Israel in Prophesy (still future vs 1948)

[AandW_Rootbeer]

Verses 1-16 tells us the first Tribulation is about the Temple being destroyed and the AoD of Daniel and the people who are Judeans is warned to hide because this is where the prophecy of Luke comes into play about the Destruction of Jerusalem where the Gentile trodden.

 

Verse 16 tells us who Christ is giving this Warning to:

 

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

 

This happened in 70 A.D.

[Alive]

7 minutes ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

Verses 1-16 tells us the first Tribulation is about the Temple being destroyed and the AoD of Daniel and the people who are Judeans is warned to hide because this is where the prophecy of Luke comes into play about the Destruction of Jerusalem where the Gentile trodden.

 

Verse 16 tells us who Christ is giving this Warning to:

 

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

 

This happened in 70 A.D.

IMO--this much at least is clear as I have read the scriptures.

[dad2]

2 minutes ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

Verses 1-16 tells us the first Tribulation is about the Temple being destroyed and the AoD of Daniel and the people who are Judeans is warned to hide because this is where the prophecy of Luke comes into play about the Destruction of Jerusalem where the Gentile trodden.

 

Verse 16 tells us who Christ is giving this Warning to:

 

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

 

This happened in 70 A.D.

No. 

Matthew 24:15

 

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Matthew 24:16

 

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

 

 

You cannot claim that the abomination of desolation already was placed thousands of years ago. In case you do not understand that, here is Gabriel from the throne of God to explain it for you.

 

 

Daniel 12:11

 

And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

That cannot be hundreds or thousands of years. That has to be near the very end.

[AandW_Rootbeer]

41 minutes ago, dad2 said:

Daniel 12:11

 

And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

That cannot be hundreds or thousands of years. That has to be near the very end.

See the words you darkened and now read the words in Verse 11 you did not darken, <that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away>

 

The whole Verse is speaking about <that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away>

 

When the Temple was destroyed, <that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away> the abomination took place, and the desolation has been sitting there ever since that moment around 70 A.D.

[dad2]

6 minutes ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

See the words you darkened and now read the words in Verse 11 you did not darken, <that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away>

 

The whole Verse is speaking about <that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away>

 

When the Temple was destroyed, <that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away> the abomination took place, and the desolation has been sitting there ever since that moment around 70 A.D.

The verse speaks about the sacrifice and the abomination actually. There is no way you can chainsaw the verse to pick out something you can try to make appear to fit your prophesy denying pet theory. 

 

Daniel 12:11

 

And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

That is not thousands of years. But the same chapter points out that this will not be understood! You fulfil that prophesy.

 

Another verse that shows that this is all for the very end time is verse 9

 

Daniel 12:9

 

He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

 

Daniel 12:9

 

He answered, "You must go now, Daniel, because these words are to be kept secret and hidden until the end comes.

 

 That does not mean 70AD!

[dad2]

4 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Quote

 

Yes, and Jesus said "those days" would happen in "this generation," not that generation. Jesus said on one would know the day or time but it would happen in this generation. SOME Christians appeal to the comments about the fig tree interpreting the mention of the fig tree to say "when those things happen then they will happen." Yep, I wrote that exactly as I intended. "When the fig tree's branches are tender then these events will occur." 

That is not what the text actually states. 

That is a 19th century interpretation that was added to the scriptures, an invention the Church has NEVER held before the apocalyptic restoration movements arose. What the text actually states is a simple comparison: there are going to be signs by which YOU, the disciples to whom I am now talking, will know. Just when the fig tree's branches are tender and putting forth its leaves you know spring is coming, so to when YOU the ones to whom I am now talking will know the aforementioned judgment of the Pharisees and the temple's destruction and the signs of my coming are upon you because.....

You will hear of wars and rumors of wars...
You will see/hear the birth pangs of nations vying against nations and earthquakes and famines...
You will be handed over to tribulation...
You will be hated by other nations...
You will hear of false teachers and false prophets...
You will see the abomination of desolation...

 

Jesus did not use the word, "They..." Jesus did NOT say, "They will see...." He looked his disciples in the eye and answered their question with "You will see...." 

 

All believers are His fold. We are not 'they'. Like Paul said about the Rapture  'we that at alive..' That does not mean Paul had to be there. He knew he would not be because that man of sin was not revealed in his time. The signs of the end were given and He said that when we see these things start to happen, then the generation who see this would not pass away till it was finished! There is no way that anyone can say the signs already happened.

 

 

Quote

How do you think they understood the word "you"? 

If it was in the context of the future they would know He was talking about those other sheep He has yet to come. The apostles were not the only saved folks! There were maybe hundreds of disciples. There was Mary and the families also, probably most of which were believers. There is all the people yet to come that Jesus talked about. So the main thing to look at is the context of what is being talked about. Has it happened yet? Did it happen to people in the past? 

 

 

 

Quote

So, if we do in fact read not just a few of the verses, as you suggest, but read ALL of the verses we find Jesus repeatedly, time after time after time after time after time speaking to the disciples about the disciples and what they would see. That is what the text states.

We are the ones He was talking to when it comes to things that would happen in the future (or at least believers alive when the things started to happen) The bible was written for us! It was for all of us then and now! So we need to look at what is prophesied to put it in the right context. Could it have happened already? The events of Revelation and Daniel and etc. cannot have happened yet.

 

 

Quote

Twenty centuries later we may not understand exactly how they witnessed all of those things occurring but if we stick to scripture and believe it as written then they happened in the generation of that audience. 

We can notice that they never yet happened! He that has an ear let him hear.

Quote

 

And you'll notice Israel wasn't mentioned once. 

What's the topic of this op? "Israel in Prophecy Still Future vs 1948". 

 

Israel was the primary focus of many prophesies actually. When it talks about Jerusalem that is in Israel you know. When armies surround Jerusalem, guess where that is?

 

 

Quote

 

I've noticed you say many tribulations have occurred and I agree. However, of what tribulation is scripture speaking? Because in Matthew 24 Jesus is speaking of a tribulation the disciples would themselves see. I noticed you said we Christians would not see the tribulation. Any Christian who uses Matthew 24 to justify their end times view of a tribulation MUST acknowledge the truth of verse 9. 

Matthew 24:9
"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name."

So either Matthew 24 is talking about a tribulation that hasl already happened or Christians will in fact go through the tribulation. 

 

It is easy to see when Jesus was primarily talking about. In verse three we see this 

Matthew 24:3

 

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The folks He was talking to there would not see the end of the world. Case closed.

 

4 minutes ago, Josheb said:

 

Well, the reason that should be done is because Matthew's narrative is not limited just chapter 24! That section of Matthew's gospel covers FIVE chapters(!) and covers one single day in Jesus' life that begins in the morning the day after he entered Jerusalem and concludes with the evening of that same day. If you want to understand what Jesus is saying in Matthew 24 then read the entire narrative, beginning with Mt. 21:18 and concluding with Mt. 26:5.

That is why I pointed you to verses near what you were trying to quote for context.  If there is something in the five chapters you mention that you think helps you, clue us in!

[dad2]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

I just did. 

The audience affiliation plainly stated in the text precludes your view of the text. The text itself, not my interpretation of the text, refutes your position. Start with the audience affiliation. The entire narrative is about the soon pending judgment of Israel, the Pharisees and the Levitical priesthood and the destruction of the stone temple.

There's not a single word in any of it referencing the 21st century and I defy you to find any such mention. 

Your ideas go against actual context and are based on nothing. The context was the end of the world. The bible makes it clear we are all His children and family. When it talks about those people who see things in the distant future it would be foolish to say it was the folks listening that day He meant.

[Alive]

1 minute ago, dad2 said:

Your ideas go against actual context and are based on nothing. The context was the end of the world.

Will you show me where scripture states this?

[dad2]

6 minutes ago, Alive said:

Will you show me where scripture states this?

Why would Scripture deal with people trying to deny what it says? The chapter that was raised here clearly talked about the end of the world. That should do it for you. Were the people standing there going to see the end of the world?! No. Guess who He must be talking to?

[Riverwalker]

4 minutes ago, dad2 said:

Why would Scripture deal with people trying to deny what it says? The chapter that was raised here clearly talked about the end of the world. That should do it for you. Were the people standing there going to see the end of the world?! No. Guess who He must be talking to?

So in other words you have no scripture to support your ideas