Has The Church Dropped the Ball ?

[NITE OWL]

Matt. 17:19,20 Talks about the disciples unable to cast out a demon. They asked why? Christ's answer was they lacked faith.

These are people who walked with Christ. They witnessed all the things He did and yet they lacked faith.

Peter lacked the faith to walk on water when Christ was just a few feet away.

"Your faith has made you whole...it is done according to your faith...if you have faith as a mustard seed you can move mountains".

The doctrine of Christ is all faith based. He's not going to give us signs so that we may believe. Why should He? His disciples at times even doubted Him. How much better are we than them?

You hear alot of people say "no matter what happens, I will never deny Him". Peter was with Him for how long? He even said he wouldn't deny Him, but when the going got rough what did he say?... Three times.

There are miracles that happen every day. We don't see them because they're not front page news. I have personally witnessed God's hand at work. I've seen some of the things He can do. I've been pulled from the hand of death on three different occasions and the doctors couldn't tell me why. I saw a man crushed to death. He woke up in the morgue wearing a toe tag. It wasn't a fluke. 13 tons of steel rolled over on this man. He was dead.

Didn't Magic Johnson have HIV at one time and now he doesn't?

I don't know. I don't look for signs. I don't need them. I know when the time comes He'll be there by my side to help me with whatever. I've seen what the hand of God can do, I don't need to see any more.

It's all about faith. What more can I say?

[Gerioke]

There was a thread a month or two ago that covered the miracles happening in the third world. Christians were meeting in caves and working miracles and raising the dead. I will see if I can find it.

[apothanein kerdos]

If you want a sign of faith then look to a child learning to read the Bible. If you want a sign look to the former drug addict that is now leading worship. If you want a sign look to the broken man being made complete.

In our quest for the extrodinary we have completely forgotten about the extrodinarily "mundane". In our quest for signs, we have over looked the most obvious and moving ones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These are signs, and good ones, they prove the power, and Grace of the Holy Spirit, in fact, I'm living proof of God's grace.

What I mean is the specific signs that would accompany the preaching of the Gospel. Like Jesus carefully taught;

Matthew

10:7,8 "And as you go, preach, saying, ' the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, raise the dead, clense the lepers, freely you have received, freely give'."

Mark

16:20 " And they went out and preached everywhere while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed."

These are signs I'm talking about, where are we taught that these are no longer needed? I think they are needed now just as much as then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Matthew 10 was to the 70 disciples, not to us. Mark 16 is Hebrew hyperbole.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How are we different than the 70 ?

6:12, 13 "And they went out and preached that men should repent, and they were casting out many demons, and were anointing with oil many sick people and healing them."

16:15 "And He said to them ' go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation."

And how are we different than those above who were told to go into all the world and do what Jesus said to do ? What are we to do today, just pass out tracts and let it go at that ? I'm talking about the power that Jesus said we would have to preach the Gospel with the confirmation by the acts of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is our example, and He used a bit more than words.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The 70 were to announce Messiah was among them. The miralces provided evidence. We are to announce the Messiah has come. Our faith is the evidence.

Also, miracles, as we see in the Bible, simply would not work in our culture. Our culture is too critical of such things and would explain them away, so there is no need for them. In 3rd world countries where they would be open to it, we see miracles happening.

[roc_rus]

First off hello all, new here. What I believe is that God wants the signs and wonders to follow His believers. If this were not so He would not have stated so in His Word. Becasue He says it we desire it. I often ask my Father what is it that the present church has lost that the first church had? And to say these miracles would not work or would be explained away in our cultrure is denying Gods ability to out wit/out think/out operate His creation. It is lack of belief and our intimacy with God that has hindered us really tapping into what He is calling us to, and our so called advanced society is what has us occupied with all the wrong things.

[HisWordIsSufficient]

Yes, many churches have certainly dropped the ball. But not all.

It's because theyve either lost respect and reverence for the Lord or there preacing has turned to "self-esteem" preaching and the emphasis is on church growth instead of Christ centred sermons and basing there church focus on simply God himself. They have unity at the expense of truth.

If your church is like this... GET OUT!!!!!

I did and ive never looked back. Turn to whats important. You dont need signs or wonders or counselling from the pulpit. You need The Word of God, Jesus, worship. A Christ centred Church.

[Pilgrim7]

Amen Bluebird!!!!

Self esteem, the great Pagan Doctrine.

LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

LUKE 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Job 23:12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary [food].

2COR 12:11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.

GAL 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

PHIL 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

God bless,

Dennis

[Franky67]

Matt. 17:19,20  Talks about the disciples unable to cast out a demon. They asked why? Christ's answer was they lacked faith.

I don't know. I don't look for signs. I don't need them. I know when the time comes He'll be there by my side to help me with whatever. I've seen what the hand of God can do, I don't need to see any more.

It's all about faith. What more can I say?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think I need to see what Jesus promised, in the way of signs following the preaching of the word either, if we're just preaching to the choir, but unbelievers do need to see them, and to a lot of us believers, it sure would help build our faith.

Jesus said it would happen, and it needs to be happening, we need to quit making excuses for it's not happening, and leave room in our services for it to happen, John the Baptist said to make way for Jesus, we need to make way for the Holy Spirit to confirm the word like Jesus says all through the New Testament.

I made a study of all I could find along these lines, maybe I need to post them.

super jew, you said;

"The 70 were to announce Messiah was among them. The miralces provided evidence. We are to announce the Messiah has come. Our faith is the evidence."

Jesus didn't teach this, it's our faith that expects the Holy Spirit to do what Jesus said He would do, and that's confirm the preaching of the word with signs following.

Any thing less is not the full Gospel.

Yes, many churches have certainly dropped the ball. But not all.

It's because theyve either lost respect and reverence for the Lord or there preacing has turned to "self-esteem" preaching and the emphasis is on church growth instead of Christ centred sermons and basing there church focus on simply God himself. They have unity at the expense of truth.

If your church is like this... GET OUT!!!!!

I did and ive never looked back. Turn to whats important. You dont need signs or wonders or counselling from the pulpit. You need The Word of God, Jesus, worship. A Christ centred Church.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know some do, but if we all just swapped churches for that reason, I don't think it would solve the problem.

I encourage my pastor as much as I can.

[Heartland]

Interesting question!

Whats wrong with the Churchs these days? Thats an easy question!! Most of them have become entertainment centers. The Holy Bible is not high on the list of priorities. Churchs try to compete with the world and try to make church fun, fun, fun.... A place that needs to be serious since we deal with life and death matters! Not to mention what needs to be done for eternity!!! SALVATION!!

A church should be a place to worship God and learn his word, and sing His beautiful songs, not this rotten rock music that comes straight out of Hell!!

Speaking of hell, satan loves it when he can convince people to drag in these things into a church service...it promotes HIS cause. His desire is that everyone should perish!!

Here is a verse for you: 2 Timothy 3 vs 1, This know also that in the last days perilous time shall come... and so they have!!

What do you think? Heartland

[NITE OWL]

Do you really think people would be running to God if they saw some miracles?

The people who murdered Christ witnessed His miracles first hand, with their own eyes, standing just a few feet away from Him. And yet they killed Him. The romans could find no guilt in Him but the people who witnessed His countless miracles said "LET HIM BE CRUCIFIED"

The teaching's of Christ are faith based. How many times did Christ say that their healings were a result of their faith?

Signs mean nothing. In this day and age with all the gadgets and computers and software, anyone can perform a miracle.

If you need a sign to boost your faith....

[Franky67]

Do you really think people would be running to God if they saw some miracles?

It's not what I think that's important, it's what Jesus taught. He knew some would not believe, yet He said to the unbelieving Jews in John 10:37,38 If I do not do the works of my Father, do not believe me."

The people who murdered Christ witnessed His miracles first hand, with their own eyes, standing just a few feet away from Him. And yet they killed Him. The romans could find no guilt in Him but the people who witnessed His countless miracles said "LET HIM BE CRUCIFIED"

Again, what my point is, today WE ARE NOT PREACHING THE WORD LIKE JESUS TAUGHT US TO.

The teaching's of Christ are faith based. How many times did Christ say that their healings were a result of their faith?

Signs mean nothing. In this day and age with all the gadgets and computers and software, anyone can perform a miracle.

How can you say "signs mean nothing' ? Why did Jesus spend three years teachings His disciples to preach the Gospel, and that signs would confirm the word?

What is wrong with the signs of our God? Peter and John thought signs were OK in Acts 4:29, 30