Theological Problems with God-guided Evolution

[dad2]

4 hours ago, one.opinion said:

This seems to be an excessive assumption of literal language. All creatures would be literally trillions.

No. The kinds were probably in Eden area, and like Adam and Eve moved out from there I would guess. Unless you have some bible evidence to the contrary?

[dad2]

Just now, Chicken coop2 said:

I have no idea what this post means. 

It means that God probably just created the kinds such as man kind in the area of the garden. So it would be easy to have them all come to Adam to be named.

[one.opinion]

23 minutes ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

It would have been no different than Noah loading male/female of every land creature aboard the Ark.

God loaded the animals, but not ALL the animals. The literal interpretation is very different.

[one.opinion]

2 hours ago, Sparks said:

It would not have been trillions. 

God made the animals, but then later made a set of animals for Adam to name right there in the Garden of Eden. He named the Horse kind horse, the Hippo kind hippo, the Otter kind otter, and so on.

That isn't what the Bible says. Read Genesis 2:19:

"So the Lord God formed out of the ground every wild animal and every bird of the sky, and brought each to the man to see what he would call it. And whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name."

God didn't say He brought one of each kind. The Bible says He brought "each" to the man.

Edited July 6, 2021 by one.opinion

[Sparks]

4 hours ago, one.opinion said:

That isn't what the Bible says. Read Genesis 2:19:

"So the Lord God formed out of the ground every wild animal and every bird of the sky, and brought each to the man to see what he would call it. And whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name."

God didn't say He brought one of each kind. The Bible says He brought "each" to the man.

Probably if you read all of Genesis, it would make better sense:

Genesis 1:24-25 (KJV) 24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The animals exist, but Adam does not, yet.

Genesis 1:26 (KJV) 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Now Adam exists.  Yet, God makes the animals again for Adam to name.

Genesis 2:19-20 (KJV)  19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. 20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

[The Barbarian]

17 hours ago, dad2 said:

Man was formed not produced.

So something formed isn't produced?   You might want to check a dictionary.

17 hours ago, dad2 said:

He was formed from a world that was just created.

I know you want to believe that, but it's not something scripture supports.

17 hours ago, dad2 said:

He was formed in the sixth of a sequence of days that had a morning and evening.

That's how the text tells you that it's not a literal account.  Logically impossible to have mornings and evenings without a sun to have them.

17 hours ago, dad2 said:

The earth was created before the sun and moon, do you believe that?

See above.   You've just revised Genesis to fit your wishes.

17 hours ago, dad2 said:

Birds were created before man was do you believe that?

By many millions of years.   Would you like to learn how we know?

17 hours ago, dad2 said:

If so you do not believe the theory of evolution

Actually, evolutionary theory isn't what tells us this.  Geology and a paleontology show that to be the case.    You've pretty much tossed everything you don't like about reality into a box you've labeled "evolution."

 

[dad2]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

 

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I know you want to believe that, but it's not something scripture supports.

 

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

Looks like the very first verse in the bible supports it actually. Sorry if you may have thought you got to insert ages in there as needed for whatever reason.

 

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That's how the text tells you that it's not a literal account.  Logically impossible to have mornings and evenings without a sun to have them.

False. There is no need of the sun in the New Jerusalem yet we have days there. The sun only marked morning and evenings after God created them. You do not get to say it is not logical.

 

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See above.   You've just revised Genesis to fit your wishes.

False we are told what day they were created. Nothing to do with me wishing at all.

 

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By many millions of years.   Would you like to learn how we know?

Sure you can cite your beliefs that are not in the bible and which I guarantee you will not be able to support if you like. Go ahead and make my day.

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Actually, evolutionary theory isn't what tells us this.  Geology and a paleontology show that to be the case.

Actually that is false. I kid you not. Geology tells us nothing of the sort, only the beliefs you insert into it do that for you inside your head.

 

  

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  You've pretty much tossed everything you don't like about reality into a box you've labeled "evolution."

Not at all. The word evolution does bring to mind many things for most people, but if you want to talk nitty gritty, fine. We can use fancier words for you.

 

[AandW_Rootbeer]

On 7/6/2021 at 11:56 AM, one.opinion said:

God loaded the animals, but not ALL the animals. The literal interpretation is very different.

It's interesting, because the Hebrew Version shows that Noah had to choose 7 pairs of clean beasts and 2 pairs of unclean beasts and do the same for the fowl.   That means a lot of Species would have been wiped out during the Flood.   So when we think of dinosaurs on the Ark, that is a true misconception to a horrible KJV Translation.   Here's the Hebrew that explains this better.

 

1And the Lord said to Noah, "Come into the ark, you and all your household, for it is you that I have seen as a righteous man before Me in this generation.		אוַיֹּ֤אמֶר יְהֹוָה֙ לְנֹ֔חַ בֹּֽא־אַתָּ֥ה וְכָל־בֵּֽיתְךָ֖ אֶל־הַתֵּבָ֑ה כִּי־אֹֽתְךָ֥ רָאִ֛יתִי צַדִּ֥יק לְפָנַ֖י בַּדּ֥וֹר הַזֶּֽה:
2Of all the clean animals you shall take for yourself seven pairs, a male and its mate, and of the animals that are not clean, two, a male and its mate.		במִכֹּ֣ל | הַבְּהֵמָ֣ה הַטְּהוֹרָ֗ה תִּקַּח־לְךָ֛ שִׁבְעָ֥ה שִׁבְעָ֖ה אִ֣ישׁ וְאִשְׁתּ֑וֹ וּמִן־הַבְּהֵמָ֡ה אֲ֠שֶׁ֠ר לֹ֣א טְהֹרָ֥ה הִ֛וא שְׁנַ֖יִם אִ֥ישׁ וְאִשְׁתּֽוֹ:
3Also, of the fowl of the heavens, seven pairs, male and female, to keep seed alive on the face of the earth.		גגַּ֣ם מֵע֧וֹף הַשָּׁמַ֛יִם שִׁבְעָ֥ה שִׁבְעָ֖ה זָכָ֣ר וּנְקֵבָ֑ה לְחַיּ֥וֹת זֶ֖רַע עַל־פְּנֵ֥י כָל־הָאָֽרֶץ:       Also something else I wanted to ask pertaining to your original Op.      Most people who Believe in God take God's Word at face-value and then anything else they will compare God's Word to.   You on the other hand, have taken the truths of man through the study of others and yourself and then tried to apply to the context of God's Word.   Unfortunately, if we are to First to believe God's Word and everything else secondly, we have no issue understanding Sunrise to Sunset is clearly a 24 hour period.   But if we are to accept the truth of man's knowledge and research, we will have no issue contorting God's Word and applying terms like Narrative to it.   Now obviously, this is nowhere to being a Salvation Issue.   But it does set precedent that if one can contort the Word of God from the very Beginning of God's Word, they can contort God's Word all throughout till the End of God's Word.   Accepting God's Word at Face-Value is the sole key to a life preserved by the Word of God.   But being able to Contort God's Word at "Will," enables one to question God any time there is a disagreement with God's Word.   And that can be Salvation Issue Problematic!

Edited July 8, 2021 by AandW_Rootbeer

[AandW_Rootbeer]

According to the Hebrew, Noah would have only held 32 animals on the Ark.   Clearly the dinosaur theory about being on the Ark is a complete myth, because (if) dinosaurs existed in Noah's day, they would most certainly be labelled as unclean.

 

1And the Lord said to Noah, "Come into the ark, you and all your household, for it is you that I have seen as a righteous man before Me in this generation.		אוַיֹּ֤אמֶר יְהֹוָה֙ לְנֹ֔חַ בֹּֽא־אַתָּ֥ה וְכָל־בֵּֽיתְךָ֖ אֶל־הַתֵּבָ֑ה כִּי־אֹֽתְךָ֥ רָאִ֛יתִי צַדִּ֥יק לְפָנַ֖י בַּדּ֥וֹר הַזֶּֽה:
2Of all the clean animals you shall take for yourself seven pairs, a male and its mate, and of the animals that are not clean, two, a male and its mate.		במִכֹּ֣ל | הַבְּהֵמָ֣ה הַטְּהוֹרָ֗ה תִּקַּח־לְךָ֛ שִׁבְעָ֥ה שִׁבְעָ֖ה אִ֣ישׁ וְאִשְׁתּ֑וֹ וּמִן־הַבְּהֵמָ֡ה אֲ֠שֶׁ֠ר לֹ֣א טְהֹרָ֥ה הִ֛וא שְׁנַ֖יִם אִ֥ישׁ וְאִשְׁתּֽוֹ:
3Also, of the fowl of the heavens, seven pairs, male and female, to keep seed alive on the face of the earth.		גגַּ֣ם מֵע֧וֹף הַשָּׁמַ֛יִם שִׁבְעָ֥ה שִׁבְעָ֖ה זָכָ֣ר וּנְקֵבָ֑ה לְחַיּ֥וֹת זֶ֖רַע עַל־פְּנֵ֥י כָל־הָאָֽרֶץ:

[The Barbarian]

On 7/6/2021 at 4:04 PM, dad2 said:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

Looks like the very first verse in the bible supports it actually. Sorry if you may have thought you got to insert ages in there as needed for whatever reason.

Sorry if you thought you got to insert that it happened in any particular time frame. 

That's how the text tells you that it's not a literal account.  Logically impossible to have mornings and evenings without a sun to have them.  

On 7/6/2021 at 4:04 PM, dad2 said:

False.

No, you're wrong.   That's it by definition.  If you have to change the meaning of words to support your new doctrines, that should be a pretty good clue for you.

By many millions of years.   Would you like to learn how we know? Actually, evolutionary theory isn't what tells us this.  Geology and a paleontology show that to be the case.

On 7/6/2021 at 4:04 PM, dad2 said:

Actually that is false.

I see your denial, but the evidence from physics, geology, and paleontology are more convincing.   Since the Bible offers no support for your new revision, you have nothing but "I just want it to be like that."

  You've pretty much tossed everything you don't like about reality into a box you've labeled "evolution."

On 7/6/2021 at 4:04 PM, dad2 said:

Not at all.

Yep.  No point in you denying it.  You've confused evolutionary theory with the Big Bang, nuclear physics, geology, and a host of other things.