Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[HAZARD]

11 hours ago, Uriah said:

I concur...well said.

This pre-Adamic race teaching was a response to those who were confronted by evolutionists with fossils and phony "science" that would later be refuted by the evolution of science itself combined with the demand for honesty in science. Those who pushed the "gap theory" would have done better to stick with believing the scriptures in the face of these people trying to come against the word of God....it never works.

No bible verses posted in this thread show a pre Adamic world. Period. 

Tis teaching relies on one word-replenish-by applying a meaning other than what the scriptures intend. Modern American thinking assigns the sense of re filling something that has been emptied out. However the biblical view is one of filling/keeping full/maintaining fullness. Think of a lake that is filled at one end by a river and drains out the other end by a river also. Therefore it is constantly replenished with new water as water leaves the other end. As people die off there are new people born to keep replenishing the population. That is the context.

Can you answer these questions?

How could the stars and sons of God shout and sing for joy when God laid the foundation of the Earth as in Job 38:4-7, if the Earth was created in the third day and the sun, moon, and stars in the fourth day of Gen. 1:9-19?

How could God create the heavens and the Earth imperfect, as in Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26, and still produce perfection in all His Works?

Where did the rebellion of Satan, angels, and his kingdom occure if nothing was created until the six days?

Why would the world covered in water, in Gen. 1:2, be an act of creation when all other floods are acts of judgment?

Why is Hell prepared for the devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41) and why is it located in the Earth (matt. 12:40; Eph. 4:7) if these rebels did not sin while on Earth before Adam?

Why would Hell be prepared for them if they did not sin first before man? If man sinned before angels, why was not Hell prepared for man instead of angels? If angels sinned first, then their sin had to be before Adam, so where did they sin if not on the Earth before Adam?

When were the vast heavens and all the billions of suns, moons, and galaxies and planets created if not before the six days?

Why was not the creation of all these things mentioned in the six days, or the details of how they were created, as is the case with the Earth and its creatures, if they were created in six days?

Why was not the creation of angels and other spirit beings mentioned in the work of six days if they were created at that time?

Where did demons come from if they are not the spirits of the pre-Adamite races? Did God create them as demons, or were they created perfect and holy as were all other things that are recorded.

If they were created holy, then they sinned on the Earth, or they would not be confined in prisons under the Earth. So when did they sin on the Earth if not before Adam?

If they were a part of Adam's creation, whey were they not mentioned at least one time since all other creatures of less importance are mentioned that were a part of the work of six days?

When did the spirits of Rev. 9 commit sin on the Earth if not before Adam?

Why are they now confined in the Earth if they did not sin on Earth?

If all angels and spirits were created at the time of Adam why did not God mention it and why did not He give them dominion over man since it  is stated that men were created lower than angels? (Ps. 8: Heb. 2). Is it God's plan for lower to rule higher creations?

Who was it that was sinful enough to cause man to sin if there were no pre-Adamite sinners to be sinful when Adam was created?

If there were not two social systems on Earth at different times, and if the only one that ever existed was created in the six days, then why is there such a vast difference between Gods infinite mercy, dealings, and means of reconciliation with man and with all other fallen creatures, since they are all of the same social system?

Why is there such jealousy and malice between man and spirit beings who are fallen if the all belong to the same creation and the same social system?

When was there war in heaven, and when was Lucifer cast out if not before Adam, as stated in Isa. 14:12-14; Ezek. 28:11-17; Luke 10:18?

Not one of these questions can be answered intelligently and scripturally unless we accept the fact that there was a pre-Adamite social system which was totally destroyed by the flood of Gen. 1:2. One might attempt to give some kind of an answer to these questions but any explanation of any Bible question that cannot be answered with at least two or three plain Scriptures on the subject is the wrong answer. Any answer that is out of harmony with Scripture on the subject is wrong and must be rejected.

[Uriah]

45 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Can you answer these questions?

Ok before I go on, are you thinking your questions are answers? (they are NOT) Because you have provided nothing scriptural as evidence of a pre-Acamic world. Which is what the particular teaching you are embracing posits. For example it historically espouses the idea of ape-like human fossils as evidence of the theory. I must assume you hold to this also.

Every one of your questions are designed as an "argument from silence" of sorts. Meaning that because it doesn't say something directly, it IS saying what you assign to it. This is on the list of logical fallacies. Even though yours are more blended into a sort of full throated speculation. One which comes pre loaded with the underlying premise of not having an answer (that you accept) means you are right. But this is not the case. Others have differing views of these verses, so it could be said that you are using them simply to fit your view.

I will return with more.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Uriah

[HAZARD]

11 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Ok before I go on, are you thinking your questions are answers? (they are NOT) Because you have provided nothing scriptural as evidence of a pre-Acamic world. Which is what the particular teaching you are embracing posits. For example it historically espouses the idea of ape-like human fossils as evidence of the theory. I must assume you hold to this also.

Every one of your questions are designed as an "argument from silence" of sorts. Meaning that because it doesn't say something directly, it IS saying what you assign to it. This is on the list of logical fallacies. Even though yours are more blended into a sort of full throated speculation. One which comes pre loaded with the underlying premise of not having an answer (that you accept) means you are right. But this is not the case. Others have differing views of these verses, so it could be said that you are using them simply to fit your view.

I will return with more.

 

In other words, you cannot explain or answer even one of these simple questions, such as, Why would the world covered in water, in Gen. 1:2, be an act of creation when all other floods are acts of judgment?

I do not believe in evolution at all, not for a moment. 

Can you explain these scriptures proving two great floods?

There were two great floods on the Earth,

1. we shall call Lucifers flood brought upon the Earth because of lucifers rebellion, and 2. Noahs flood caused by the rebellion of man. Many Scriptures show there was a great difference between them, all we need do is read every one and believe what we read.

 

The first where God destroyed His original creation because of Lucifers rebellion, and the second, Noah's flood because of mans rebellion.

Lucifers flood, everything was destroyed, all life, no light, the earth made empty and void.

Noah's flood, all life was not destroyed. Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives were left alive, plus all animals and the sun and moon was not prevented from giving light.

Here are all the Scriptures proving this occurred, read them for yourself then believe them or not??

Noahs flood which I will post as . 'N.F.' Lucifers flood, L.F.

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Earth not made waste (Gen. 8:11-12, 22 ; Heb. 11:7 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
N.F. Earth not made empty (Gen. 6:18-22 ; 8:16).

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Not made totally dark (Gen. 8:6-22)

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Light from heaven (Gen. 8:6-22).

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
N.F. Day and night (Gen. 8:1-22).

L.F. All vegetation destroyed Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen. 8:11, 21 ; 9:3, 20).

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
N.F. No rebuke or miraculous work is taking waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 ; Ps. 104:9).
N.F. The bounds already eternally set for waters in Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. No fish were destroyed of created again after Noah's flood (Gen. 1:20-23 ; 6:18-22).

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:7-17).

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:17 ; 9:2-4, 10-16).

L.F. No man left on earth in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:18 ; 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No social system left at all in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen. 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No ark made to save men in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. An ark made to save men and animals alive (Gen. 6:8-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16 ; Heb. 11:7).

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
N.F. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen. 6:5-13) ; and fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6-7 ; 2 Pet. 2:4).

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).
N.F. Results: no new creation made, for all men and animals were not destroyed (Gen. 6:18-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16).

The original creations of God include the heavens and the Earth and all things therein as first brought into being. This period is summed up in Gen. 1:1. thus: "In the beginning God created the heaven [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth." This refers to the dateless past, and takes in only a part of the creative ages, that is, from the beginning of creation until the chaotic period of Gen. 1:2 when the Earth and its first inhabitants were destroyed by the first flood. Notice during Noahs flood not all inhabitants , vegetation, animals, day, night were destroyed.

There are many other passages in Scripture that refer to that period (Job. 38; Ps. 8:3-8; 19:1-6; Prov. 8:22-31; John 1:3,10; Acts 17:24-26; Col. 1:15-18; Heb. 1:1-12; 11:3; Rev. 4:11).

In Scripture, all instances of obscuring the sun and bringing darkness are the result of judgment, not creation-which is also true of the two universal floods (Genesis 6:8-8:22; Exodus 10:21-23; Isaiah 5:30; Jeremiah 4:23-26).

All predictions of future darkness depict judgment (Matthew 8:12; Matthew 24:29-31; Rev. 6:12-17; Rev. 8:12; Rev. 9:2; Rev. 16:10; Isaiah 13:10; Joel 2:30-3:16; Amos 5:18-20).

Could we say that Genesis 1:2 is the only place in Scripture where darkness and a universal flood are not an act of judgment? If it isn't an option, then Genesis 1:2 proves that there was a pre-Adamite world destroyed by darkness and flood.

No one questions that Noah's flood was an act of judgment, or doubts the existence of free moral agents before the flood actually came. Why then doubt the existence of a pre-Adamite world which was destroyed by the darkness and flood of Genesis 1:2?

Edited July 20, 2018 by HAZARD

[Uriah]

22 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

In other words, you cannot explain or answer even one of these simple questions,

DOOD, take a breath, I said I would return with more. 

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

Can you answer these questions?

How could the stars and sons of God shout and sing for joy when God laid the foundation of the Earth as in Job 38:4-7, if the Earth was created in the third day and the sun, moon, and stars in the fourth day of Gen. 1:9-19?

How could God create the heavens and the Earth imperfect, as in Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26, and still produce perfection in all His Works?

Where did the rebellion of Satan, angels, and his kingdom occure if nothing was created until the six days?

Why would the world covered in water, in Gen. 1:2, be an act of creation when all other floods are acts of judgment?

Why is Hell prepared for the devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41) and why is it located in the Earth (matt. 12:40; Eph. 4:7) if these rebels did not sin while on Earth before Adam?

Why would Hell be prepared for them if they did not sin first before man? If man sinned before angels, why was not Hell prepared for man instead of angels? If angels sinned first, then their sin had to be before Adam, so where did they sin if not on the Earth before Adam?

When were the vast heavens and all the billions of suns, moons, and galaxies and planets created if not before the six days?

Why was not the creation of all these things mentioned in the six days, or the details of how they were created, as is the case with the Earth and its creatures, if they were created in six days?

Why was not the creation of angels and other spirit beings mentioned in the work of six days if they were created at that time?

Where did demons come from if they are not the spirits of the pre-Adamite races? Did God create them as demons, or were they created perfect and holy as were all other things that are recorded.

If they were created holy, then they sinned on the Earth, or they would not be confined in prisons under the Earth. So when did they sin on the Earth if not before Adam?

If they were a part of Adam's creation, whey were they not mentioned at least one time since all other creatures of less importance are mentioned that were a part of the work of six days?

When did the spirits of Rev. 9 commit sin on the Earth if not before Adam?

Why are they now confined in the Earth if they did not sin on Earth?

If all angels and spirits were created at the time of Adam why did not God mention it and why did not He give them dominion over man since it  is stated that men were created lower than angels? (Ps. 8: Heb. 2). Is it God's plan for lower to rule higher creations?

Who was it that was sinful enough to cause man to sin if there were no pre-Adamite sinners to be sinful when Adam was created?

If there were not two social systems on Earth at different times, and if the only one that ever existed was created in the six days, then why is there such a vast difference between Gods infinite mercy, dealings, and means of reconciliation with man and with all other fallen creatures, since they are all of the same social system?

Why is there such jealousy and malice between man and spirit beings who are fallen if the all belong to the same creation and the same social system?

When was there war in heaven, and when was Lucifer cast out if not before Adam, as stated in Isa. 14:12-14; Ezek. 28:11-17; Luke 10:18?

Not one of these questions can be answered intelligently and scripturally unless we accept the fact that there was a pre-Adamite social system which was totally destroyed by the flood of Gen. 1:2. One might attempt to give some kind of an answer to these questions but any explanation of any Bible question that cannot be answered with at least two or three plain Scriptures on the subject is the wrong answer. Any answer that is out of harmony with Scripture on the subject is wrong and must be rejected.

Job 38:4-7- v.7 is NOT disconnected from the previous verses, it is called using context. You are focusing on "stars" "singing". ....But you should consider that mountains shout for joy, trees clap their hands and the sea roars and so on. 

Then you say the Earth was created on the third day. You must actually READ things. In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth...(so what are you doing here?)

Jeremiah 4:23- Jeremiah describes things in his vision, the future! Just look at the very NEXT verse where you STOPPED. God says He SHALL (future) be desolate. V. 28 says more-"the heavens SHALL be black"...Do you ever look at the verses BEFORE and AFTER the ones you cite? (called context) You say God created the Earth imperfect- that is your opinion (as if YOU know how He SHOULD have done things. Others see it as only the first day  listed and He is at work doing things for all six. Then He say it was very good! You say He is wrong? Again READ and BELIEVE the scriptures.

 

So that is only  a couple of your points answered. I now think you CAN read and are deliberately isolating things and putting a spin on them in hopes that other gullible types will fall fall for it.

 

[HAZARD]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

Job 38:4-7- v.7 is NOT disconnected from the previous verses, it is called using context. You are focusing on "stars" "singing". ....But you should consider that mountains shout for joy, trees clap their hands and the sea roars and so on. 

Then you say the Earth was created on the third day. You must actually READ things. In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth...(so what are you doing here?)

Jeremiah 4:23- Jeremiah describes things in his vision, the future! Just look at the very NEXT verse where you STOPPED. God says He SHALL (future) be desolate. V. 28 says more-"the heavens SHALL be black"...Do you ever look at the verses BEFORE and AFTER the ones you cite? (called context) You say God created the Earth imperfect- that is your opinion (as if YOU know how He SHOULD have done things. Others see it as only the first day  listed and He is at work doing things for all six. Then He say it was very good! You say He is wrong? Again READ and BELIEVE the scriptures.

 

So that is only  a couple of your points answered. I now think you CAN read and are deliberately isolating things and putting a spin on them in hopes that other gullible types will fall fall for it.

 

Put your thinking cap on. The only time the earth has ever been without form and void was before the 6 days of Gen. 1:3-2:25 when it was made chaos through the fall of Lucifer and the pre-adamites, when God brought the first Great universal flood upon the earth to destroy all life (Gen. 1:2; 2 Peter 3:5-7).

The statement without form and void means desolate and empty.

The only time when the sun, moon and stars of heaven were forbidden to give light on the earth was in the period before the six days of re-creation, as in Gen. 1;2. There had been light on the earth when it was first created, in the beginning Gen. 1;1, and there has been light ever since the first day of Gen. 1:3-31; so the period of such darkness took place on the earth some time after the beginning and before the restoration to a second habitable state in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25. Permanent and eternal laws were given to the sun, moon, and stars at this time as proved by Jer. 31:35-36; Gen. 1:14-19; Ps. 72:5, 17; 89:35-37.

The mountains and hills have been moved and will yet by moved by earthquakes, but there never has been a time since Adam to this day, nor will there ever be a time from our day into all eternity that the earth has been or will be without a man, bird, or fruitful place, as seen by Jeremiah, and referred to in V 25. Therefore we are required by facts to associate Jer. 4:23-26 with the same time as that of Gen.1:2;  and we are made to realise that there were men, birds, and fruitful places on the earth before Adam's time that were destroyed by the flood of Gen. 1:2; 2 Peter 3:5-7.

One thing is certain, Jer. 4:23-26 could not apply to the time of Noah, for at that time the heavens had lights, and there were men, birds, and fruitful places left on the earth after the flood; whereas, in the case of the curse brought upon the original earth, none of these things remained.

Therefore,if we rightly divide the Word of Truth we should associate Jer. 23-26 with Gen. 1:2 and 2 Peter 3:5-6, recognising that there had been light, fixed mountains and hills, men, birds, fruitful places and cities on the earth before this curse, and before Adam and the six day work of restoration to a second habitable state as in Gen. 1:3-2; 25.

The purpose of God showing Jeremiah the totally destruction of life on the earth in Jer. 4:23-26 was to reveal how the Land of Judah would be destroyed, and to make comparison between the two times. In the original judgment on the whole earth all life had been destroyed but in Judah God was to make an exception; He declared He would not make a full end as on the original earth.

Look here, read these scriptures again and see the difference. There were two great floods on the Earth,

1. we shall call Lucifers flood brought upon the Earth because of lucifers rebellion, and 2. Noahs flood caused by the rebellion of man. Many Scriptures show there was a great difference between them, all we need do is read every one and believe what we read.

 

The first where God destroyed His original creation because of Lucifers rebellion, and the second, Noah's flood because of mans rebellion.

Lucifers flood, everything was destroyed, all life, no light, the earth made empty and void.

Noah's flood, all life was not destroyed. Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives were left alive, plus all animals and the sun and moon was not prevented from giving light.

Here are all the Scriptures proving this occurred, read them for yourself then believe them or not??

Noahs flood which I will post as . 'N.F.' Lucifers flood, L.F.

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Earth not made waste (Gen. 8:11-12, 22 ; Heb. 11:7 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
N.F. Earth not made empty (Gen. 6:18-22 ; 8:16).

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Not made totally dark (Gen. 8:6-22)

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Light from heaven (Gen. 8:6-22).

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
N.F. Day and night (Gen. 8:1-22).

L.F. All vegetation destroyed Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen. 8:11, 21 ; 9:3, 20).

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
N.F. No rebuke or miraculous work is taking waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 ; Ps. 104:9).
N.F. The bounds already eternally set for waters in Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. No fish were destroyed of created again after Noah's flood (Gen. 1:20-23 ; 6:18-22).

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:7-17).

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:17 ; 9:2-4, 10-16).

L.F. No man left on earth in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:18 ; 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No social system left at all in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen. 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No ark made to save men in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. An ark made to save men and animals alive (Gen. 6:8-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16 ; Heb. 11:7).

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
N.F. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen. 6:5-13) ; and fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6-7 ; 2 Pet. 2:4).

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).
N.F. Results: no new creation made, for all men and animals were not destroyed (Gen. 6:18-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16).

 

 

[Uriah]

I see that you have failed to correct your error about the Earth being created on the third day when I showed you how it was made IN THE BEGINNING. Can't see the error in that? Or just hope that by continuing the distraction I will be convinced?

You also have now done the same by ignoring what I said about what SHALL be. Amos 5:20- Will the day of the LORD not be darkness, and not light? Even very dark, and no brightness in it?....

Isaiah 24:19- The earth is violently broken,
The earth is split open,
The earth is shaken exceedingly.

Joel 3:15- The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining

Now you see why this an eschatology area. So why do you insist on inserting your creation account?

Edited July 20, 2018 by Uriah

[HAZARD]

9 hours ago, Uriah said:

I see that you have failed to correct your error about the Earth being created on the third day when I showed you how it was made IN THE BEGINNING. Can't see the error in that? Or just hope that by continuing the distraction I will be convinced?

You also have now done the same by ignoring what I said about what SHALL be. Amos 5:20- Will the day of the LORD not be darkness, and not light? Even very dark, and no brightness in it?....

Isaiah 24:19- The earth is violently broken,
The earth is split open,
The earth is shaken exceedingly.

Joel 3:15- The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining

Now you see why this an eschatology area. So why do you insist on inserting your creation account?

ON THAT DAY, when the Lord returns to put down all rebellion and rule the earth from Mount Zion.

Isiah 24: 19-23,  V,19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. 
    20, The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. 
    21, And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 
    22, And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit,9 and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.10 
    23, Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before1 his ancients gloriously. 

 

I see you are leaving this alone !

Lucifers flood, everything was destroyed, all life, no light, the earth made empty and void.

Noah's flood, all life was not destroyed. Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives were left alive, plus all animals and the sun and moon was not prevented from giving light.

Here are all the Scriptures proving this occurred, read them for yourself then believe them or not??

Noahs flood which I will post as . 'N.F.' Lucifers flood, L.F.

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Earth not made waste (Gen. 8:11-12, 22 ; Heb. 11:7 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
N.F. Earth not made empty (Gen. 6:18-22 ; 8:16).

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Not made totally dark (Gen. 8:6-22)

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Light from heaven (Gen. 8:6-22).

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
N.F. Day and night (Gen. 8:1-22).

L.F. All vegetation destroyed Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen. 8:11, 21 ; 9:3, 20).

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
N.F. No rebuke or miraculous work is taking waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 ; Ps. 104:9).
N.F. The bounds already eternally set for waters in Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. No fish were destroyed of created again after Noah's flood (Gen. 1:20-23 ; 6:18-22).

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:7-17).

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:17 ; 9:2-4, 10-16).

L.F. No man left on earth in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:18 ; 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No social system left at all in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen. 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No ark made to save men in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. An ark made to save men and animals alive (Gen. 6:8-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16 ; Heb. 11:7).

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
N.F. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen. 6:5-13) ; and fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6-7 ; 2 Pet. 2:4).

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).
N.F. Results: no new creation made, for all men and animals were not destroyed (Gen. 6:18-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16).

 

[Uriah]

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6). 

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.  No Lucifer seen here!

I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. Still, one devil missing!

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water, Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. Nope! Not here either.

It will be the same for the rest of them, I assure you. Here is a better idea- provide a bible verse, or two or three that says what you claim. Please.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Uriah

[HAZARD]

55 minutes ago, Uriah said:

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6). 

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.  No Lucifer seen here!

I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. Still, one devil missing!

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water, Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. Nope! Not here either.

It will be the same for the rest of them, I assure you. Here is a better idea- provide a bible verse, or two or three that says what you claim. Please.

Scriptures show that originally, Long before Adam and Eve were created, God created the Earth and placed Lucifer as ruler of the society there.

 

God gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before "Iniquity was found in him. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Before Adam Lucifer was the ruler of the Earth.

God is taking about Lucifer in these Scriptures. He was a perfectly created arc angel;

 

"Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Lucifer wanted to control the universe and knock God off His throne. He over a long period of time convinced one third of God's angels to rebell with him and they rebelled against God and His universal rule, and invaded heaven to try and de-throne God Himself. (Ezek 28:17; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God concerning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrine is so simple for most men to understand, so they reject it. Especially many churches for some reason.

2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:

But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance. In Isa. 14:12-14 we have statements which cannot possibly of an earthly King. The passage is universally refering to the fall of Satan. We can quote it and note the facts.

"How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which dist weaken the nations! For thou art hast said in thine heart, I WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN, I WILL EXALT MY THRONE above the stars of God: I WILL sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE like the most High," Now note the following facts this passage proves of Satan:

1. That his name is Lucifer.

2. That he was a son of the morning, and therefore, no earthly man.

3. That he fell from Heaven. This could never be spoken of a man. Satan is the only person in all Scripture who is spoken of as falling from Heaven (Luke 10:18).

4. That he was cut down to the ground in his fall.

5. That he weakened the nations on Earth.

6. That he was exalted in his heart.

7. That he invaded hHeaven where God rules.

8. That he was a KING, for he had a Throne and SUBJECTS over whom he ruled.

9. That he wanted to exalt his kingdom above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven itself to dethrone God.

10. That he wanted to be worshiped in the congregation of God (Ps. 72:2; 82:1; Isa. 6:1).

11. That he led a rebellion against God but was defeated.

12. That his kingdom was on Earth, or he never could have tried to ascend above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven. When a kingdom is located under the clouds it has to be on the Earth.

13. That the ground, clouds, stars, and Heaven were already created.

14. That it had to be before Adam, for this was not the position of Lucifer when he was in Adam's Eden. Adam had dominion at that time. Lucifer had no kingdom on the Earth at the time of Adam and he has not had one since in the sense of a visible personal rule on Earth. He has only ruled through others since Adam's day; so this must refer to a time before Adam.

15. That he was not in Heaven when he rebelled, else he could not have desired to ascend into Heaven. He was under the stars, or he could not have desired to be exalted above the stars. He was under the clouds, or he could not have desired to ascend above them.

16. That God's throne is located in the north part of the universe (Psalms 75:6-7). Thus, this passage proves the location of Satan's original kingdom and the time of his fall. It was located on Earth, and his fall was before Adam, for he was all ready a fallen creature when he entered Adam' Eden.

In Coll. 1:15-18 we read of Christ creating thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers in Heaven and on Earth. They were located somewhere in the heavens and on the Earth. Lucifer was given a kingdom here on Earth, as proved by the passages cited above. His own subjects were earthly creatures of various kinds which were destroyed when the flood of Gen. 1:2 came upon the Earth. God created the Earth to be inhabited by earthly creatures (Isa. 45:18). They are called "nations" in the above passages. The demons who are now Satans emissaries could well be the spirits of the pre-Adamites. At any rate they are not part of the creation at the time of Adam. Thus Isaiah teaches the the Earth was inhabited before Adam and was ruled by Lucifer, whos' kingdom was overthrown when he rebelled.

There is so, so much more found in Scripture regarding this doctrin, many dozens of Scriptures support this. If this is false teaching, it amuses me that no one comes up with nothing more than Noah's flood, which occured much later, did not compleatly destroy the Earth, shake mountains, turn them upside down, turned off the stars and the sun so that there was no light. God had already created the Heavens, they were in existence as well as the Earth only their lights were withheld from shining on the Earth thus causing darkness Gen. 1:2. There was no darkness during Noah's flood? There were men and animals on the earth before Noah's flood, and Noah and his family and the animals survived the flood and were on the Eart after it?

That the Earth ONLY was (became) without form and void (Hebrew tohu vabobu, litterally wast and ruin or desolate and empty), as in Gen. 1:2. That there were mountains of Earth that were shaken and turned upside down by an earthquake so severe, which no doubt caused the remains of animals to be deposited in the very depths of the Earth beneath many layers of solid rock, such as are now been found. Noah's flood never buried animals hundreds of meters beneath solid rock.

Many other scriptures apart from those above can be presented to prove the doctrin of a pre-Adamite world.

To try and put this in a nutshell, God created the heavens first, then the Earth, all in the beginning or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). He caused the heavens and the Earth to be inhabited and gave Lucifer control of the Earth-kingdom, don't believe me, read, (Coll. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer ruled the earth for God for an unknown period before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and dethrone God. Not my idea, read (Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). He was defeated and his kingdom on Earth was destroyed by a flood and the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).

The Earth was turned upside down, a process which caused all the present formations of the Earth. The flood remained on the Earth for an unknown period of time, and then God in six days restored the Earth to a habitable state and made Adam and Eve and his creation to carry out the original plan of God concerning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer, now called Satan, and the spirit rebels caused man to fall, and they regained dominion of the earth through Adam's submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). They have been in control ever since and will be in control untill the second coming of Christ, who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium and make a New Heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth all righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5). Why does science show the earth to be many millions of years old and the Bible "(allegedly)" says it is only six thousand years old? So, as with everything missunderstood in Scripture men call what they do not understand a theory. Hence, the gap theory, or even a herecy. But there was a gap and its no theory. Scripture shows there was a creation "in the beginning" and then a re-creation.

If we take the time to carefully read all the Scriptures regarding this doctrin and not just skim over them retaining old knowledge in the mind, and the READ these below, which backs up what is said, and see for yourselves

You see, God spoke, and as soon as the materials were made, God created and formed with His hands the heavens, with all its light and darkness first, then the Earth, all in the beginning, or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). God created the heavens and the earth to be inhabited and He gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Col. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and de-throne (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God conserning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is too simple for most men to understand, so they reject it.

Now, 2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrine of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrine of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Just as God told Adam and Eve to do when He restored the Earth to a habitable state and He created them, Genesis 1:28, “And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth”

 

Ezekiel 28:11-18).

The  earthly king of Tyre was Ithobalus 11, The supernatural king of Tyre was Lucifer, who is mostly referred to in this prophecy (V. 11-19), as proved by the many statements that could not possibly apply to any earthly man.

No earthly king of Tyre was ever in Eden, as was does this angel, nor does this Eden refer to Adam's Eden although Lucifer was in it also (Gen. 3; 2 Cor. 11:3). The Eden here was a garden in the earth when he ruled in perfection and sinlessness before he fell (V. 13).

Ezek. 28:14-16, Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

V. 15, Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
V. 16, By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

No angel was in any holy mountain of God when an earthly king of Tyre ruled, so the reference is to the eternal past when the cherub himself had a literal throne on earth on the holy mountain of God.

Here we have an insight into the position of Lucifer before his fall, and a revelation regarding the cause of his fall (V. 13-17). The term mountain of God occurs seven times (V. 14, 16; Ex. 3:1; 4:27; 18:5; 24:13; 1 Kings 19:8). The mountain of the Lord occurs six times(Gen. 22:14; Num. 10:33; Isa. 2:3; 30:29: Mic. 4:2; Zech. 8:3). All these Scriptures do not refer to the same mountain in the same place, as can be seen from the various passages.

 

The time of his iniquity was when he rebelled against God to exalt his throne and kingdom from earth to heaven (Isa. 14:12-14). The time of his corruption and sin was surely before the days of Adam for Lucifer was already a fallen creature at the time he came into Adams Eden (Gen. 2; 2 Cor. 11:3).

Heb. rekullah, traffic. It refers to Lucifers walking up and down slandering God to his own subjects on earth, and to God's subjects among the angels, until he had all his earthly subjects rebelling against the creator, as well as over one-third of the angels (Isa. 14:12-14; 2 Pet. 3:4-6; Rev. 12:4). Whatever it was, it is clear here that the behaviour resulted in violence; and Lucifer sinned and broke with God. This could never refer to an earthly king, as the ruler of Tyre, carrying on ordinary trade with the nations. It definitely concerns the traffic of a cherub, not a man. All trade between nations in the entire world could not cause an angel to sin as here in V.16.

Lucifer has already been humbled before kings for he was cast down to the ground before all the nations over whom he ruled previous to the time of Adam (Isa.14:12-14). He will again be brought down in the deepest humiliation before the kings of the earth whom he will lead with Antichrist in the battle of Armageddon (Rev. 12:7-12; 16:13-16; 19:11-21; 30:1-3). Then again at the end of the Millennium he will be brought down to Hell before all the kings and others who will spend eternity with him in the lake of FIRE (Matt. 25:41; Rev. 20:10).

Edited July 21, 2018 by HAZARD