JOSEPHUS

[Guest kingdombrat]

4 hours ago, kingdombrat said:

***I really am [only] interested in who believes this account of Jesus written by Josephus***

 

“At that time also there appeared a certain man of magic power, if it be meet to call him a man, [whose name is Jesus], whom [certain] Greeks call a son of [a] God, but his disciples [call] the true prophet. He was a man of simple appearance, mature age, black-skinned (melagchrous), short growth, three cubits tall, hunchbacked, prognathous (lit. ‘with a long face’ [macroprosopos]), a long nose, eyebrows meeting above the nose, with scanty [curly] hair, but having a line in the middle of the head after the fashion of the Nazaraeans, with an undeveloped beard.”

I really did begin with just this one question concerning the quote describing Yeshua.   Now reading this quote, one might think Josephus would have first hand eye witness knowledge of what Yeshua actually did look like.   But is it really possible this is a first hand knowledge and eye witness account from Josephus?

 

Maybe this will enlighten us a bit more:

Famed Jewish historian Josephus Flavius was born in Jerusalem in AD 37 or 38, not long after Christ’s crucifixion.

How can someone who has [NEVER] seen Yeshua [EVER], be a reliable source of what Yeshua looked like?

[teddyv]

51 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

I really did begin with just this one question concerning the quote describing Yeshua.   Now reading this quote, one might think Josephus would have first hand eye witness knowledge of what Yeshua actually did look like.   But is it really possible this is a first hand knowledge and eye witness account from Josephus?

 

Maybe this will enlighten us a bit more:

Famed Jewish historian Josephus Flavius was born in Jerusalem in AD 37 or 38, not long after Christ’s crucifixion.

How can someone who has [NEVER] seen Yeshua [EVER], be a reliable source of what Yeshua looked like?

????

There were still plenty of witnesses to when Jesus alive when Josephus was around. 

The gospels certainly do not make any mention of his appearance. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by teddyv

[appy]

The fact that Josephus, mentions Jesus in his writings and that those writings are outside the bible, help a lot when sharing the gospel with unbelievers. His extra-biblical writing from the historical perspective is in agreement with the bible that the life and death of Jesus was indeed well known not just by the Jews, but also throughout the roman provinces. Even if the writing is just a short blurb, it shows that the events were real and tangible and not just a figment of imagination as atheists like to claim.

The authors of the gospels wrote about what they had seen and experienced,  because they were there. Josephus was no different. He, too, wrote from what he had seen and heard in his lifetime. Discrediting Josephus' writings gives atheists all the more reason to justify unbelief in Jesus.

[Guest kingdombrat]

27 minutes ago, teddyv said:

????

There were still plenty of witnesses to when Jesus alive when Josephus was around. 

The gospels certainly do not make any mention of his appearance. 

There's a movement to promote certain people as being true descendants of the Ancient Jews all based upon Josephus account of Christ.   Personally, I would desire first hand knowledge and an actual eye witness account.

[Guest kingdombrat]

15 minutes ago, appy said:

The fact that Josephus, mentions Jesus in his writings and that those writings are outside the bible, help a lot when sharing the gospel with unbelievers. His extra-biblical writing from the historical perspective is in agreement with the bible that the life and death of Jesus was indeed well known not just by the Jews, but also throughout the roman provinces. Even if the writing is just a short blurb, it shows that the events were real and tangible and not just a figment of imagination as atheists like to claim.

The authors of the gospels wrote about what they had seen and experienced,  because they were there. Josephus was no different. He, too, wrote from what he had seen and heard in his lifetime. Discrediting Josephus' writings gives atheists all the more reason to justify unbelief in Jesus.

AMEN!

 

I would imagine you're familiar with the [HOAX] surrounding the idealism that Rome made up this idea of Christ/God because it is easier to [rule] the peoples who believe in "fairy tales?"

 

For that [reason] alone, it's why I use the Ancient Atheist Greek Accounts from Thallus, Julius Africanus, Phlegon of Tralles, Celsus, Lucian of Samosata because they would [NEVER] back any ploy by Rome!

 

One of my Favorite Sources come from the Jews themselves.

 

 

                                      The Talmud

It is taught: On the eve of Passover they hung Yeshu and the crier went forth for forty days beforehand declaring that "[Yeshu] is going to be stoned for practicing witchcraft, for enticing and leading Israel astray. Anyone who knows something to clear him should come forth and exonerate him." But no one had anything exonerating for him and they hung him on the eve of Passover.^[90]

[Heleadethme]

16 hours ago, kingdombrat said:

Josephus is neither Christian.   Wouldn't his views be tainted since he did not believe in God?

 Truth telling is a rare commodity in a fallen world.

[Guest kingdombrat]

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

 Truth telling is a rare commodity in a fallen world.

AMEN!

[Heleadethme]

On 5/12/2021 at 2:10 PM, kingdombrat said:

Since a few here have put a lot of stock into the written accounts of Josephus, who is best known as being a Traitor to his own Troops he led, and then to his own people of Israel.   Who, when invaded by Rome during the 70 A.D. Destruction, is said to give a written eye witness account.   I wonder if more people also believe in what he wrote about "OUR" Lord and Savior Christ Yeshua/Jesus.

 

***NOW, before you read past this point, this is not a Race/Bias/Creed viewpoint***

***I really am [only] interested in who believes this account of Jesus written by Josephus***

 

“At that time also there appeared a certain man of magic power, if it be meet to call him a man, [whose name is Jesus], whom [certain] Greeks call a son of [a] God, but his disciples [call] the true prophet. He was a man of simple appearance, mature age, black-skinned (melagchrous), short growth, three cubits tall, hunchbacked, prognathous (lit. ‘with a long face’ [macroprosopos]), a long nose, eyebrows meeting above the nose, with scanty [curly] hair, but having a line in the middle of the head after the fashion of the Nazaraeans, with an undeveloped beard.”

I tend not to believe it, to start with since scripture only mentions that there was nothing in His appearance than we should desire Him....in other words, an ordinary looking person, not particularly imposing or attractive in appearance or bearing.  There is nothing at all in scripture to even hint that Jesus had any physical abnormalities.

Over and over again it says in the bible that lambs and other offerings had to be without defect....Jesus was the Lamb of God so if He had any physical defects His sacrifice would not have fulfilled the Law perfectly....not to mention that the Jews would have automatically disqualified Him on that basis.

Also there might be a case, that since Jesus is our High Priest and the descendants of Aaron who had physical defects were not permitted to minister before the Lord in the sanctuary, that a physical defect like a hunched back might have disqualified Him from being High Priest for that reason..?

Lev 21:16-23

Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,

“Speak to Aaron, saying, ‘No man of your offspring throughout their generations who has a defect shall approach to offer the food of his God.

‘For no one who has a defect shall approach: a blind man, or a lame man, or he who has a disfigured face, or any deformed limb,

or a man who has a broken foot or broken hand,

or a hunchback or a dwarf, or one who has a defect in his eye or eczema or scabs or crushed testicles.

‘No man among the descendants of Aaron the priest who has a defect is to come near to offer the LORD’S offerings by fire; since he has a defect, he shall not come near to offer the food of his God.

‘He may eat the food of his God, both of the most holy and of the holy,

only he shall not go in to the veil or come near the altar because he has a defect, so that he will not profane My sanctuaries. For I am the LORD who sanctifies them.’”

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Heleadethme

[Guest kingdombrat]

15 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

I tend not to believe it, to start with since scripture only mentions that there was nothing in His appearance than we should desire Him....in other words, an ordinary looking person, not particularly imposing or attractive in appearance or bearing.  There is nothing at all in scripture to even hint that Jesus had any physical abnormalities.

Over and over again it says in the bible that lambs and other offerings had to be without defect....Jesus was the Lamb of God so if He had any physical defects His sacrifice would not have fulfilled the Law perfectly....not to mention that the Jews would have automatically disqualified Him on that basis.

Also there might be a case, that since Jesus is our High Priest and the descendants of Aaron who had physical defects were not permitted to minister before the Lord in the sanctuary, that a physical defect like a hunched back might have disqualified Him from being High Priest for that reason..?

Lev 21:16-23

Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,

“Speak to Aaron, saying, ‘No man of your offspring throughout their generations who has a defect shall approach to offer the food of his God.

‘For no one who has a defect shall approach: a blind man, or a lame man, or he who has a disfigured face, or any deformed limb,

or a man who has a broken foot or broken hand,

or a hunchback or a dwarf, or one who has a defect in his eye or eczema or scabs or crushed testicles.

‘No man among the descendants of Aaron the priest who has a defect is to come near to offer the LORD’S offerings by fire; since he has a defect, he shall not come near to offer the food of his God.

‘He may eat the food of his God, both of the most holy and of the holy,

only he shall not go in to the veil or come near the altar because he has a defect, so that he will not profane My sanctuaries. For I am the LORD who sanctifies them.’”

 

Excellent Post!

I absolutely agree with you!

 

So, do you think Josephus description is him making fun, since not many Jews accepted Christ as the Messiah?

 

Josphus did write about the 70 A.D. defeat that the God of the Jews is Defeated.   So clearly, Josephus probably did not believe in the God of Abraham, and he probably would not believe in the Messiah.

[Heleadethme]

8 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

Excellent Post!

I absolutely agree with you!

 

So, do you think Josephus description is him making fun, since not many Jews accepted Christ as the Messiah?

 

Josphus did write about the 70 A.D. defeat that the God of the Jews is Defeated.   So clearly, Josephus probably did not believe in the God of Abraham, and he probably would not believe in the Messiah.

The tone of what Josephus wrote there came across to me as being disrespectful and maybe mocking.