy]

9 minutes ago, leah777 said:

when we are unsaved we are reprobates

when we accept salvation we are the elect.

same person, but moved into new life from reprobate to born again elect. 

Does that help?

Yes, I understood that Leah....what about that scripture I posted?

what does that mean?

 

Who did he give over to the depraved mind?

what does that mean?

who was he talking about?

thanks for your help in understanding sis.

[popsthebuilder]

14 hours ago, Josheb said:

The flesh. However, I believe the truth the evil one would have us ignore is that we are unity in the essentials and there is much more we have in common than that which separates us. Pessimists would have us believe otherwise. 

Certainly. That doesn't mean some of these sects are wrong and should be avoided.

"Allow"? Nothing humans allow isn't first allowed by God. 

1 Corinthians 1:10-13
"Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.  For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe's people, that there are quarrels among you.  Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ."  Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"

1 Corinthians 11:17-19
"But in giving this instruction, I do not praise you, because you come together not for the better but for the worse.  For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it.  For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you." 

James 4:1-3
"What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members?  You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; so you fight and quarrel. You do not have because you do not ask.  You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures."

Do you think someone in the forum has an answer different than the one God has already provided?

 

The facts of both scripture and Christian history is that the Church has always had some degree of division within it. The premise of unity is a myth, it has always been bad teaching. The Bible states unequivocally the Church is to be unity, and mature and Christlike (Eph. 4, for example) but in reality it has never been that way. It was not that way in Paul and James' day and it wasn't that way during the ECF era and since then there have been "restoration" movements aplenty. Each one starts with a guy who says we need to go back the New Testament Church and he's the guy with the plan and then when he receives conflict he goes off and starts his own things (or one of his followers does so for him). Those are the guys you can thank for the increase in denominationalism and sectarianism. 

Did you say the premise of unity is a false teaching!?

 

Pretty sure the Christ of GOD said otherwise.

John 10:15-16

peace

 

 

[Sparks]

1 hour ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Yes. There is the " everlasting " covenant ( Hebrews 13:10) that God made with all of His people.   ( including saved Jews) through Christ's sacrifice. Then there is the covenant specifically made with the nation of Israel which can only be kept by perfect obedience to the law ( which of course would be impossible).

Part of this I agree with, but I am not sure what you mean by Hebrews 13:10.  This is what I found there:

Hebrews 13:10-14 (NLT) 10 We have an altar from which the priests in the Tabernacled have no right to eat. 11  Under the old system, the high priest brought the blood of animals into the Holy Place as a sacrifice for sin, and the bodies of the animals were burned outside the camp. 12 So also Jesus suffered and died outside the city gates to make his people holy by means of his own blood. 13 So let us go out to him, outside the camp, and bear the disgrace he bore. 14 For this world is not our permanent home; we are looking forward to a home yet to come.

Certainly there is a covenant between God and all living things, in Genesis concerning the flood.  There are a few things like that in the OT.