Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[Montana Marv]

40 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

Read those that did in the tribulation die in the Lord.. they have the same spirit believers have now… the New Testament is still in effect during the tribulation.. So those that die in Christ are in the tribulation and have the spirit but pre trib doesn’t include them when zech. And Paul includes  them as when he comes all the saints will come with him.. OT are saints, New Testament are saints, tribulation saints are saints.. they all will come back with Jesus.. pre trib itself says it’s only the dead in Christ that go but tribulation saints die in Christ so pre trib is not even true to itself

Why do the beheaded ones ask for their blood to be avenged. Stephen asked for those to be forgived. Stephen indwelt by the Holy Spirit.  The Church has  not changed to a different message. Different set of saint's in the 70th Week. Maybe Mormons J.W., And the like. 

In Christ

Montana Marv 

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

An individual can only be resurrected once.  When they become resurrected is a different story.

Nope.  Same story.  Same time.  Why do you think it's a different story?

Do you not believe that 1 Cor 15:23 tells us precisely WHEN all believers will be resurrected?

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Christ the First Fruit. Then we who are his. The Bride. Then....

So you really don't believe that "those who belong to Him" includes any of the OT saints?  Why not?

And if they do not belong to Him, just who to they belong to?  Have you actually thought all this out?

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

What other group can be identified as being Filled/Indwelt by the Holy Spirit?

Well, that isn't a "criteria" for being resurrected "when He comes".  And why would that differentiate saved people anyway?  Can you explain, please?

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

  Only the Bride, since Pentecost.  Many need to refresh themselves on; Who they are in Christ Jesus as the Bride.  Or put it another way, What has Jesus Christ not done for you as the Bride.  Has He done it All for you?? , or are there gaps.

Every question here applies to EVERY believer in the Messiah, since Adam.

Or prove otherwise, please.  With Scripture.

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

Rom 6:5 - If we have been united with him like this in his death, we be certainly be united with him in his resurrection.

Do you see the wording here;  We are united with him in HIS Resurrection, not our resurrection, or by his resurrection

Every believer is united with Him.  Why would they not be?  Those who believe in Him for salvation have been SEALED in Him by the Spirit. 

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

Rev 20:7 - When the 1000 years were over, Satan will be released, and go out to deceive the nations.......  The number of them was like the sand on the seashores.  People born during the Mill, still have the seed of Adam in them, so can be influenced.

Having Adam's seed won't really matter.  The Bible says the whole world will rebel by the end of the MK and attack Jerusalem and the King.  So God sends fire from heaven and fries ALL of them.  Just to be resurrected back into their mortal bodies to face the GWT, and then be cast into the LOF.

[Montana Marv]

31 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Well, that isn't a "criteria" for being resurrected "when He comes".  And why would that differentiate saved people anyway?  Can you explain, please?

Every question here applies to EVERY believer in the Messiah, since Adam.

Or prove otherwise, please.  With Scripture.

Every believer is united with Him.  Why would they not be?  Those who believe in Him for salvation have been SEALED in Him by the Spirit. 

Then you have already experienced his Resurrection. Thus you cannot be part of any future Resurrection. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

[FreeGrace]

20 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Then you have already experienced his Resurrection. Thus you cannot be part of any future Resurrection. 

This claim shows that you don't believe 1 Cor 15:23 then.  

To "experience Resurrection" means to receive a resurrection body, which is just like His.

No one has experienced a resurrection body yet.  Haven't you read 1 Cor 15 and how God describes the resurrection body?

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

This claim shows that you don't believe 1 Cor 15:23 then.  

To "experience Resurrection" means to receive a resurrection body, which is just like His.

No one has experienced a resurrection body yet.  Haven't you read 1 Cor 15 and how God describes the resurrection body?

John 20.17 touch me not for I have not yet ascended 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

John 20.17 touch me not for I have not yet ascended 

What does this prove, please?

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Rev 20:7 - When the 1000 years were over, Satan will be released, and go out to deceive the nations.......  The number of them was like the sand on the seashores.  People born during the Mill, still have the seed of Adam in them, so can be influenced.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Who is having children?  

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, farouk said:

@DeighAnn That verse at 1 Thess. 4.17 is indeed very precious and can often be considered together with 1 Cor. 11.26: 'till He come'.

Meanwhile His people serve Him by His grace.

From the day the graves were opened

And John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

All the way until the day He returns

"And He shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Matthew 24:31 KJV