How low will the left go?

[other one]

You live in a dream world....

[M45510G1C]

I don't see how you can think this if you have been listening to the leaders of the Palestinian movements, for they all say out of Gaza today, Jerusalem tomorrow and into the sea next week......      It is not going to happen the way you speak for the Palestinians themselves will not let it happen.  History has shown it, and their own speech predicts it.........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes there are vocal Palestinian extremist who favour this approach, and there are equqlly unpleasant Israeli bigots who call for the expulsion of all Arabs from Israel and the occupied territories. Neither approacviableh is one that would bring peace or is even feasable. The creation of a secure Israeli and Palestinian states within,or very close to the 1967 borders is the only real solution to the current problem. By this I mean states whose security is guaranteed by the major world powers; and which are also given a secure economic base.It's a solution the majority of Palestinians and Israelis would live with. It won't please the extremists of any hue, but they feed off extreme situations of injustice and inequality such as those currently facing many Palestinians, and would be marginalised by a just solution. In reality Palestinians and Israelis (even, as we are seeing in these days, hawks like Sharon)are as sensible and pragmatic as any other people if offered a solution that gives them real security and material advantage

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Um...yeh.

[apothanein kerdos]

Why should Israel have to give up land it won from Jordan and Egypt when it was invaded by them?

Stop being a sore loser Amor. You guys lost, Israel won, it rightfully belongs to them now.

And yes, she did meet with Michael Moore. She was highlighted on his website before the media ever talked to her.

[Guest shiloh357]

Why should Israel have to give up land it won from Jordan and Egypt when it was invaded by them?

Stop being a sore loser Amor. You guys lost, Israel won, it rightfully belongs to them now.

And yes, she did meet with Michael Moore. She was highlighted on his website before the media ever talked to her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Precisely... Israel won the West Bank and Gaza in a defensive war that was instigated by Jordan and Egypt, and according to international law, any land won in self-defense rightly becomes the property of the defending nation.

If the US was attacked by Canadians launching missiles into the United States from Canadian soil, the US under international law, has the right to enter Canada and take the ground from which the attacks emanated, and the US would have the right to keep that land as well.

That is what Israel did in 1967. Jordan and Egypt attacked Israel from the West Bank and Gaza, respectively and Israel in self-defense, took that territory away from Jordan and Egypt. Israel did not fight the Palestinians. Nothing was taken from them since, they did not own the Land, and the West Bank and Gaza are not part of any sovereign nation. They are the only portions of the original British mandate that remain in dispute. Israel's presence in the WB and Gaza, is not only legal, but is a military necessity to ensure that Jordan and Egypt do not launch more attacks from those areas.

The critics of Israel want to pretend that Israel just went in and took the WB and Gaza from the Palestinians. They ignorantly try to portray it as a land grab, when it wasn't that at all. They don't want to deal with the Arab violence and wars of annihilation that made Israel's entrance into the territories necessary.

[amor]

Why should Israel have to give up land it won from Jordan and Egypt when it was invaded by them?

Stop being a sore loser Amor. You guys lost, Israel won, it rightfully belongs to them now.

And yes, she did meet with Michael Moore. She was highlighted on his website before the media ever talked to her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fine in that case fully annex the West Bank and Gaza, and grant full citizenship rights,including the right to vote to all those who live there. Do you see that as a solution? If you don't, what future do you see for those living in the territories that Israel "won"?

[amor]

The critics of Israel want to pretend that Israel just went in and took the WB and Gaza from the Palestinians. They ignorantly try to portray it as a land grab, when it wasn't that at all. They don't want to deal with the Arab violence and wars of annihilation that made Israel's entrance into the territories necessary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you don't see it as a land grab, why are you upset about those being evicted from the settlements, and why do you and others on the board go on and on about Israel's divine right tocontrol those territories.

[apothanein kerdos]

Why should Israel have to give up land it won from Jordan and Egypt when it was invaded by them?

Stop being a sore loser Amor. You guys lost, Israel won, it rightfully belongs to them now.

And yes, she did meet with Michael Moore. She was highlighted on his website before the media ever talked to her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fine in that case fully annex the West Bank and Gaza, and grant full citizenship rights,including the right to vote to all those who live there. Do you see that as a solution? If you don't, what future do you see for those living in the territories that Israel "won"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And you don't think the UN and Arab nations wouldn't have a fit over that? Israel has wanted to annex but the UN is completely against the idea of Israel being there in the first place. You're living in a utopia Armor. Israel annexing it and granting citizenship rights, while best for both sides, would not be allowed by Hamas, PLO, the UN (all three Terrorist organizations), the Arab governments, or the anti-semetic European goverments (Germ-ance...you figure out what that's a combo of).

Also, to put "won" in quotations is misleading. These were territories that Jordan, Egypt, and Syria were using as staging points into Israel because they are strategically vital. Israel captured and controlled these lands in less than 6 days. That's like saying Manchester United "won" when they beat Debreceni 3-nill. Israel delivered a crushing and humiliating defeat to the Arab nations and won those lands in the process. What would you have them to do, return them to their rightful owners the Jordanians and Egyptians? For the first time in history "palestinians" are governing themselves. THe line of sucession for control over "palestine" began with Rome (when it was first called Palestine as an insult), transfered to the eastern Roman Empire, then the Byzantines (practically the same thing), then the Ottomon Empire, then the British Empire, and then Israel. Name one time in History where the Palestinians had a state or sense of nation hood or when they pushed for freedom prior to 1967.

[apothanein kerdos]

The critics of Israel want to pretend that Israel just went in and took the WB and Gaza from the Palestinians. They ignorantly try to portray it as a land grab, when it wasn't that at all. They don't want to deal with the Arab violence and wars of annihilation that made Israel's entrance into the territories necessary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you don't see it as a land grab, why are you upset about those being evicted from the settlements, and why do you and others on the board go on and on about Israel's divine right tocontrol those territories.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Strategic advantage. And we actually love peace loving Palestinians and the best thing for them is to be under the Israeli government.

[nebula]

Fine in that case fully annex the West Bank and Gaza, and grant full citizenship rights,including the right to vote to all those who live there.

This morning on Fox News, the reporter was with a family that was refusing to leave. The family had been living there for about 30 years. The man of the house stated that before the Israelis began developing settlements in there, there were virtually no Arabs/ "Palestinians" living in the Gaza Strip.

That means that the large mass of "Palestinians" living there came in after the Israelis built communities there.

Interesting.

[Guest shiloh357]

The critics of Israel want to pretend that Israel just went in and took the WB and Gaza from the Palestinians. They ignorantly try to portray it as a land grab, when it wasn't that at all. They don't want to deal with the Arab violence and wars of annihilation that made Israel's entrance into the territories necessary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you don't see it as a land grab, why are you upset about those being evicted from the settlements, and why do you and others on the board go on and on about Israel's divine right tocontrol those territories.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Land historically belongs to the Jews. The Jewish people prior to 1967 had lived without controversy for 19 years in the 1949 borders. It was the Arabs that made Israel's entrance necessary by forcing Israel into war. Israel's entrance was legal under international rules of war. Israel took control of territory that was used to attack them. It was Israel's right to control the territory as the spoils of war.

Israel's settlements were not illegal, since the territories are disputed as far international law is concerned. Israel did not take the West Bank and Gaza in an unprovoked attempt to gain more territory. Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza to create a buffer against an invasion from those areas. Israel was in control of land that was given to them by God thousands of years ago as part of an eternal covenant.

In the same way Israel took the Sinai away from Egypt during the Yom Kippur war, which Egypt and Syria instigated and had the right to keep it. It was theirs to do with as they saw fit.