I Got a Question on and Event in the New Testament

[Guest Zayit]

Who's arguing SJ, I'm not, I was just sharing something the L-rD revealed to me, if you dont' want to believe it, that is your perogative.

Yom Tov

[halifaxchristian]

I'm in no way, shape, form or fashion and expert, but since we know Jesus didn't have to do any more than speak a healing and it was done, I've always kinda thought it was to show those watching that he could even use ordinary things and make them work for him.  A message to us that no matter how dirty or bad we think we are that even dirt or clay can become something special in the hands of God.

Just my thought!

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Good post!!!

[apothanein kerdos]

Who's arguing SJ, I'm not, I was just sharing something the L-rD revealed to me, if you dont' want to believe it, that is your perogative.

Yom Tov

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Not trying to debate. I'm merely saying we shouldn't interject things into scripture that arent there. The scriptures are efficenter prima facie, we don't need to add anything to them to make them more powerful.

[Scarletprayers]

Hey, Im a believer but i got a question if any of you can help me out with: why did jesus have to spit on the clay and rub it on the mans eyes to heal him of his blindness? wasnt this unnecessary? why not just heal him on the spot? if any of you can help me out that would be great. Thanks.

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John 9:1-7 PP23

You might find something here;

III. The manner of the cure of the blind man, v. 6, 7. The circumstances of the miracle are singular, and no doubt significant. When he had thus spoken for the instruction of his disciples, and the opening of their understandings, he addressed himself to the opening of the blind man's eyes. He did not defer it till he could do it either more privately, for his greater safety, or more publicly, for his greater honour, or till the sabbath was past, when it would give less offence. What good we have opportunity of doing we should do quickly; he that will never do a good work till there is nothing to be objected against it will leave many a good work for ever undone, <Eccl. 11:4>. In the cure observe,

1. The preparation of the eye-salve. Christ spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle. He could have cured him with a word, as he did others, but he chose to do it in this way to show that he is not tied to any method. He made clay of his own spittle, because there was no water near; and he would teach us not to be nice or curious, but, when we have at any time occasion, to be willing to take up with that which is next hand, if it will but serve the turn. Why should we go about for that which may as well be had and done a nearer way? Christ's making use of his own spittle intimates that there is healing virtue in every thing that belongs to Christ; clay made of Christ's spittle was much more precious than the balm of Gilead.

2. The application of it to the place: He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay. Or, as the margin reads it, He spread (epechrise), he daubed the clay upon the eyes of the blind man, like a tender physician; he did it himself with his own hand, though the patient was a beggar. Now Christ did this,

(1.) To magnify his power in making a blind man to see by that method which one would think more likely to make a seeing man blind. Daubing clay on the eyes would close them up, but never open them. Note, The power of God often works by contraries; and he makes men feel their own blindness before he gives them sight.

(2.) to give an intimation that it was his mighty hand, the very same that at first made man out of the clay; for by him God made the worlds, both the great world, and man the little world. Man was formed out of the clay, and moulded like the clay, and here Christ used the same materials to give sight to the body that at first he used to give being to it.

(3.) to represent and typify the healing and opening of the eyes of the mind by the grace of Jesus Christ. The design of the gospel is to open men's eyes, <Acts 26:18>. Now the eye-salve that does the work is of Christ's preparing; it is made up, not as this, of his spittle, but of his blood, the blood and water that came out of his pierced side; we must come to Christ for the eye-salve, <Rev. 3:18>. He only is able, and he only is appointed, to make it up, <Lu. 4:18>. The means used in this work are very weak and unlikely, and are made effectual only by the power of Christ; when a dark world was to be enlightened, and nations of blind souls were to have their eyes opened, God chose the foolish things, and weak, and despised, for the doing of it. And the method Christ takes is first to make men feel themselves blind, as this poor man did whose eyes were daubed with clay, and then to give them sight. Paul in his conversion was struck blind for three days, and then the scales fell from his eyes. The way prescribed for getting spiritual wisdom is, Let a man become a fool, that he may be wise, <1 Cor. 3:18>. We must be made uneasy with our blindness, as this man here, and then healed.

3. The directions given to the patient, v. 7. His physician said to him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam. Not that this washing was needful to effect the cure; but,

(1.) Christ would hereby try his obedience, and whether he would with an implicit faith obey the orders of one he was so much a stranger to.

(2.) he would likewise try how he stood affected to the tradition of the elders, which taught, and perhaps had taught him (for many that are blind are very knowing), that it was not lawful to wash the eyes, no not with spittle medicinally, on the sabbath day, much less to go to a pool of water to wash them.

(3.) he would hereby represent the method of spiritual healing, in which, though the effect is owing purely to his power and grace, there is duty to be done by us. Go, search the scriptures, attend upon the ministry, converse with the wise; this is like washing in the pool of Siloam. Promised graces must be expected in the way of instituted ordinances. The waters of baptism were to those who had been trained up in darkness like the pool of Siloam, in which they might not only wash and be clean, but wash, and have their eyes opened. Hence they that were baptized are said to be photisthentes-- enlightened; and the ancients called baptism photismos-- illumination. Concerning the pool of Siloam observe,

[1.] That it was supplied with water from mount Zion, so that these were the waters of the sanctuary <Ps. 46:4>, living waters, which were healing, <Ezek. 47:9>.

[2.] that the waters of Siloam had of old signified the throne and kingdom of the house of David, pointing at the Messiah <Isa. 8:6>, and the Jews who refused the waters of Shiloa, Christ's doctrine and law, and rejoiced in the tradition of the elders. Christ would try this man, whether he would cleave to the waters of Siloam or no.

[3.] the evangelist takes notice of the signification of the name, its being interpreted sent. Christ is often called the sent of God, the Messenger of the covenant <Mal. 3:1>; so that when Christ sent him to the pool of Siloam he did in effect send him to himself; for Christ is all in all to the healing of souls. Christ as a prophet directs us to himself as a priest. Go, wash in the fountain opened, a fountain of life, not a pool.

4. The patient's obedience to these directions: He went his way therefore, probably led by some friend or other; or perhaps he was so well acquainted with Jerusalem that he could find the way himself. Nature often supplies the want of sight with an uncommon sagacity; and he washed his eyes; probably the disciples, or some stander by, informed him that he who bade him do it was that Jesus whom he had heard so much of, else he would not have gone, at his bidding, on that which looked so much like a fool's errand; in confidence of Christ's power, as well as in obedience to his command, he went, and washed.

5. The cure effected: He came seeing. There is more glory in this concise narrative, He went and washed, and came seeing, than in Caesar's Veni, vidi, vici-- I came, I saw, I conquered. When the clay was washed off from his eyes, all the other impediments were removed with it; so when the pangs and struggles of the new birth are over, and the pains and terrors of conviction past, the bands of sin fly off with them, and a glorious light and liberty succeed. See here an instance,

(1.) Of the power of Christ. What cannot he do who could not only do this, but do it thus? With a lump of clay laid on either eye, and washed off again, he couched those cataracts immediately which the most skilful oculist, with the finest instrument and the most curious hand, could not remove. No doubt this is he that should come, for by him the blind receive their sight.

(2.) it is an instance of the virtue of faith and obedience. This man let Christ do what he pleased, and did what he appointed him to do, and so was cured. Those that would be healed by Christ must be ruled by him. He came back from the pool to his neighbours and acquaintance, wondering and wondered at; he came seeing. This represents the benefit gracious souls find in attending on instituted ordinances, according to Christ's appointment; they have gone to the pool of Siloam weak, and have come away strengthened; have gone doubting, and come away satisfied; have gone mourning, and come away rejoicing; have gone trembling, and come away triumphing; have gone blind, and come away seeing, come away singing, <Isa. 52:8>.

John 9:8-12

(from Matthew Henry's Commentary)

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I like this Hitch and for once I don't feel like the dummy of the group since it kinda says alittle of what I had said earlier! Thanks (Yeah, I know you didn't do it for me but I still like it!)

[other one]

I read an article many years ago that the origional greek language leaves one to believe that the man was actually born with no eyes. I am not sure that is the case maybe some of our greek scholors might know.

I dunno where they got that idea. Nothing in the Greek hints at it, as far as I can tell. In fact, John 9:10 kind of seals it when they ask him how his eyes were opened. This means he had to have eyes to begin with in order for them to be shut.

Number 2 is that Yeshua spit in the dust and made clay, yes it was a creative act but I dont' believe this was a breaking the Shabbat matter that the authorities were concerned with.

Actually the contoversy began because He did this on the Sabbath. It is not the first time or the last time Jesus got in trouble because He healed or worked on the Sabbath.

Therefore some of the Pharisees were saying, "This man is not from God, because He does not keep the Sabbath " But others were saying, "How can a man who is a sinner perform such signs?" And there was a division among them.

See, those who knew him his whole life and knew he was eyeless were astonished, and had to ask each other and him if he was the same one, not because he was walking without a cane, but because he was walking around with eyes in his head.

No where in the Greek is this indicated so I'd be careful trying to formulate the argument around it

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Thanks SJ, I wish I had picked up greek when I was in college..... but alas it was not really what was on my mind when I was 18....

[jesussaves]

I doubt anyone can say exactly why the Lord chose to spit on the clay then place it on the blind man's eyes, however, it speaks loudly to my spirit when I think of the Lord being the Potter and we are the clay. I thought of the Lord making the clay pliable with His spit and then placing it on the broken part of the vessel to make it whole again. The Potter was with them.

The very act of Jesus healing this blind man caused a the Phrasee's to begin to investigate...their jealousy being greatly kindled at this point. (The blind man was blind not because of anything he had done, but that the Lord would be glorified)...

Our Lord, the Mighty One of Israel, the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, seated at the right hand of the Father.

[jesussaves]

I doubt anyone can say exactly why the Lord chose to spit on the clay then place it on the blind man's eyes, however, it speaks loudly to my spirit when I think of the Lord being the Potter and we are the clay.  I thought of the Lord making the clay pliable with His spit and then placing it on the broken part of the vessel to make it whole again.  The Potter was with them.

The very act of Jesus healing this blind man caused a the Phrasee's to begin to investigate...their jealousy being greatly kindled at this point.  (The blind man was blind not because of anything he had done, but that the Lord would be glorified)...

Our Lord, the Mighty One of Israel, the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, seated at the right hand of the Father.

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The Potter: Isaiah 64:8

Roman's 9:21

John 9:1-41

[Sirsilius]

I doubt anyone can say exactly why the Lord chose to spit on the clay then place it on the blind man's eyes, however, it speaks loudly to my spirit when I think of the Lord being the Potter and we are the clay.  I thought of the Lord making the clay pliable with His spit and then placing it on the broken part of the vessel to make it whole again.  The Potter was with them.

The very act of Jesus healing this blind man caused a the Phrasee's to begin to investigate...their jealousy being greatly kindled at this point.  (The blind man was blind not because of anything he had done, but that the Lord would be glorified)...

Our Lord, the Mighty One of Israel, the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, seated at the right hand of the Father.

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I agree! Well said.