There are words I have never heard in the bible

[David1701]

45 minutes ago, leah777 said:

before we are saved - we are unregenerate sinners

then we are saved

there must be something which changed the first into the second, a change of heart, desire, focus. something happens to make that change of direction.

That something is God's work in our lives.

[David1701]

56 minutes ago, SONshine said:

Do you know who these Pharisees were?  Do you know who their father (little “f”) was?  Of course they were not sheep...never could be!  ....never in a million years!  Can you guess where they’re going?

Yes; but, that was not my point.

Can you guess what my point was?

[Sparks]

1 hour ago, leah777 said:

before we are saved - we are unregenerate sinners

then we are saved

there must be something which changed the first into the second, a change of heart, desire, focus. something happens to make that change of direction.

Why do you think simply hearing the Good News is not how? 

[leah777]

1 minute ago, Sparks said:

Why do you think simply hearing the Good News is not how? 

many heard the Gospel in Jesus time, even heard it from Jesus Himself, but were not saved. They did not change direction. There must be more than simply hearing the words spoken.

[Sower]

1 hour ago, leah777 said:

before we are saved - we are unregenerate sinners

then we are saved

there must be something which changed the first into the second, a change of heart, desire, focus. something happens to make that change of direction.

Some say it's a limited calling from the Holy Spirit.
I was lost. I heard a verse of scripture sown by a faithful believer.
and the word was God......
The seed/word was planted. Something within me sparked a desire to keep searching.
More seeds/word/light/truth. I repented.
I changed my thinking.
Light exposed the darkness that was within me.
The seeds were watered, and a child was born.

From that one seed/scripture from a faithful believer, my wife and I were saved.
             I must be born again to enter heaven.
 

[Sparks]

5 minutes ago, leah777 said:

many heard the Gospel in Jesus time, even heard it from Jesus Himself, but were not saved. They did not change direction. There must be more than simply hearing the words spoken.

Yeah, it's a matter of choice.  Some people literally choose hell.  Some people were actually a witnesses to Jesus death, and then later saw Jesus is in town high-fiving the crowd, but they still didn't choose the gift.

That's what freewill is all about.  God could force us to choose Him easily, but He doesn't.

[leah777]

2 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Neither is there any verse anywhere in the Bible stating there is a moment in the unregenerate sinner's life of intermediate state wherein we are not yet saved but freed from the bondage of sin just enough to choose

I am not meaning anything about that. I mean that moment between salvation and unregenerate. Not to do with a time of being free from sin between states.

A person can be unregenerate, then something happens and Jesus is revealed to him in his heart and he realises God. What causes that? Who causes that sudden change from death to life? 

I remember vividly the moment of change, but still do not know why THAT moment, instead of many other times when I knew of gospel. Perhaps it is different for each, just as each birth is different. 

[leah777]

5 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Yeah, it's a matter of choice.  Some people literally choose hell.  Some people were actually a witnesses to Jesus death, and then later saw Jesus is in town high-fiving the crowd, but they still didn't choose the gift.

That's what freewill is all about.  God could force us to choose Him easily, but He doesn't.

I cannot find my words enough to explain, but I dont think it is mans choice. I think God sees us and chooses the time and place for us when He knows we are ready. For some, they are never ready. 

God is Love, perhaps is part of the way God lives outside of human time and can dip in and out of timestreams, so he can be in our past and future at the same time, knowing our end and beginning, knowing who will say yes. Paradox.

 

[Sparks]

1 minute ago, leah777 said:

I cannot find my words enough to explain, but I dont think it is mans choice. I think God sees us and chooses the time and place for us when He knows we are ready. For some, they are never ready. 

Why do you think a person cannot make choice based on hearing the Good News? 

[Sparks]

Just now, Josheb said:

Because that verse was written by a regenerate believer to regenerate believers about regenerate believers and those living in an already-existing covenant relationship with a God in Whom they already believe! 

Romans 10:5-18 ESV
"For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them.  But the righteousness based on faith says, 'Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down)  or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).  But what does it say? 'The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart' (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);  because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.  For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.  For the Scripture says, 'Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.'  For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.  For 'everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'  How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?  And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, 'How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!'  But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, 'Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?'  So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.  But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for 'Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.'”

Paul is not writing to unregenerate non-believers.
Paul is not writing about atheists. 

It is inappropriate to apply those words to those to whom they do not apply. 

People who do not believe Jesus exists do not confess with their mouth "Jesus is Lord!" 
People who do not believe any God exists do not believe in their heart God raised Jesus from the dead.
People who do not believe the Lord exists cannot possibly call upon a non-existent Lord. 

Non-believers are not believers. 

It is axiomatic. 

 

But the synergist emphasizes the hearing (after all, everyone has ears, don't they? Anyone can hear!) and from there the will. The trouble is some are ever hearing but never understanding. Scripture says God made it that way, "lest the repent and be healed." He said that about those He Himself had chosen! How could anything less apply to those He has not chosen? The scriptures say it is God who gives hearing (Pr. 20:12; Rom. 11:18). 

 

That is why simply hearing the good news is not enough. 

 

Worked for me, and millions of others.