Is this fair? ( Covid Q.)

[Alive]

I have only one thing to say about these non-vaccines: nobody on earth knows what the affects will be to individuals or the population at large over time. Nobody.

This is a human trial.

These two statements cannot be successfully debated and given the voracity of them, every thinking individual should behave accordingly.

Your body--your choice. Or are they?

[Starise]

3 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

1st  I believe the numbers are super inflated, that many deaths were ascribed to it that wasn't the cause and that many people who were sick were made worse by it

Chances are if a person enters an emergency ward and needs a breathing tube they have the virus. I would say the results were slightly skewed not hyper inflated. I think some people have a short memory that the US was India not long ago. Apparently you live in a rural location and have not seen the full extent of the virus first hand. What to you would be inflated? Was it 80% instead of 90%? All we can say with absolute certainty is hospitals all over the world were over run with people who needed breathing tubes to stay alive and many of those people died. Something like 500,000 died in the US alone.

If 20 people died in your community out of 5000 from a fatal disease and the doc had medicine that would render you 95% immune would you reject the vaccine because only 20 people died or get the medicine? Are you willing to be person 21? Numbers were significantly high earlier here in the US. Many people who pass these judgments have been sufficiently insulated from the face of the tragedy. They see it as something far off that doesn't affect them so they make these detached statements. Where it hits home is when it happens to be your son, daughter,wife or other loved one.

13 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

2nd I have no faith that the vaccines are safe or are the answer, they were rushed out by politicians and people who want to make a lot of money whose agendas are really not the common good.

The vaccines were not made by politicians they were made by pharmaceutical engineers.Should we refuse a vaccine simply because we dislike the way it was handed out by politicians? We all know how politicians are. They tend to minimize the benefits to the end user. Still, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

16 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

3rd like all flue viruses it is mutating quickly (re India) and the existing vaccines will not help the new strains

There are variants of the virus. We knew this going in. Most of the variants are close enough to be covered under the existing vaccines. Some won't be. Is this a reason to refuse a vaccine because it MIGHT not help in some very limited situations?

18 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

4th "If vaccines were not available things would be much worse"  Do you have studies to verify it....oh no..thats right these things were whisked out and given to us with minimal testing and no due diligent

In the US we are beginning to reach herd immunity. This was only possible through both natural immunity and vaccines. The only "study" to see what would happen with no vaccine would be to have done nothing. Do you want the responsibility for doing nothing?

20 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

5th Because of the lack of insuring safety  the cure is often worse than the diease with many reports of clotting and disaterous side effects

Many reports? In comparison to the total number of vaccines given the numbers of people who have experienced complications were VERY small. Most of them we not life threatening. If I go to ride a roller coaster at the fair there's always a chance I might get hurt even though maybe 100,000 people rode it before me. Do we still ride the coaster? Most do. EVERYTHING in life holds a chance. When I get in my car there's a chance I'll be in an accident. Doesn't stop me from driving.

23 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

6th The survival rate has ALWAYS been 99+%

The survival rate is situational based on the strain you have, your access to medical care and your body. You could have a survival rate of 0%. These are very misleading statistics.

26 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

7th (if you read this far thank you, this is more speculation) Plagues are nature's way of dealing with people when they don't manage things right. We have suffered from many and every few years these things happen

Yes the people who refuse to get a vaccine and eventually succumb to COVID. Are these the people you are talking about? I am not certain COVID came from bats in China. It is what it is.

29 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

8th They have achieved their goal of changing society and have stated we will not be going back to normal

If this was a goal...to make us all sick and then provide a remedy it was pure evil. I am more prone to think they used it as a way to bring these changes. I'm not sure they are smart enough to engineer a worldwide plandemic, but maybe. In either case we will see the the future going forward. As Christians we are moving closer to normal every day.

32 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Conclusion  these vaccines are politically and economically driven agendas, and its proponates are removing freedom from people (travel, gathering etc) who choose not to take the vaccine. (Shades of Nazi Germany)  If the vaccines are working then only the people who don't take them are at risk.....why is that a problem. We are making a choice.

Finally.......you talk as if dying is a bad thing. It is something we all do and heaven awaits

Well yes our entire world is heading in this direction. It would have happened with or without a pandemic in my opinion. I suppose anything can be a spring board.

 It  is a safety health issue for me. If we separate it from the politics and realize people are getting sick and dying. We can talk statistics of safety all day long while people line up at hospitals unable to breathe.

I know I'm going to die one day. I'm going to pray I die old and full of years......and I really don't want to be there when it happens.

God wants us affixed on the now doing things for Him in bodies that are alive. Not looking for death ASAP.

 

[missmuffet]

14 hours ago, Figure of eighty said:

I was talking to a friend of mine that said his job is making it mandatory to get the vaccine. We both share the same views and arent eager to get it. We arent anti vax just not comfortable with a rushed one. 

Now the thing is he works remote so I thought he was fine since he was at home but they still want him vaccinated. 

I just dont understand since hed be at home. 

 

Idk i just dont like where this is headed.

And I am sure the Jews did not think it was fair for what the Nazis put them through in WW2. That is what this vaccine reminds me of. If a person travels or works in a big corporation they are being bullied to get the vaccine. 

[ladypeartree]

actually we have already been told that no one knows how long the immunity will last and we may / probably will need a new vaccination every year.  IF the vaccine gives you immunity then having the illness should also do that so please tell me why people who HAVE had the illness and have recovered are also being told they need the vaccine ...doesnt make a lot of sense to me 

One of my granddaughters and her mum ( my daughter ) had covid at the start of the known time of confirmed diagnoses ..I nursed them both even though I am very high risk since it was a couple of weeks before lock down. My  other daughter works for the NHS  and more doctors and nurses are refusing the vaccine than are accepting it  HOWEVER   I am NOT against the vaccine ( my reasons for not getting it are more due to known allergies ) what I AM against is the compulsion to get it .... we already have people being told no jab no job  and that without proof of a vaccine you will not be allowed into places that are deemed by the government to be " non essential " THAT in my opinion is the start of tyranny WE THE PEOPLE  ELECT THESE GOVERNMENTS TO DO OUR WILL NOT THEIRS 

BACK TO THE OP ... why should he complain about being told he must get the jab when his JOB is to tell OTHERS the same thing ????? 

[Sparks]

On 5/3/2021 at 9:55 PM, Figure of eighty said:

I was talking to a friend of mine that said his job is making it mandatory to get the vaccine. We both share the same views and arent eager to get it. We arent anti vax just not comfortable with a rushed one.

It's a simple formula if you are in the USA:

Step 1:  Tell your friend to print out and keep all notifications and emails about this topic, today.  Don't wait.  Do it today.   Step 2, don't quit!  Work as usual until you are fired for not taking vaccine or until you find a better job that does not require this vaccine.  Step 3, when your friend is fired over not taking the vaccine, get that in writing, and have him/her take the case to an employment attorney, and sue that employer into oblivion. 

Don't talk about this plan with the employer, or threaten.  

While vaccine companies have immunity over law suits, the employer won't.   You cannot force a person to take a vaccine, especially over one that is not approved.

Oh, and this is not legal advice, just common sense.  Maybe ask a lawyer for advice before you do this.

[Starise]

When we have antibodies built up in our bodies, these  identify the same threat from them on, that is unless the threat is so vastly different the body no longer recognizes it or the body's immune system is somehow compromised.

If you had the illness and made it through I don't think it would cause problems to get the vaccine if it's needed for employment or to travel. It seems to me a simple test to see if you had the anti bodies should suffice. It doesn't seem as if it should be necessary though to get a vaccine if you already had the virus. Still they might be requiring it as a safeguard in reasoning it's easier to simply give everyone the shot than it is to weed through all who think they have had it. If you had the shot there can be no doubt you are immunized to 95%.

It's a two sided coin IMO. If the government is attempting to make sure everyone is safe,  they necessarily need to implement a strict way to assure problems won't reoccur and more people are not sick which might seem draconian to a few. I see it similar to a thing that must be done like stopping for a traffic light. The only caveat being that "IF" they continue to flex their muscle in the future using a vaccine as an EXCUSE to make other things happen, that's different.

The other extreme would be they stepped totally out of everything and did nothing. I don't see their involvement as being effective if it's only partially carried through.

FWIW I had allergy concerns as well. I am allergic to sulfa based antibiotics. I get red welts all over my body and swell up . I was somewhat reluctant to do it. As it turned out my allergies were not an issue.

I believe those who do not get a vaccine will end up being an eventual minority and therefore won't pose a serious risk to others who are vaccinated.

Just my .000000000000002 worth 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Starise

[BeyondET]

6 hours ago, Starise said:

I feel I have to bring this up. Millions of people have died and are dying from the virus. Statistics are easy to skew.

Go tell the widow of a man who died from the virus there's a 99% survival rate.

FACT- MILLIONS have died from the virus. India is presently inundated with too many sick people to handle. Survival rate? Depends on if you can get fresh oxygen in time. I would venture to say the survival in India right now is MUCH lower.

Talk to the nurses who manned the emergency wards in hospitals all across the US, who seen many people die in hospital hallways because they could not get help to them in time.

If vaccines were not available things would be much worse.

It's easy to say the survival rate is excellent coming off the slope. Don't forget what it can be like if we had not acted on it fast.

Many countries are still struggling with high death rates.

Don't think that YOU couldn't get it and die from it.

Some of that is true, yet there isn't a global campaign for vaccinations only the countries that have the money vast amount of countries don't have enough supply's but their cases are very low. of the 6 countries that have over 10k cases a day are only 6 and i know India being the highest but after top 5 it drops off a lot. there are about 220 countries in the world and just 42 are reporting case over a 1,000 a day and 6 are over 10k.

vaccine roll can not have that much of a impact globally 3/4 of the world doesn't have vaccines.

in the last 4 months of this year there has been 20 million deaths all causes and 47 millions births

today so far, 8,700 from covid, world death everything else 117,000 rrr 109,000 minus the covid.

If we are to finite our concern on deaths from covid then we should be concern with the other 109 thousand today, sadly a lot from starvation 25k which is completely preventable without a vaccine globally.

Edited May 4, 2021 by BeyondET

[BeyondET]

Sorry but that is strange, about 3 times as many people die from starvation in the world each day than covid. yet the media isn't plastered with images of starving people. which is not easy to look at.

Edited May 4, 2021 by BeyondET

[Riverwalker]

6 hours ago, Starise said:

Chances are if a person enters an emergency ward and needs a breathing tube they have the virus

Well we just fell off the fact bus into maybe land

6 hours ago, Starise said:

In the US we are beginning to reach herd immunity.

Herd Immunity from the first strain and  Dr Faucci (God bless his pea picking little heart) is backing off that statement as of this week

6 hours ago, Starise said:

You could have a survival rate of 0%. These are very misleading statistics.

Overall survival rate of everyone who got it. People with weakened immune system are subject to many dangers including flu and staph infections

6 hours ago, Starise said:

if this was a goal...to make us all sick

It may have been China's goal to make us sick.  Not the liberal democrats, but boy howdy do the yknow how to take advantaged of a situation

Untested, Unproven, Untaken

 

thanks

Edited May 4, 2021 by Riverwalker

[LadyKay]

11 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

There are just too many unknowns about these vaccines for virus with a 99%+ survival rate

I don't believe this 99% survival rate you all keep tossing out here. There have been just too many dead for me to accept that Covid has a 99% survival rate.