There are words I have never heard in the bible

[Justin Adams]

Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel to Abraham, saying, In you shall all nations be blessed.

And when the Lord met Abram and passed thru the animals, He was known well to Abram. The pre-extant Christ (The Angel of the Lord) also appeared to Jeremiah and Samuel and many others, including Gideon. Jeremiah tells us that if you have been in the Presence of the Lord High God, in His council, then you are a prophet for sure.

[Sparks]

22 minutes ago, Eternally Gratefull said:

I just posted an OT passage which showed HOW abraham was saved. And pauls words which also showed how all people in the OT were saved.

 

What more can I do?

Yes, but that scripture does not make your point. 

Today, you need only ask for salvation as it is a free gift for taking that's possible because of Jesus' blood sacrifice on the cross.  In the days of Abraham, Jesus had not died on the cross yet, and people of that era had no idea they could accept a gift, because it didn't exist for them yet.  They didn't even know Jesus' name.

So, hypothetically, an early settler to the Nile valley has died around 3500 BC.  The guy never knew Jesus name, and is quiet dead.  Fast forward to Jesus death on the cross, 3500 years later, making the gift of salvation possible.

How does this gift extend backwards in time to the Nile valley settler?  How does that guy accept the gift when he is dead and has no faith, because he never knew Jesus?

Now, I realize that people could be saved in other ways back in that time, if God wanted them to be saved, but do you have some scripture that describes how Jesus gift is extended to that time, so long ago?

[David1701]

2 hours ago, Sparks said:

It is a shame, because I was hoping for evidence, not negative inference.   But thanks for giving it a shot.

All nations are included today in the New Covenant.  Jesus changed everything.

According to Strong's Concordance:

In Scripture, faith and belief are not exactly the same. Faith always comes from God and involves His revelation therefore faith is beyond belief!

In a general sense, each requires making a choice.  For example, if I wanted to board a flight, I would have to choose if I have faith (trust) in the plane to carry me.  I would have to choose if I believe any evidence presented, just as a court would.

It's a certainly cute idea, but I am already born again and saved.  I know accepting a gift from God saved me, and that I was not forced.  It was my choice, just as it's a person's choice to accept or decline any gift.

Surprise!  I am already saved.

I didn't mean that I was witnessing to someone who was unsaved.  I meant witnessing about certain truths, to a fellow Christian who doesn't yet believe them.

Having seen your second-last paragraph, however, I'm having serious second thoughts about that.

Quote

I know accepting a gift from God saved me, and that I was not forced.  It was my choice, just as it's a person's choice to accept or decline any gift.

You are declaring that you saved yourself, by accepting a gift, and that this was your choice.  This is categorically NOT the gospel!

Eph. 2:8-10 (EMTV)

 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
  9 not of works, so that no one may boast.
  10 For we are His handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Rom. 9:14-16 (ESV)

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means!
  15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
  16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

2 Tim. 2:25,26 (EMTV)

 25 in meekness instructing those that oppose, if God perhaps may give them repentance, to a full knowledge of the truth,
  26 and they regain their senses and escape out of the snare of the devil, having been captured alive by him to do his will. 

Phil. 1:29 (KJV) For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

If you think that you saved yourself, by making a good decision and choosing to accept a gift, then your "faith" is in yourself, which would make you an unsaved idolater.  I hope this is not the case.

Edited April 5, 2021 by David1701

[Sparks]

16 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Having seen your second-last paragraph, however, I'm having serious second thoughts about that.

Believe me, I could not care less if you think I am not saved. 

16 minutes ago, David1701 said:

You are declaring that you saved yourself, by accepting a gift, and that this was your choice.  This is categorically NOT the gospel!

Romans (called the Roman Road) both tells you how, and why you are saved when you follow the instructions.  Notice it instructs you in 9 (what to do), and shows you why it works, in 10.

Seems quite "gospel" to me. 

(ESV) Romans 10:9-10 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.  

[Eternally Gratefull]

44 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Yes, but that scripture does not make your point. 

Today, you need only ask for salvation as it is a free gift for taking that's possible because of Jesus' blood sacrifice on the cross.  In the days of Abraham, Jesus had not died on the cross yet, and people of that era had no idea they could accept a gift, because it didn't exist for them yet.  They didn't even know Jesus' name.

So, hypothetically, an early settler to the Nile valley has died around 3500 BC.  The guy never knew Jesus name, and is quiet dead.  Fast forward to Jesus death on the cross, 3500 years later, making the gift of salvation possible.

How does this gift extend backwards in time to the Nile valley settler?  How does that guy accept the gift when he is dead and has no faith, because he never knew Jesus?

Now, I realize that people could be saved in other ways back in that time, if God wanted them to be saved, but do you have some scripture that describes how Jesus gift is extended to that time, so long ago?

Again you are not reading the text.

 

Abraham believed.

I believed

David believed

I assume you believed.

 

We are saved by Grace through faith

Abraham was saved by Grace through faith

David was saved by Grace through Faith

You are saved by Grace through faith (if your saved)

 

 

[Sparks]

Just now, Eternally Gratefull said:

Abraham believed.

I believed

David believed

I assume you believed.

What did the guy in the Nile valley believe, having no idea Jesus existed?

So, I expect no scripture to back the theory that the Nile valley guy is saved by Jesus' blood?

[leah777]

20 minutes ago, Sparks said:

What did the guy in the Nile valley believe, having no idea Jesus existed?

So, I expect no scripture to back the theory that the Nile valley guy is saved by Jesus' blood?

He didnt need to be. Jesus is God. God saved certain people before Jesus death judging the righteous. 

[David1701]

30 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Believe me, I could not care less if you think I am not saved. 

Romans (called the Roman Road) both tells you how, and why you are saved when you follow the instructions.  Notice it instructs you in 9 (what to do), and shows you why it works, in 10.

Seems quite "gospel" to me. 

(ESV) Romans 10:9-10 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.  

Yes; but, there is nothing here about saving yourself; there is nothing here about saving yourself by making a choice; there is nothing here about faith being generated by yourself, etc, etc.. 

There is nothing that anyone can DO to save himself.  Salvation is by God's grace, through faith, and that not of ourselves, so that no-one may boast.

[Sparks]

1 minute ago, leah777 said:

He didnt need to be. Jesus is God. God saved certain people before Jesus death judging the righteous. 

I am looking for a scripture that supports Eternally Greatful's theory.  I realize God can do absolutely anything He wishes, but Eternally's theory is that Jesus' gift of salvation is somehow extended to those in the past, prior to Jesus' sacrifice.  Jesus' sacrifice most definitely extended to future generations, but I see no evidence of it extending back in time.

I open minded, but it would take direct scripture to convince me. 

[Sparks]

Just now, David1701 said:

Yes; but, there is nothing here about saving yourself; there is nothing here about saving yourself by making a choice; there is nothing here about faith being generated by yourself, etc, etc.. 

There is nothing that anyone can DO to save himself.  Salvation is by God's grace, through faith, and that not of ourselves, so that no-one may boast.

I didn't say I saved myself.  Jesus did that.  I said I chose to accept His gift.