Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[JesusisGod2]

But many will fall away, and not only that, they will turn those of the body of Christ over to the authorities, maybe they will think they are fanatics, I dont know, but the scriptures say it will happen.

In Mathew 24:10 "And at that time many will fall away and will deliver up one another and hate one another" 

Now these are believers He is speaking of, those who are unprepared for the events about to take place. These will be tough times foreveryone striking fear in the hearts of men. So much so that brother will turn in brother and sister sister.

Hi Kevin,

It appears that you have jumped on the wrong bandwagon.  This happened on the old board as well.  That's why I tried to nip it in the bud before it got to that point again on this board.  It started off as one person, then it started spreading like gangrene.  It's rotten fruit that will only cause division among us.

I am not really sure what you are saying here thunder, what band wagon?

I am just relaying what my understanding of the scripture is, right or wrong.

I respect those of you who choose to believe in a post-trib, or whatever stance you may take.  But all it takes is for someone to start taking a scripture out of context and the next thing ya know,  brethren start pointing fingers and then you have a full blown war going on.  That's what someone did with the verse you quoted on the other board, and then others started jumping on.  But it is easy to prove him wrong.

Actually thunder, you may claim to respect others views but your responses says otherwise. You come off as very critical at times and at times rude.

He claimed using Matt.24:10, that the pre-trib believers would be offended after they found out that the rapture didn't happen pre-trib as they thought it would.

I really dont think that is quite what was said, the statement was that some who take the pre-trib stance, will not be prepared for what is about to come upon the world.

So they will supposedly turn their anger towards the post-tribbers.  I guess he assumes they are mad because the post-tribbers were right,

Can you show me where such a statement was made? I believe it was more along the lines that those who arent prepared for the events will be the ones who will turn against their own, thinking they are doing God service.

who knows?  I said I could prove that theory wrong, so I guess now would be the appropriate time to do so.

Lets hear it, I am definately open to correction.

My first suggestion would be to stick with the King James Version.  Some of the newer versions really butcher scripture.  Now lets compare the verse you quoted with other like verses:

I read the King James quite a bit, but actually they claim that the new American Standard is the one closer to the greek.

KJV, Matthew 24:9-10 - "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

(10)And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another."

Mark 13:11-12 - "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

(12)Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death."

Luke 21:15-16 - "For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

(16)And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death."

As you can plainly see, post-tribbers are not being betrayed by pre-tribbers.  These are natural blood relatives.

Actually I do repent and seek your forgiveness, I made a statement like that and it was out of line.

But the fact remains in my understanding of the scripture that it will be believers turning in believers as well as family turning in family.

Look at the church today, there is gossip, slander, back bitting, and there isnt even any persecution. This will be along the lines of what will happen during tribulation. But on a larger scale.

The ones who will turn, are those not firmly rooted in the word of God, and do not really understand what is taking place. Look around your own place of worship!

Jesus refers to the betrayal of brethren, before He speaks of family or blood relatives.

Its really a shame.

Kevin,  I do respect your beliefs in the post-trib if that's what you want to believe.

Thanks thunder, but I will say that this is not what I want to believe, I mean who wants the thought that we are going to go through what is about to come upon the world? But Jesus will be there with and for us, and in this is our hope.

I hope your right and we meet in the air and I can tell you personally, man was I wrong, Praise God.

I enjoy talking about such things, but it can get real ugly when someone starts trying to bring division.  God bless you as you seek!

Why would someones stance on post trib, which they believe is what the scripture says, cause division?

Thanks thunder

And to you thunder.

In Jesus

Kevin

[Guest shadow2b]

I respect those of you who choose to believe in a post-trib, or whatever stance you may take.  But all it takes is for someone to start taking a scripture out of context and the next thing ya know,  brethren start pointing fingers and then you have a full blown war going on.  That's what someone did with the verse you quoted on the other board, and then others started jumping on.  But it is easy to prove him wrong.

Actually thunder, you may claim to respect others views but your responses says otherwise. You come off as very critical at times and at times rude.

-yOoooo--hoooo---KEV....how ya doin bro??been following this thread, some very good questions & answers.

-WeLL,the"ONE"-word that should "define"anything about{a rapture--catching away--gathering to}is in

-REV.3.vs.10-"KEEP"

-REV.3.vs.10

-Because thou hast kept the word of my patience,I also will "KEEP"thee from the hour of temptation

-which shall come upon all the world,to try them that dwell upon the earth....

-the word "KEEP"as defined in "strong's"is---GR.5083--"tereo"{a watch- perh.akin to 2334}to guard{from loss or injury,prop.,by keeping the eye upon,thus differing from 5442,which is prop.to prevent escaping and

-from 2892,which implies a fortress or full military lines of apparatus}I.E. to note{a prophecy;fig.to fulfil a

-command}by impl.to detain {in custody;fig.to maintain} by extens.to with hold for personal ends;fig.to keep

-unmarried};hold fast;keep{er,}{ob,pre,re.}serve,watch...{ob-serve--pre--serve--re--serve}

-From the above definitions we could propose several scenarios as to "what"the saints "WILL"or could

-experience during "the great tribulation".....But, tereo--"keep" means to ---"keep"the eye upon----NOW IF

-the almighty GOD states HE will "KEEP" HIS eye upon ME--you-anyone--it should be of GREAT comfort to ALL.

-I mean "what" greater statement could be made to {christians}& what more comfort could we experience

-when GOD HIMSELF says "I WILL KEEP MY EYE UPON YOU"......how about "GUARD"GOD GUARDS??--how

-about---"ob--serve---pre--serve---re--serve"GOD"--"ob--serves--pre-serves--re--serves"?????

-How about GOD {keeping HIS BRIDE --UNMARRIED}HIS BRIDE HAS MADE HERSELF WORTHY--HOW???

-BY ENDURING TO THE END---THE-OVERCOMER-------

-How about "ONLY"those that have "COME-OUT-OF-THE-GREAT-TRIBULATION--will rule & reign with CHRIST

-for the thousand years???--REV.7.vss.13.thru.17---- kind-a-strange isn't it that those

-that were "raptured" BEFORE the great-tribulation are not even mentioned here isn't it??JUST & ONLY THOSE

-that have "come-out-of"{gone-thru-}the tribulation are the ones that rule & reign with CHRIST isn't it????

- strange strange strange huhhhh????I could add more scripture but I think that should

-be enough to inspire the "inquiring minds" that "want to know"...

[Brad]

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[Guest sword of truth]

One of my reasons for post-trib

Revelation 16: 12-21.

[Guest choobaca]

AMEN Adstar to Rev 16:15

choobaca

[JesusisGod2]

Amen Sword of truth,

Very good insight! Good post.

And in case no one has already done so, Welcome to the Worthy Boards, we look forward to your input and insight.

God be blessed.

In Jesus

Kevin

[Brad]

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[RCruise]

Does anyone have a comment about this?

Elijah was caught up physically into heaven as in type or foreshadowing of the coming of the Lord and our personal rapture, yet Elijah returned through John the Baptist as Jesus said in Matt.11. Why not then would Jesus not return through another physical body or bodies such as the body of Christ? I believe the glorified bodies that we receive, is just being in oneness in the body of Christ. After all the Body of Christ is a spiritual glorified body.

:x: :wow: :upsided: :suspect: or WHAT :bright:

Brad,

I will happily comment on that

First of all the Scripture tells us that John the Baptist was the promised coming of the messenger before the Lord's descent into Christ. But, John himself denied being "that prophet" to the pharisees when he was asked. Can you discern as to why he denied it when Christ said to his own disciples that John was Elijah?

Christ "came down from above" as He repeatedly stated. He was already given the only body (flesh) that He would ever have and God rose that same broken and pierced body and Christ ascended back to Heaven in that same body. But, what did the angels standing by the disciples say to them when they "marvelled" at His ascent?

Answer these few questions Biblically and you will probably be able to answer yourself as to why Christ will not come back by indwelling sinful flesh (for John the Baptist was born of procreation of both his mother and father while Jesus was created in the womb and not of seed).

Finally, what did Christ say about how He would return in Matthew 24 and even warned of anyone saying He was already here or there or would return in any other fashion?

[Brad]

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[JesusisGod2]

Hi Brad,

This is some beautiful scripture you have posted, but I am still not sure what you are asking in your origional question.

It is true that Spirit of God indwells the body of Christ which is the Church, but when Christ returns, are you saying that He will be presented as the church?

If this is so, then I would have to disagree, although Christ is all and in all, He had a special body prepared for Him.

It says somewhere in the Psalms I believe it is, but the exact verse escapes me, something to the effect of:

"A body thou hast prepared for Me, I have come to do thy will oh God"

Christ will have His own unique body, He is an example of the perfect man, but He is indeed God Almighty.

Now I could be misunderstanding what you are saying here, if so please forgive me.

Is this what you are saying?