Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings AllforJesustheLord,

Well the fact that everyone sinned after Adam does not mean that Christ can not make His people perfect.

All who walk in the manner of Jesus Christ, never sinning, are PERFECT, as you say. But scripture makes it plain that our very nature - mortal - even "carnal" has a propensity toward sin and whether we want to or not, sin follows us around day and night. It is a snare always waiting to catch the unwary off-guard. If you say you are WITHOUT sin, then the truth is NOT in you and you are a liar.

How do I know these things? For one they are WRITTEN, and secondly you must consider:

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 Cor 15:52-53 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Right now YOU ARE "CORRUPT", as well as myself and others, but one day we shall PUT ON INCORRUPTION, but NOT NOW. ANY CORRUPTION makes you LESS than PERFECT.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[AllforJesustheLord]

Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Whole Chapter: Luke 1 In context: Luke 1:5-7)

1 Corinthians 1:8

Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 1 In context: 1 Corinthians 1:7-9)

Philippians 2:15

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

(Whole Chapter: Philippians 2 In context: Philippians 2:14-16)

Philippians 3:6

Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

(Whole Chapter: Philippians 3 In context: Philippians 3:5-7)

1 Thessalonians 5:23

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(Whole Chapter: 1 Thessalonians 5 In context: 1 Thessalonians 5:22-24)

1 Timothy 3:2

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

(Whole Chapter: 1 Timothy 3 In context: 1 Timothy 3:1-3)

1 Timothy 3:10

And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

(Whole Chapter: 1 Timothy 3 In context: 1 Timothy 3:9-11)

1 Timothy 5:7

And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless.

(Whole Chapter: 1 Timothy 5 In context: 1 Timothy 5:6-8)

Titus 1:6

If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

(Whole Chapter: Titus 1 In context: Titus 1:5-7)

Titus 1:7

For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

(Whole Chapter: Titus 1 In context: Titus 1:6-8)

2 Peter 3:14

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

(Whole Chapter: 2 Peter 3 In context: 2 Peter 3:13-15)

context: Romans 5:20-22)

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

(Whole Chapter: Romans 6 In context: Romans 6:22-24)

This means we can have the life of Christ, meaning we will not sin, remember Christ commanded us to be perfect as The Father in heaven in perfect, this is a command.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings AllForJesusTheLord,

Tell me, can you understand the following verses? If not I will ATTEMPT to explain them to you:

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Philippians 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Philippians 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

Philippians 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Philippians 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest El_Ayin]

Evidence for the post-trib rapture

Hello all. I'm new around here and I thought I throw in my two cents.

Jesus said in Matthew 24 that immediatly after the tribulation the angels would be sent out with the sound of a trumpet to gather Gods elect.

Even the passage in 1 Thessalonians says it will be after the tribulation.

"According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that those of us who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep. -1 Thessalonians 4:15

Many pre-tribbers (is that a word?) use Luke 21:36 as a defense for the pre-trib rapture.

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

The claim is made that the use of the word "escape" means that the rapture is before the tribulation. However, the Greek word used in this passage litterally means "survive".

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to survive all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before theSon of man.

I believe this is strong evidence of the post-trib rapture.

in Christ

El_Ayin

Edited September 29, 2004 by El_Ayin

[AllforJesustheLord]

Greetings AllForJesusTheLord,

Tell me, can you understand the following verses? If not I will ATTEMPT to explain them to you:

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Philippians 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Philippians 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

Philippians 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Philippians 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Well the thought of all scripture is like this, God speaks in different areas of obedience, to us, meaning so we will be able to understand what happens in those different areas of obedience. Here are some thoughts this means Paul served God very much, and He always strove to serve God through faith working by love. Yet He did not come to the position of perfectness, as the two witnesses in Revelation will come to, yet He was perfect, but inorder to stay perfect He understood the scripture that Jesus Said, when you have done all you are commanded to do, say I am an unprofitable servant for I am only doing what I am commanded to do. So He was perfect, but God has different times to show His perfection through His people in different ways, thus He was perfect, but not in the way of the two witnesses being perfect. Also it is possible He did not reach that perfection in this world, meaning He meant when He would die He would become perfect, yet I think He became perfect eventually, on this earth in the way of not sinning anymore, or becoming like Christ.

Do you see the 144,000 are perfect as is said in Revelation.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings AllForJesusTheLord,

Also it is possible He did not reach that perfection in this world, meaning He meant when He would die He would become perfect, yet I think He became perfect eventually, on this earth in the way of not sinning anymore, or becoming like Christ.

You think, therefore you say "I Am."

Read the scriptures as God has intended, NOT WHAT YOU THINK!

Do you see the 144,000 are perfect as is said in Revelation.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Do you think these 144,000 died? Only ONE was perfect, and it certainly was not the 144,000. Your theology does not even meet the requirements of a good hermeneutic. You may as well take your lies and go elsewhere.

Your Servant in Christ,

Dad Ernie

[AllforJesustheLord]

Greetings AllForJesusTheLord,

Also it is possible He did not reach that perfection in this world, meaning He meant when He would die He would become perfect, yet I think He became perfect eventually, on this earth in the way of not sinning anymore, or becoming like Christ.

You think, therefore you say "I Am."

Read the scriptures as God has intended, NOT WHAT YOU THINK!

Do you see the 144,000 are perfect as is said in Revelation.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Do you think these 144,000 died? Only ONE was perfect, and it certainly was not the 144,000. Your theology does not even meet the requirements of a good hermeneutic. You may as well take your lies and go elsewhere.

Your Servant in Christ,

Dad Ernie

I think because I am, in Him, and we can easily see, the scriptures which say the perfect man must be come to, being like Christ in every way do you see that in the scriptures. Just because one scripture is there, we should not resist the other parts of God's Word, we must receive all then make understandings.

In Christ Jesus we are expected to become perfect, if we do not, then we are not overcomers, and we will go into the lake of fire, and brimstone as Revelation says.

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

[Guest Vic]

A friend of mine provided the address to this website and this is my first post here. These are my thoughts on the rapture.

Those that believe Christ will come before the tribulation and take them away to be with Him, so that they won

Edited September 30, 2004 by Vic

[JesusisGod2]

Hello AllforJesus,

I do understand where you are coming from, however, I do disagree with your assessment of what the perfect man is.

We will never be perfect in this life, but we are seen as perfect by God by the blood of Jesus Christ and only by this. I agree with what DadE has put forth.

The very fact that we all see the death of this body shows that we are not perfect, although not all will see death, but all will be changed.

Consider thesee following verses:

  1 Corinthians 15

41  There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;

43  it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;

We are sewn in dishonor, and Paul is speaking of all inclusive, but we are raised in glory, perfect! We will all be perfect when we pass from this life.

Philippians 1:6

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Notice Paul is saying here that the process of being made perfect is a constant, until the day that we are either raptured or we pass from this life, in otherwords until the day of Christ Jesus. To some that day may be today, when we die and are before His throne.

Philippians 3:12

Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

We are daily being made perfect, but we havel not obtained it yet!

And by the way:

Welcome Vic, to the Worthy Boards!!!!!

We look forward to your input and your fellowship!

In Jesus

kevin

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings AllForJesusTheLord,

In Christ Jesus we are expected to become perfect, if we do not, then we are not overcomers, and we will go into the lake of fire, and brimstone as Revelation says.

The day I became "born again" and Jesus became my Lord and my God, I was "made perfect" in God's sight, for I am wrapped in Christ's righteousness and NOT my own. You on the other hand retain your old clothes of "filthy rags" because you refuse to accept HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS as your own.

Yes, we need to reveal our walk in Him by our deeds, because "We are created UNTO good works." Otherwise WORKS have NOTHING to do with our salvation and being "made righteous" or "PERFECT".

Blessings,

Dad Ernie