Theological Problems with God-guided Evolution

[dad2]

25 minutes ago, Chicken coop2 said:

Exactly.  Meaning a day could have been a much longer time period than 24 hours. 

No. Because a day was later marked in a way that we recognize how much time is involved, and that was by the sun. There were mornings and evenings also after the sun and stars were made. Since we still have the sun today, we have a good idea that a day is not a million years here on earth. Plants were made before the sun and they cannot last millions of years before they get sun! There is no indication whatsoever that a day and morning and evening were not approx what we see today. Since a year was 360 days, we can allow for possibly a small difference in the length of a day.

 The point I was making to Barbarian was that he cannot limit what a day is defined as to the sun.

[Sparks]

6 hours ago, Chicken coop2 said:

Exactly.  Meaning a day could have been a much longer time period than 24 hours. 

Sorry, but a day was a day when God was busying creating the Earth, and us.  It was a pattern set for us, by example.  I imagine God could have made us all, and everything in a trillionth of a second if He wanted to, but he set an example for us, of a week and a 24 hour day.

I speculate here, but I believe God made light first (and the physical laws like gravity at that moment) but it was He, Himself, who was the light at the time.  

You can see in Revelation that God is going to be the light, when this is all over.

Revelation 22:5 (NLT)  And there will be no night there—no need for lamps or sun—for the Lord God will shine on them. And they will reign forever and ever.

Also, God separates Himself from the sun for those who might think sun is God, so he created our sun on the 4th day.  Again, it shows by example, that He is not the sun.

[The Barbarian]

21 hours ago, one.opinion said:

So the “light” had zero to do with the sun. Why is the period of “evening and morning” require 24 hours? There is nothing textual to insist that.

They don't mind bending the meaning of words, but only if it fits the narrative they want.

 

[Sparks]

32 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

They don't mind bending the meaning of words, but only if it fits the narrative they want.

The irony.

[AandW_Rootbeer]

On 7/16/2021 at 10:54 AM, Chicken coop2 said:

Exactly.  Meaning a day could have been a much longer time period than 24 hours. 

We both can agree that God knew He would create Adam.   And as we know, God created Adam to live in a 24 hour time frame including Morning and Evening.   God also knew that what other things He created would be in existence with Adam, who God designed to be existing within a 24 hour day period.   So why would God create everything in different time periods of existence and then toss Adam into this mixture and force everything else to exist within a 24 hour time period?

 

The answer is simple.   God would do no such thing.   

 

God would have created everything to exist in the same time frame as Adam.   So even though we have no reference of 24 hours here, we do know once Adam existed all of humanity existed by the same day period of 24 hours,   We can therefore conclude that all of creation was also done in a 24 hour day period because all of creation, including Adam, had to co-exist.   And the only way everything could co-exist together, was to be created based upon the same day time frame.   Which as we know is a 24 hour period that includes Morning and Evening.

[AandW_Rootbeer]

Science can't prove a thing if they weren't there to personally observe it!   You mean they have hypothesized, which is not either true or false, it's an opinion.

Edited July 17, 2021 by AandW_Rootbeer

[Sparks]

20 hours ago, Chicken coop2 said:

Science has already proven that light existed before sun and stars.  I have been waiting for someone to post about this. 

Science is not in the proof business, but what is it that you think 'proved' this?

In Evolution theory, the sun came first.  Everything in Evolution theory is literally opposite, as if Satan wanted to mock the real creation.

[Sparks]

1 minute ago, Chicken coop2 said:

Look it up. It's quite interesting.  Science can support God, you. Know.  I had science teachers and professors who were Christian and they said the more they learned about science the stonger they felt towards God. Any my high school biology/chemistry professor was also an ordained minister.  There is nothing wrong with scientists being believers.  Quite a few Nobel Prize winners in the sciences have been believers. 

God cannot be proven or disproven, by science.   Science is not the right tool for the job.  It's like trying to weigh an apple, using inches; it won't work.  This is mainly because science is a tool that can only deal the the natural world.

Using science, you could not 'prove' what you had for lunch 3 weeks ago.  You could, however, use historical and legal methods to establish it (using cameras, and receipts and stuff).

So, I ask, how is it 'proven' that light came first, using science? 

[Selah7]

12 hours ago, Chicken coop2 said:

God can do anything He wants

Amen, CC! 

Job 38

The Lord Reveals His Omnipotence to Job

38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:

2 “Who is this who darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
3 Now prepare yourself like a man;
I will question you, and you shall answer Me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8 “Or who shut in the sea with doors,
When it burst forth and issued from the womb;
9 When I made the clouds its garment,
And thick darkness its swaddling band;
10 When I fixed My limit for it,
And set bars and doors;
11 When I said,
‘This far you may come, but no farther,
And here your proud waves must stop!’

12 “Have you commanded the morning since your days began,
And caused the dawn to know its place,
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth,
And the wicked be shaken out of it?
14 It takes on form like clay under a seal,
And stands out like a garment.
15 From the wicked their light is withheld,
And the upraised arm is broken.

16 “Have you entered the springs of the sea?
Or have you walked in search of the depths?
17 Have the gates of death been revealed to you?
Or have you seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Have you comprehended the breadth of the earth?
Tell Me, if you know all this.

19 “Where is the way to the dwelling of light?
And darkness, where is its place,
20 That you may take it to its territory,
That you may know the paths to its home?
21 Do you know it, because you were born then,
Or because the number of your days is great?

22 “Have you entered the treasury of snow,
Or have you seen the treasury of hail,
23 Which I have reserved for the time of trouble,
For the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is light diffused,
Or the east wind scattered over the earth?

25 “Who has divided a channel for the overflowing water,
Or a path for the thunderbolt,
26 To cause it to rain on a land where there is no one,
A wilderness in which there is no man;
27 To satisfy the desolate waste,
And cause to spring forth the growth of tender grass?
28 Has the rain a father?
Or who has begotten the drops of dew?
29 From whose womb comes the ice?
And the frost of heaven, who gives it birth?
30 The waters harden like stone,
And the surface of the deep is frozen.

31 “Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades,
Or loose the belt of Orion?
32 Can you bring out Mazzaroth in its season?
Or can you guide the Great Bear with its cubs?
33 Do you know the ordinances of the heavens?
Can you set their dominion over the earth?

34 “Can you lift up your voice to the clouds,
That an abundance of water may cover you?
35 Can you send out lightnings, that they may go,
And say to you, ‘Here we are!’?
36 Who has put wisdom in the mind?
Or who has given understanding to the heart?
37 Who can number the clouds by wisdom?
Or who can pour out the bottles of heaven,
38 When the dust hardens in clumps,
And the clods cling together?

39 “Can you hunt the prey for the lion,
Or satisfy the appetite of the young lions,
40 When they crouch in their dens,
Or lurk in their lairs to lie in wait?
41 Who provides food for the raven,
When its young ones cry to God,
And wander about for lack of food?

…Selah

 

[Sparks]

4 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Amen, CC! 

Job 38

The Lord Reveals His Omnipotence to Job

38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:

2 “Who is this who darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
3 Now prepare yourself like a man;
I will question you, and you shall answer Me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8 “Or who shut in the sea with doors,
When it burst forth and issued from the womb;
9 When I made the clouds its garment,
And thick darkness its swaddling band;
10 When I fixed My limit for it,
And set bars and doors;
11 When I said,
‘This far you may come, but no farther,
And here your proud waves must stop!’

12 “Have you commanded the morning since your days began,
And caused the dawn to know its place,
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth,
And the wicked be shaken out of it?
14 It takes on form like clay under a seal,
And stands out like a garment.
15 From the wicked their light is withheld,
And the upraised arm is broken.

16 “Have you entered the springs of the sea?
Or have you walked in search of the depths?
17 Have the gates of death been revealed to you?
Or have you seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Have you comprehended the breadth of the earth?
Tell Me, if you know all this.

19 “Where is the way to the dwelling of light?
And darkness, where is its place,
20 That you may take it to its territory,
That you may know the paths to its home?
21 Do you know it, because you were born then,
Or because the number of your days is great?

22 “Have you entered the treasury of snow,
Or have you seen the treasury of hail,
23 Which I have reserved for the time of trouble,
For the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is light diffused,
Or the east wind scattered over the earth?

25 “Who has divided a channel for the overflowing water,
Or a path for the thunderbolt,
26 To cause it to rain on a land where there is no one,
A wilderness in which there is no man;
27 To satisfy the desolate waste,
And cause to spring forth the growth of tender grass?
28 Has the rain a father?
Or who has begotten the drops of dew?
29 From whose womb comes the ice?
And the frost of heaven, who gives it birth?
30 The waters harden like stone,
And the surface of the deep is frozen.

31 “Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades,
Or loose the belt of Orion?
32 Can you bring out Mazzaroth in its season?
Or can you guide the Great Bear with its cubs?
33 Do you know the ordinances of the heavens?
Can you set their dominion over the earth?

34 “Can you lift up your voice to the clouds,
That an abundance of water may cover you?
35 Can you send out lightnings, that they may go,
And say to you, ‘Here we are!’?
36 Who has put wisdom in the mind?
Or who has given understanding to the heart?
37 Who can number the clouds by wisdom?
Or who can pour out the bottles of heaven,
38 When the dust hardens in clumps,
And the clods cling together?

39 “Can you hunt the prey for the lion,
Or satisfy the appetite of the young lions,
40 When they crouch in their dens,
Or lurk in their lairs to lie in wait?
41 Who provides food for the raven,
When its young ones cry to God,
And wander about for lack of food?

…Selah

 

Yes, God can do literally anything. 

The fact stands that science cannot help us in proving or disproving God, nor can it tell us when light first appeared.