There are words I have never heard in the bible

[Sparks]

2 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Where on Earth did you get that from???

The issue is not whether or not man chooses (of course he does).  The issue is the condition of his heart.  A fallen, sinful heart will always choose to sin, because that is its nature.  This is why we MUST be born again, in order to see and enter the kingdom of God, by faith in Jesus Christ.

I am not sure how this counters the idea that we have freewill to choose anything, including the time after we are born again.  We are still susceptible to temptation so long as we are in the flesh, but we ultimately choose to sin when we sin.

As the famous Rush lyric from the song Free Will says, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."  We have freewill to make choices, for good or bad.

[Guest clancy]

13 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

That much is obvious

But you can resist being drawn or ignore a call

I just can't fathom how or why God would ever let anyone be born to be damned without giving them a chance of redemption

 

I could not resist the call....my heart was open and I fell in love with the Holy Spirit as he was indwelling me, testifying to my Spirit.

As Leah said I was probably not aware of choosing. Because it happened so naturally.it was pure and beautiful, my spirit recognised His straight away.

Edited April 4, 2021 by clancy

[David1701]

17 minutes ago, Sparks said:

I am not sure how this counters the idea that we have freewill to choose anything, including the time after we are born again.  We are still susceptible to temptation so long as we are in the flesh, but we ultimately choose to sin when we sin.

As the famous Rush lyric from the song Free Will says, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."  We have freewill to make choices, for good or bad.

I don't think that you understand the issue.  All you are really saying is that we have a will and that we make choices.  Everyone agrees with that.

The thing is that it is the state of our heart that determines what choices we will make.  It is our nature that determines the kind of will that we have.  An unregenerate sinner has a sinful heart that makes sinful choices.  He WILL NOT choose to repent and believe in Jesus Christ (not that faith is ever said to be produced by our choice anyway).  He WILL choose to sin.

[Alive]

I have said the following before.....

Its my sense that we have a limited 'free will' earthward, but have no 'free will' Godward relative to our being regenerated. Subsequent to regeneration we have limited free will Godward.

But most surely 'limited' in all cases.

[David1701]

29 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

That much is obvious

But you can resist being drawn or ignore a call

 

 

You cannot resist God's effectual drawing unto salvation.

John 6:44 (WEB) No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day. 

The one who is drawn is also raised up at the last day.  This is effectual and it is God's doing.

Quote

I just can't fathom how or why God would ever let anyone be born to be damned without giving them a chance of redemption

There is no such thing as a "chance of redemption".  Jesus redeemed his people (he accomplished it, not merely made it possible), when shed his blood and died on the cross.  That redemption is applied, to the elect, in God's perfect timing.

Your statement seems to show that your problem is that you are going by your feelings, rather than biblical facts.

[David1701]

3 minutes ago, Alive said:

I have said the following before.....

Its my sense that we have a limited 'free will' earthward, but have no 'free will' Godward relative to our being regenerated. Subsequent to regeneration we have limited free will Godward.

But most surely 'limited' in all cases.

What do you mean by "limited 'free will'"?

In any given set of circumstances (internal and external), you can only ever make one choice (the one that accords with your state of mind, feelings, desires, abilities, etc. at that moment).  If it were otherwise, then you would be yourself and someone else simultaneously, which is impossible.

Edited April 4, 2021 by David1701

[Alive]

1 minute ago, David1701 said:

What do you mean by "limited 'free will'"?

In any given set of circumstances (internal and external), you can only ever make one choice (the one that accords with your state of mind, feelings, desires, abilities, etc. at that moment).  If it were otherwise, then you would be yourself and someone else simultaneously, which is impossible.

I mean that we aren't capable of doing or being whatever we want--in any case.

We are limited. God installed a 'governor'--an RPM limiter.

:-)

[Guest clancy]

13 minutes ago, David1701 said:

You cannot resist God's effectual drawing unto salvation.

John 6:44 (WEB) No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day. 

The one who is drawn is also raised up at the last day.  This is effectual and it is God's doing.

There is no such thing as a "chance of redemption".  Jesus redeemed his people (he accomplished it, not merely made it possible), when shed his blood and died on the cross.  That redemption is applied, to the elect, in God's perfect timing.

Your statement seems to show that your problem is that you are going by your feelings, rather than biblical facts.

A Big Amen to that!!!!

[Sparks]

30 minutes ago, David1701 said:

I don't think that you understand the issue.  All you are really saying is that we have a will and that we make choices.  Everyone agrees with that.

The thing is that it is the state of our heart that determines what choices we will make.  It is our nature that determines the kind of will that we have.  An unregenerate sinner has a sinful heart that makes sinful choices.  He WILL NOT choose to repent and believe in Jesus Christ (not that faith is ever said to be produced by our choice anyway).  He WILL choose to sin.

I was an atheist for 74% of my life, yet given the choice to sin in those days, I didn't always choose to sin.  I certainly had plenty of opportunities to sin, but I didn't always choose that path.  I think that counters your prior post that says my sinful heart would always choose sin.  Mine didn't.

I also chose Jesus' Gift.  It's not that I was not receptive to Jesus decades prior, it was that I could not find a single Christian who knew what that were talking about to describe who Jesus was or what He did, at the time.  That was real shame because when you hear from dozens of people who were effectively clueless, it was difficult to take their cause seriously. 

The problem was no one could articulate what choice I was supposed to make, or even describe what was at stake, and most of all no one actually used the helpful words "Jesus is God."  At the time for me, Jesus was just some dude that lived long ago and so you can imagine how little I cared that he died for me as the idea had no meaning to an atheist.  Died for what, I thought?  No one could tell me.

Satan assures that there is a lot of misinformation available for those who are still blind, and a lot of bad paths.  It's more difficult than ever to show the true path, but once shown, a person must choose to take that path on their own.  Freewill dictates it.

[Riverwalker]

32 minutes ago, David1701 said:

You cannot resist God's effectual drawing unto salvation.

John 6:44 (WEB) No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day. 

This scripture does not say we cannot resist