When was Satan kicked out of heaven?

[Starise]

20 hours ago, 1to3 said:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1).

The phrase "heavens and the earth" refers to the entire universe. This would include all the separate parts. The creation of angels would seemingly be included in this statement.

 God spoke to Job saying:

Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. . . when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38: 4,7).

The term "sons of God" is one of the many designations for angels, as the Book of Job earlier states.

One day the "sons of God" came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them (Job 1:6).

Everything was created in six days. This, of course, would include the angels.

for by Him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers - all things have been created through Him and for Him (Colossians 1:16).

 

The time of the creation of angels is something that the Bible does not specifically mention.  What we do know from scripture from the Holy Bible: Angelic existence was before the creation of humans but is within the creation period.

 

 

 

 

 

I know from past posts with you that you are aware there are different translations for "heaven". I think this is referring to the physical heaven (Gen 1:1) since the earth is included and is a physical product. The "other" heaven the angels occupy is different, so this makes an argument based on this text moot.

Job 38:4-7 actually supports the view angels were present before earthly creation. I mean. If they were here they were created already.

EVERYTHING in the physical heavens and earth was created in 6 days. Disclaimer being "in the physical heavens and earth". What did God make outside of that? God had company in the beginning of heavenly/earthly creation. You  say angels were made at the same time as creation of earth. I would disagree. Job 38 tells us that is not the case. 

In an attempt to leave no stone unturned, it is POSSIBLE God made angels at different times and might have decided to make more later. We don't really know. What we do know is the bible doesn't say God stopped making angels for all eternity. This is yet another assumption with no basis.Who knows? Maybe He decided to replace the missing angels that rebelled.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Starise

[Starise]

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Try it on as just a story right now,  and see if it has a natural flow in the order of events.   

God created a host making His kingdom in heaven and there was no earth as of yet.  

God created the earth FOR Himself and them to live upon.  

Lucifer a created cherub, WAS MADE BY GOD AS THE WISEST, MOST BEAUTIFUL, of all He ever created, those being the morning stars and sons of God.  AND Lucifer became or was ordained as a king.  His kingdom is described as having 7  heads -'princes'- 'crowns' and wielded even more power.  

Then came a day when looking around at all 'he' had done (no longer able to see God being the creator of it all)  he wanted more.  He wanted to BE LIKE GOD.  Worshipped as God.  And so he started convincing those of the kingdom to worship him and not God.  

And God got upset.  And instead of saying 'DONE'  and all the host and Satan everything disappearing forever He destroyed the 'playground' and things went back as they were before.  

Then God said, I am going to put each soul into his own body on earth, made up of earth, and give each one a chance to do what ever they so choose.  

REMEMBER, in the beginning there was no earth  so as for the 'host in heaven' WE CAN BE SURE THEY WERE NOT FLESH, BUT SPIRITUAL,  not only when created

but also WHEN on the earth that first time before it was destroyed.  

And God brought back the light and here we are.  

Questions answered

Where did Satan come from?  

How did God love one and hate one?  

How did God know Jeremiah?

How are some 'pre justified' while others are not?

How can a 'baby' be judged?

Why are 'men' a little lower than the angels?  

What was the 'habitation' the fallen angels left?  Does being 'born of water' then have more than one meaning? 

How is it we RETURN to the ONE who gave it?  


WHAT IS THE WAR THAT IS RAGING ALL THROUGH the generations?  

DUST OF THE DIRT IS low down dirty beneath the feet of everyone.  It is a position far from sitting upon the throne of a king.    



 

No offense but like a few others I can tell our brains work a little differently and that's really a good thing!  My brain is probably the odd one out lol. Some of the questions you asked I don't tie into this directly and seem to be more periphery ideas. Not bad. Not good. Just there as outside thoughts.

-How did God love one hate one?

Sorry you lost me there. One of what?

-How did God know Jeremiah?

He made him. That one was simple to answer.

-How are some pre justified while others are not?

You really want to touch that one here?  I think it makes a false assumption all depending on the application. How this directly ties into the line of the thread I'm not sure?

How can a baby be judged?

I see no relevance whatsoever?  This probably leads to another topic with a long explanation.

Why are men a little lower than the angels?

I'll take a stab at that one. Because Yahweh took much of our capability away at the fall. Remember Adam walked with God. This also leads to another question. Do you mean positionally or in terms of power or ability? 

I understand you say these questions are already answered. I guess I just lost you there. I don't understand all of the questions let alone assume I know the answers to them 

[1to3]

 

 

Well I gave you my thoughts from what I have understood from reading scripture.

Here is another:

John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Can you see beauty and pure good wisdom from this bible verse description of fallen Lucifer? I certainly cannot

Again he is called now an angel of deception, of false light, he can appear one way but it is not how he truly looks like, how his true essence of character has become since the fall.

Do you disagree?

 

 

 

31 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

agree there is no good in Satan.  I think I misunderstood what you were saying as I thought you were saying his 'appearance' would come across as 'ugly' to those who will see him,  which I don't believe.  I do believe he will still 'appear' beautiful.  His wisdom is fully intact it just works against God, not for Him. 

Good day DeighAnn, in Christ Jesus! ,

I have not change my opinion, I do believe Lucifer changed when he became filled with pride and got corrupted. When you get corrupted with sin it works in you.

Gods Holy Words in scripture says that  Lucifer =satan turned from something good to something bad and corrupt.  But that he can present himself still as an angel of Light so to deceive. Even though Lucifer=satan now can transform himself into and angel of light, he still remains and will forever be ugly and his wisdom corrupted.

Lucifers wisdom  the bible says is craftiness.  Craftiness is not a good type of wisdom, because it falls short of Gods pure and Holy wisdom.

Craftiness:shrewdness as demonstrated by being skilled in deception. cunning, foxiness, guile, slyness, wiliness, craft. astuteness, perspicaciousness, perspicacity, shrewdness - intelligence manifested by being astute (as in business dealings)

Lucifers wisdom changed from good wisdom to crafty wisdom, his beauty also changed from pure beauty to deceptive beauty.

Isaiah ,Isaiah 14:16says it well when he states that there is not much to look upon the to true likes of what has become of lucifer satan, and to think he managed to fool so many :

Lucifer changed after the fall, he is now known as satan or at least refereed to as satan in the Holy Bible.

So. yes I see his appearance and wisdom having been changed by his corruption.

How else can I explain? there was a story whether true or not, is not the point)  about Michael Angelo looking to paint Christ, , he looked for a model that appeared wholesome and found one,  and painted a pure wholesome portrait representing Christ, than some years later he was looking for another model to paint  Judas,  and he found the perfect model, This model was the same man who years before looked wholesome, now this same model looked corrupted and harsh, by the corrupted lifestyle he lived.

what I am trying to say? you cannot retain  Pure beauty and pure untainted Godly wisdom when your are completely corrupted inside. Its not possible, or yes it is possible only by means of deception.

I hope you understand me a little better.

 

 

[1to3]

Top of the day to you Starise, in Christ Jesus! Amen!

52 minutes ago, Starise said:

It isn't only the New Agers who think Satan is good. Most who follow the occult discount the bible and paint Satan as a benevolent being. How else could they manage to worship him? Not too many people would follow an evil being that was out to get them.

New AGE is not NEW, it was a term coined in the sixties to revive the old OCCULT practices and  re-wrapped and packaged to look appealing to this generation.

New Age same as = OCCULT

56 minutes ago, Starise said:

So far as the names given to Satan/ Lucifer. I mostly keep it to either Satan or Lucifer because pretty much everyone in the western world knows who we are talking about.

Yes  most understand by those names. However in the bible  Lucifer is only referred to as Lucifer -if I remember- only once in the old testament, he is referred to as satan in the new testament.

For me, in my mind, I view the name Lucifer to nice to give to corrupted satan. Lucifer once was beautiful and full of  Godly wisdom from God than he got corrupted to something not of God: ugly and crafty and the bible refers to someone like that as satan.

[DeighAnn]

On 4/12/2021 at 4:29 PM, Shua3000 said:

Does the Bible mention if Satan was banned from heaven before Adam and Eve bit from the forbidden fruit? Was it Satan that influenced Eve to bite the fruit. Was was the fruit really? 

SO maybe the question should be 'when was Satan banned from the earth' to where he is now.  



Satan's FALL from grace had to come about before the garden, as he is already called the Serpent,  but he was not kicked out of heaven. 


23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

 

as we see him free to come and go
AFTER the 7 days of creation

Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

We know he tempted Christ at the beginning of Christs ministry. 

Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


We see him enter Judas. 


Then we see Christ rebuking him and after these Satan is only seen in heaven (AS far as I know of) 

Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Mark 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.


 

And then he is kicked out

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

[Starise]

1 minute ago, 1to3 said:

Top of the day to you Starise, in Christ Jesus! Amen!

New AGE is not NEW, it was a term coined in the sixties to revive the old OCCULT practices and  re-wrapped and packaged to look appealing to this generation.

New Age same as = OCCULT

Yes  most understand by those names. However in the bible  Lucifer is only referred to as Lucifer -if I remember- only once in the old testament, he is referred to as satan in the new testament.

For me, in my mind, I view the name Lucifer to nice to give to corrupted satan. Lucifer once was beautiful and full of  Godly wisdom from God than he got corrupted to something not of God: ugly and crafty and the bible refers to someone like that as satan.

Ok 1t03, I think we are officially splitting hairs over inconsequentials. 

I won't go round you in the ring over this. Of course if it all comes from the same sources it's all the same thing.

They are the same but they aren't the same. You really wanna ride this horse?

People who pursue the occult don't call themselves New Agers. People who pursue New Age or similar don't think they are into the occult. I mean if you want to worship Satan you look for Satan. If you want to connect with the healers, guiding spirits, get some kind of a revelation that you think are coming from good sources that see Jesus as just another good man, you go New Age. 

Same results in the end. Different approaches. Different approaches are part of multiple deceptions. If a person goes to an occult ritual I seriously doubt they are looking for fluffy pink unicorns. The expectation is different. Satan (or others)provides what they think they want.

[Starise]

22 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

Again he is called now an angel of deception, of false light, he can appear one way but it is not how he truly looks like, how his true essence of character has become since the fall.

Do you disagree?

 

No.

[1to3]

 

49 minutes ago, Starise said:

Job 38:4-7 actually supports the view angels were present before earthly creation. I mean. If they were here they were created already.

From  Genesis we get the story of the beggining or all and also from John chapter 1

In the begginging of Everything was God, the Father , Son Holy Spirit

Than the CREATION= making of things began =Everything that is existing  after the IAM IS. So the cosmos or universe began to be created. You have to start somewhere.

The bible in Genesis says that all this happened in 7 days and explains how God went abut creating all.

Now in the bible stars are referred to angelic beings, and in genesis, he made the stars on the fourth day.

So yes, the angelic realm where rejoicing and clapped  in amazement to see the rest being created in front of their eyes.

The bible does not give much reference to angels and corrupted angels before God began the making of everything.

As you know their are so many books that give all kinds of speculations.

I was not there and being a bible believing Christian I make a firm stand to stick with what Gods Word says and not add or take away from that.

The only possible place that could suggest otherwise other than the reference of Job you give is what Peter wrote. But here again, it is not 100% clear, at least not to me at this point.

And honestly for me what matters is that there was a time when God Created and ALL was GOOD.  Is that not marvelous? I mean that is extraordinarily wonderful, beautiful, amazing! Glory be to God.

That corruption came into the picture: was a sad day.It was a day that changed everything,It change all that were touched by corruption and it consequence

That is enough for me to be satisfied with and keep hoping to one day reunite with God-Complete wonderful marvelous GOODness.

This is my only hope,that I hold unto most preciously.

 

[Starise]

30 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

 

From  Genesis we get the story of the beggining or all and also from John chapter 1

In the begginging of Everything was God, the Father , Son Holy Spirit

Than the CREATION= making of things began =Everything that is existing  after the IAM IS. So the cosmos or universe began to be created. You have to start somewhere.

The bible in Genesis says that all this happened in 7 days and explains how God went abut creating all.

Now in the bible stars are referred to angelic beings, and in genesis, he made the stars on the fourth day.

So yes, the angelic realm where rejoicing and clapped  in amazement to see the rest being created in front of their eyes.

The bible does not give much reference to angels and corrupted angels before God began the making of everything.

As you know their are so many books that give all kinds of speculations.

I was not there and being a bible believing Christian I make a firm stand to stick with what Gods Word says and not add or take away from that.

The only possible place that could suggest otherwise other than the reference of Job you give is what Peter wrote. But here again, it is not 100% clear, at least not to me at this point.

And honestly for me what matters is that there was a time when God Created and ALL was GOOD.  Is that not marvelous? I mean that is extraordinarily wonderful, beautiful, amazing! Glory be to God.

That corruption came into the picture: was a sad day.It was a day that changed everything,It change all that were touched by corruption and it consequence

That is enough for me to be satisfied with and keep hoping to one day reunite with God-Complete wonderful marvelous GOODness.

This is my only hope,that I hold unto most preciously.

 

I respect your views. Mine might be slightly different.

In the Beginning GOD........I guess this is all we really need to know. At least for me.

I admit I enjoy digging for answers. I tend to see other possibilities sometimes that don't negate scripture. Mine would probably not be the accepted popular opinion on some subjects. My opinions are often based on my comfort level with saying a concrete YES about something that to me isn't really expressly concrete in terms of where I am on any particular study. I don't give myself a green light until I KNOW. Until then it's a best answer (for me). 

Thanks brother for your input here.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Starise

[1to3]

10 minutes ago, Starise said:

Ok 1t03, I think we are officially splitting hairs over inconsequentials. 

I won't go round you in the ring over this. Of course if it all comes from the same sources it's all the same thing.

They are the same but they aren't the same. You really wanna ride this horse?

People who pursue the occult don't call themselves New Agers. People who pursue New Age or similar don't think they are into the occult. I mean if you want to worship Satan you look for Satan. If you want to connect with the healers, guiding spirits, get some kind of a revelation that you think are coming from good sources that see Jesus as just another good man, you go New Age. 

Same results in the end. Different approaches. Different approaches are part of multiple deceptions. If a person goes to an occult ritual I seriously doubt they are looking for fluffy pink unicorns. The expectation is different. Satan (or others)provides what they think they want.

 The occult can be seen as a false light: It is deceptive any way it is presented; Its goal is the same:

to steal, kill and destroy

It is meant to be deceptive, so it will not always come right in the open to say it is pure evil.

It is cunning and comes with a lure meant to deceive and bring the person under its influence.

The illuminati, the chabalists, the hindu meditaitons, yoga, the church of satan, the RCC, the NAR,  and other... they are ALL working with the same evil kindalini snake spirit.

Not everyone who goes to such practices is always fully aware of the snare and trap they are getting into, and for some it will be their downfall, for others by Gods Grace they will come out and live for Christ Jesus.

I agree with you: same result in the end.