Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[Guest LCPGUY]

The Seventh Trumpet & the Sixth Seal & the Seventh Vial speak of the same thing. Therefore...it's not God's Wrath. God's Wrath does not incur until after the Sixth trumpet. The Great Tribulation has to happen first, which is The very end of the Sixth Trumpet/beginning Seventh Trump. God does not "destroy" the earth until after His 1000 year reign...which is after Satan's 1000 year reign. That's when he turns the moon into blood and etc, etc.

Making sense to ya? 

Exactly this is what I have been saying tribulation is not God's Wrath. Because God's wrath does not begin until after the 6th Seal.

God bless,

Sorry to disagree Bro, but I believe it starts at the first seal, the tribulation that is.

Oh well, none of us will ever agree I guess. Sigh...

But I do love you post tribbers, really!

John Buoy

[Guest dustycanvas]

LCPGuy,

okay okay...you know?

The first Seal happens even before the first Trumpet...and the Tribulation doesn't start until the end of the Sixth Seal/beginning of Seventh Trumpet. (and the 7th vial is the same as these)

Look at these...compare these...you will find that they are indeed the same events.

When you understand this...all of the book of Revelation comes together and there is no question as to what happens when.

I see, you must be relating the Four Horsemen of teh first four seals with the Tribulation. These horses are representitive of of eras of time. I can give a whole indepth lesson just on these four horsemen. To summarize....

Revelation 6:1-8

Zechariah 6:1-8

The four horses are four spirits.

Black horse-capitalism/democracy. The balances he holds are representitive of commerce & trade. ..."hurt not the oil & the wine..." this is the economy.

Red Horse-Communism. ..."they should kill one another".... (Stalin, China, Hitler...RED leaders, RED countries) The Great Sword which he held-there great military might. Again, China is known as a RED country and the Soviet Union was known as a RED country.

White Horse-Catholicism-pope wears crown/carries bow for defense (or used to)/wears white/vehicle,helicopter & Jet are all white.

Pale Horse-Death. ..."kill by sword, hunger, death & beasts"... Power given to them over a 1/4 part of the Earth. .."Hell followed with him"... Satan is behind death. .."to kill with hunger"... (famine) The 20th century was the bloodiest century ever recorded!

Zechariah 6:6-8

Black horse-FYI-Capitalist countries are all in teh Northern hemisphere.

White Horse-scripture says the white horse follows the black. Catholicism has always followed and thrived in the Capitalistic countries.

The "grizzled & bay" countries are the poor countries (found in the southern hemisphere.

The Capitalistic countries have "quieted his spirit" because there is less need for God in thriving countries. The Bible says and it's true, "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to be saved"

Edited August 7, 2004 by dustycanvas

[JesusisGod2]

Satan has a 1,000 year reign. God gives this to him in Revelation 20:4-10

:oww:

Hi Dusty,

Perhaps you wrote this mistakenly, but if this is what you truely believe, I must say that you are mistaken.

Jesus is the One Who will reign for a thousand years and satan will be imprisoned in chains during this tim we call the millinial reign. He will however be realeased after the thousand years and will have one more go at decieving the nations.

Rev 20:7  When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

8  and will come out to  deceive the nations which are in the  four corners of the earth,  Gog and Magog, to  gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

9  And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

10  And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be  tormented day and night forever and ever.

Those who died without Christ will be resurrected at this time for judgement and not salvation.

I can see by reading your post that you must listen to Irving Baxter of endtime ministries. I would be very careful what you believe as far as what he teaches. I too was a daily listener to his series on the radio and also subscribe to his magazine.

I like a lot of what he has to say, however, there are some things I must strongly disagree with. For instance, this man already has us in the sixth trumpet watch and he has cleverly fit things into his teachings that have happened to fit with his "scriptural teachings"

These trumpet judgements will happen when the seven year tribulation begins and if you will notice, they complement the vial and bowl judgements.

I do believe that the man is sincere, however, I also think he is decieved and trying too hard to make world events fit into scriptural teachings. I have seen his series Understanding the endtimes 1 (ten tapes.) and of course now he has understanding endtimes 2 which is basically correcting every thing in endtimes one because he realized he was mistaken on so many things. And so now one must shell out another $120 until he comes out with understanding endtimes 3 and 4. To corect what he was in error on in 1 and 2.

What I think is that he has no understanding of the endtimes, but does have a feel for prophecy.

However I will say that I was moved to study scripture again and get back in church after listening to his radio program a few times a few years back. and there is one thing I most definately agree with him on, and that we are indeed in the end times.

On a good note about his teachings is that I was able to glean some very good stuff from him and I still continue to listen to him now and again and some stuff I am in complete agreement with him. (Although it now seems to be more asking for funds than actual teachings). Such as post trib pre wrath rapture of the church.

I hope I am not coming off to negative on brother Baxter, but I would be careful what you listen too, especially if one is going to go about teaching such things as doctrine.

In Jesus

kevin

[JesusisGod2]

I believe we will be here during the tribulation and the bible speaks about God shorting the Tribulation for our sake. So I believe somewhere toward the end of the tribulation God steps in and says its enough, grabs his people and Wrath and Judgement beings and comes on all who are left on earth which is the Beast and his followers.

Sorry if the following was answered earlier, but I didn

[ServingHim]

Jesus is the One Who will reign for a thousand years and satan will be imprisoned in chains during this tim we call the millinial reign. He will however be realeased after the thousand years and will have one more go at decieving the nations.

so during that 1000 year reign when Jesus 'reigns', will he be the same age the entire 1000 years, and will people be able to see him like they did when he walked the earth 2000 years ago? And will other people where he reigns live and die like we do now, but Jesus stays exactly the same? Will people have children, go to church, seek Jesus the way that we do now, YET wouldn't that contradict, because Jesus would be ON EARTH? Am I missing something? just curious...this was taught to me in a bible study that I was in once, and we had to quit because the teacher who was teaching the 'tribulation' and 'left behind' and 'rapture' couldn't even answer the questions that would arise in the bible study, and this was a baptist bible study...wonderful friends of mine, but they were preaching it like they had all the answers, and in the end....no one really did.

[ServingHim]

Satan has a 1,000 year reign. God gives this to him in Revelation 20:4-10

IMHO, that seems to be happening now... doesn't it.

[ServingHim]

satan will be imprisoned in chains during this tim we call the millinial reign. He will however be realeased after the thousand years and will have one more go at decieving the nations.

don't you think satan is already busy doing this now...

[Guest dustycanvas]

If you'll reread revelation 20:4-10, you'll find that God gives Satan a 1,000 to lead one last rebellion on the Earth. After that is through, 20:7, God casts Satan into Hell once and for all. Then, God rules & reigns on the Earth for a 1,000 years before he destroys the Earth. During this final 1,000 years it is a last chance for the Jews, not the gentiles. The parable of the 10 foolish/wise virgins teaches us that the Bride (the church now) will not get a second chance. The Jewish will get a second chance because they thought Jesus CHrist was NOT God. And they will be shown othersise when Jesus plants his feet on the mount of Olives and He reveals himself as the "one who you crucified".

** Just a side note: I have a Nelson KJV Bible and above Revelation 20:4-7 it says "Satans 1,000 year reign". And NO, I didn't purchase it from Bro Baxter. LOL

I got it from a christian bookstore.

Kevin,

I do listen to Bro Baxter and believe he is an anointed man of God. We are the same denomination and he teaches as the Holy Ghost leads him to do so. But, I do not "trust" his teachings just because we are the same religion. I don't even do that with my own pastor. As the Bible says, "seek out your OWN salvation with fear & trembling" and also, "study to shew theyself approved".

Sabrina

Edited August 7, 2004 by dustycanvas

[Jedi4Yahweh]

If you'll reread revelation 20:4-10, you'll find that God gives Satan a 1,000 to lead one last rebellion on the Earth. After that is through, 20:7, God casts Satan into Hell once and for all. Then, God rules & reigns on the Earth for a 1,000 years before he destroys the Earth. During this final 1,000 years it is a last chance for the Jews, not the gentiles. The parable of the 10 foolish/wise virgins teaches us that the Bride (the church now) will not get a second chance. The Jewish will get a second chance because they thought Jesus CHrist was NOT God. And they will be shown othersise when Jesus plants his feet on the mount of Olives and He reveals himself as the "one who you crucified".

** Just a side note: I have a Nelson KJV Bible and above Revelation 20:4-7 it says "Satans 1,000 year reign".  And NO, I didn't purchase it from Bro Baxter. LOL

I got it from a christian bookstore. 

Kevin,

I do listen to Bro Baxter and believe he is an anointed man of God. We are the same denomination and he teaches as the Holy Ghost leads him to do so. But, I do not "trust" his teachings just because we are the same religion. I don't even do that with my own pastor. As the Bible says, "seek out your OWN salvation with fear & trembling"  and also, "study to shew theyself approved".

Sabrina 

I think what Rev. 20 says that after the 1000yrs rule and reign of Christ that Satan is released because during the 1000yr rule reign Satan is bound. But after the 1000yr reign he is released for a brief time and then cast into the Lake of Fire. I do not find anywhere where Satan is allowed to rule for 1000yrs.

Rev 20:7-10 (7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, (8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. (9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. (10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

God bless bro....

[Guest dustycanvas]

Jedi,

So we agree for the most part...

I'm going to look at that passage again and get back to ya.

Sabrina