Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[Trinity]

What does it say about the Holy Spirit and the church? What promise do you have about the Holy Spirit? The answer is that He would never leave the church.

John 14:16

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-

Now, that you've seen this, what will happen to the Holy Spirit according to the bible during the end times? Well, lets see: 2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.

Before the Antichrist can be revealed, Paul said a certain "He" must be taken out of the way. According to 2 Thess. 2:7, the "He" that must be removed is widely thought to be the Holy Spirit. It has been promised that the Holy Spirit would never leave the Church, and without the working of the Holy Spirit remaining on earth, no one could be saved during the tribulation. The removal of the Church, which is indwelt by the Holy Ghost, would seem the best explanation for this dilemma. The working of the Holy Spirit could go on during the tribulation, but His influence would be diminished because of the missing Church.

[JesusisGod2]

Amen rev,

I too think that "he" is speaking of someone other than the Holy Spirit. Perhaps an arch angel or someone along those lines. Here is an example of this idea found in Revelation:

Rev 9:14 -

one saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates."

I also agree with your insight into the trumpet. In Revelation 20 it speaks of the first ressurection and this would have to be in agreement with the ressurection spoke of in Thessalonians, which as far as I see is post trib/pre-wrath.

[Arthur Durnan]

The proferred argument for a post-trib. return of Christ for His Church is based on "love, trust and a whole lot of pixie dust." The latter mostly. So, at long last, we are led to understand that the world will indeed "get better" entirely on its very own and thus prepare the way for the coming of Jesus for His Own! INCREDIBLE BEYOND WORDS! This world is NOT "getting better," only WORSE in every respect. How in the universe can MAN produce a RENOVATED earth minus the presence of the KING of the Earth, even Jesus The righteous One? The KINGDOM without the KING!!? Revelation 3:10 gives the lie to those who would anticipate a Kingdom minus the King's vital Presence!

When one has said "turmoil," one says it all. Turmoil, tumult and twisting.

So why won't the True Church go into the Tribulation? Because Gabriel said we wouldn't be there! (Daniel 9:16,17). "Seventy weeks" (Hebrew shavu-eem (units of 7) heptad....units of 7 years as determined by context. Verse 25 & its time-block of 490 years to be interrupted by the death of the Messiah. IE, 69 "weeks of years", then a gap of 7 years...then comes the 70th week of 7 years with its anti-Messiah.

Daniel 9:26 is the key verse....God never uses or blesses TWO distinct universal programs on earth at the same time! The 70th week of daniel's 70 weeks is the time of JACOB's trouble, not the church's trouble. And the 70th week will be under O.T. sabbath law, again under God's wrath....and the true church will not experience God's wrath. Thank You, Lord Jesus!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Guest hubertdorm]

The proferred argument for a post-trib. return of Christ for His Church is based on "love, trust and a whole lot of pixie dust." The latter mostly. So, at long last, we are led to understand that the world will indeed "get better" entirely on its very own and thus prepare the way for the coming of Jesus for His Own! INCREDIBLE BEYOND WORDS! This world is NOT "getting better," only WORSE in every respect. How in the universe can MAN produce a RENOVATED earth minus the presence of the KING of the Earth, even Jesus The righteous One? The KINGDOM without the KING!!? Revelation 3:10 gives the lie to those who would anticipate a Kingdom minus the King's vital Presence!

I believe you have post-trib confused with post-millennial. It is the latter which teaches the world get's better and better until the return of Christ.

So why won't the True Church go into the Tribulation?  Because Gabriel said we wouldn't be there! (Daniel 9:16,17).

Daniel 9:16, 17 O Lord, in keeping with all your righteous acts, turn away your anger and your wrath from Jerusalem, your city, your holy hill. Our sins and the iniquities of our fathers have made Jerusalem and your people and object of scorn to all those around us. Now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of your servant. For your sake, O Lord, look with favor on your desolate sanctuary.

This is David praying. It is not dialogue from Grabriel, nor does it concern the issue of the 70th week and who is present during such. Did you mean to reference a different passage?

"Seventy weeks" (Hebrew shavu-eem (units of 7) heptad....units of 7 years as determined by context. Verse 25 & its time-block of 490 years to be interrupted by the death of the Messiah. IE, 69 "weeks of years", then a gap of 7 years...then comes the 70th week of 7 years with its anti-Messiah.

Where do you read there is a seven year gap between the 69th and 70th week? If you believe one exists, wouldn't this place on in the position that the 70th week had already occured?

Daniel 9:26 is the key verse....God never uses or blesses TWO distinct universal programs on earth at the same time! The 70th week of daniel's 70 weeks is the time of JACOB's trouble, not the church's trouble. And the 70th week will be under O.T. sabbath law, again under God's wrath....and the true church will not experience God's wrath. Thank You, Lord Jesus!

God's wrath occurs following the tribulation, which is the wrath of Satan. The church will not experience God's wrath, as you've stated. They are raptured to Christ on the day of his return, just as Noah was rescued the same day as the flood (God's wrath), and Lot was rescued the same day as the destruction of Sodom (God's wrath).

[Guest Vincere]

Hi Zeb, I have to agree with your summation of events and that the pre-tribbers are having their ears tickled. This is one of the verses from the word that, to me antway, seems to prove that the saints do in fact go through the period of tribulation.

It is from the 13th chapter of rev. KJV. v.7. and it was given unto him[beast] to make war with the saints, and to overcome them; and power was given to him over all kindred, and tongues, and nations.

Okay that one verse, to me, says a lot. e.g. How can the a/c make war against the saints if they have been secretely been raptured beforehand.

Then some of the pre-tribbers say that only the mature saints are raptured first then the rest are taken later, which suggests two second comings, which is totally ubscriptual.

Well that's my viewpoint anyway.

Have a great day in the Lord....eric

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe Christ's return begins from heaven, to the air, and then to earth. It is a timely process and during this process the firstfruits, those that are mature before the trib, are raptured first to the throne of God. Then near the end of the trib the majority of the saints are raptured to the air to meet Christ. Then there is the Marriage Feast of the Lamb. Then Christ descends to the earth with all the saints to defeat the Antichrist and his armies.

Christ be with your spirits.

[rollinTHUNDER]

It's clear that a rapture will not only happen at a trumpet, the scriptures specify that it's the last trumpet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you believe that a judgment day is in the cards for trumpets? Will God put an end to this great musical instument? Is it the last blast in a series, or will it be the last trumpet blast for all time? Oh no, what is my brother Phil Driscal going to do?

[Guest]

After 33 pages of posts here, there must be about 100 times more information that the Bible contains on the topic. While I enjoy the topic, I am not going to read through that many posts, lol, and as such, going to have to refrain from posting, for fear of being redundant. However, if anyone wants to hunt me down in a chat room, for live dialogue, I am willing to compare notes.

[Guest onfire4Christ]

I know this is a support for the Post-trib. But I would not be doing what God has put on my heart to do and the is reveal the truth if I didn't show you some scriptures for you to check out. I mean no disrepect or anything of the sort.

But the truth must be shown thru his word.

Just check this out. I know He's coming soon and the rapture will happen before the tribulation. I've got more info if you 'd like to see it. God Bless Love you all.

1. The known day and the unknown day cannot be the same day.

"But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" (Matthew 24:36). "In such an hour as you think not the Son of man comes" (Matthew 24:44).

In contrast to the unknown day, we also read about a known day. The 1260 days (Revelation 12:6) coincides with the 42 months (Revelation 13:5) or three and one-half years (Revelation 12:14). Unlike schemes of today that pretend to predict the time of the trumpet sound, this future timetable has a clear starting point, a clear duration, and a clear ending point. It begins at the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15

[Gerioke]

I hope the pretribbers are right but I'm not throwing out my survival kit just yet.

[Guest]

I hope the pretribbers are right but I'm not throwing out my survival kit just yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I used to say the same thing Gerioke! After reflection, I no longer hope pre-tribbers are right. All I want is God's will (whatever that is), not mine. If that means dieing a horrible death, so be it, he did the same for me.

Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.

1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial among you, which cometh upon you to prove you, as though a strange thing happened unto you:

13 but insomuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings, rejoice; that at the revelation of his glory also ye may rejoice with exceeding joy.

Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you (from their company), and reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

23 Rejoice in that day, and leap (for joy) for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for in the same manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Jam 1 2 Let it be all joy to you, my brothers, when you undergo tests of every sort; 3 Because you have the knowledge that the testing of your faith gives you the power of going on in hope;

Phil 3:8-11 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish in order that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10 that I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Rom 8:

17: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18: For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

35: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36: As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37: Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, northings present, nor things to come,

39: Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Tribulation? Bring it on!