Will the Lord find faith upon the earth?

[R. Hartono]

9 hours ago, Josheb said:

Point of clarification: The word "church" or "ecclesia" never refers to a building beyond that which is the building of believers (people, not bricks) in the Bible. 

Exactly, as Jesus Saw many church buildings only, without OIL.

[Mike Mclees]

When Paul said I am the chefest of sinners I feel also as he . Still the Lord has blessed me with understanding of certain things. The question who are the ones of faith? I noticed that one of my comments was cut. maybe it sounded to personal but really it applied to all of us but in a personal way.as to give thought. I will try to explain God willing. 

I would like to look at the word Christian. In the early days a Antioch it soke of a particular group known as followers of Christ. It was given to these followers by the people of Antioch who were not believers themselves.  The word just became a word that described them in particular. As the word spread it became the name for followers of Jesus Gospel. Not by the believers themselves but by the people through out Rome 

What does this meant to us today? A whole lot because today Christion has become a world that means almost anything, any denomination weather right or wrong. peculiar ideals and the don right falls. i pray there are those who know what I am talking about. The word Christian is just an umbrella word that no longs associates to what it once did. So now the question will the lord fine faith upon the earth?

 

[Mike Mclees]

When Paul said I am the chefest of sinners I feel also as he . Still the Lord has blessed me with understanding of certain things. The question who are the ones of faith? I noticed that one of my comments was cut. maybe it sounded to personal but really it applied to all of us but in a personal way.as to give thought. I will try to explain God willing. 

I would like to look at the word Christian. In the early days a Antioch it soke of a particular group known as followers of Christ. It was given to these followers by the people of Antioch who were not believers themselves.  The word just became a word that described them in particular. As the word spread it became the name for followers of Jesus Gospel. Not by the believers themselves but by the people through out Rome 

What does this meant to us today? A whole lot because today Christion has become a word that means almost anything, any denomination weather right or wrong. peculiar ideals and the down right falls. I pray there are those who know what I am talking about. The word Christian is just an umbrella word that no longer associates to what it once did. So now the question will the lord fined faith upon the earth?

 

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

 So now the question will the lord fined faith upon the earth?

 

Luke: 18:7,8

⁷ And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

⁸ I tell you that he will avenge them speedily.

Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

         ******** 

Hello Mike Mclees, 

I posted the scriptures for clarification and to bring something to your attention.

In your post you wrote:   

 The question is:

"will the Lord fine faith upon the earth?" 

I am wondering if you are reading the scriptures in Luke 18:7, and 8 which asks 

"when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

I am wondering if you are are having some other scriptures in your mind and if you do can you please post them? 

because the question;

"will the Lord find faith upon the earth" it has nothing to do with the context of Luke 18:7, and 8. 

If we did not know that Jesus had made these statements a reader should come to understand that the person who is speaking is asking the people in the context that the Son of man has not come to earth yet. 

Because he said:

"however", "when the Son of man cometh shall he find faith on the earth". 

Isolating this verse from the context it sounds that the Son of Man has not come yet on the earth. 

Because he asks: not will, but Shall the Son of man find faith on he comes on the earth?  The question is asked as if the Son of man has not come yet on the earth.

Do you have something to say as to why you did not follow the key words in verse 8? because this was said by Jesus before the Cross and his resurrection and ascension and before the Heavenly Father glorified him and made him Lord. 

As Stephen said: the Jesus you crucified God has made him Lord...when he shaw Jesus sited on God's righthand on the Heavenly Throne. 

And the question in verse 7, who are those people the elect God avenged in verse seven, who cry day and night? 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[R. Hartono]

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

Please don't make stuff up, and think it intelligent or something in which anyone would have any interest. How can Jesus see building that don't exist with or without oil? Why is the "without oil" relevant to this op? This op isn't asking if Jesus will find folks without faith; it's asking if he will find people with faith? Why are you belaboring the exact opposite of this op, and do ing so in a manner that contradicts your own posts? 

There are no buildings. Exactly!
Jesus saw the buildings that don't exist.

Jesus surely saw Foolish virgins without OIL playing around in church buildings. Why is it impossible ?

[biblelesson]

52 minutes ago, Josheb said:

8 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Jesus surely saw Foolish virgins without OIL playing around in church buildings. Why is it impossible ?

 

 

52 minutes ago, Josheb said:

There are no church buildings in the new testament. In other words, what you're doing is adding extra-biblical content to scripture and using it to interpret God's word. And off-topically, to boot. 

This is a good topic to study, because the seven churches in Revelation 1:20, Revelation 2:1-29, Revelation 3:1-22 shows Jesus is giving certain warnings to the churches.  There are behaviors that Jesus is warning these churches about, and warns them that they must repent.

Although these churches which received the gospel message during their time, that gospel message has spread throughout the world, over the centuries, and into the churches today.  This is where you find Christians today, in churches, and Christian groups.  Some Christians have gotten themselves involved in false worship without knowing it and hopefully will be lead out.  I know I did, and when God revealed to me what was going, I quickly repented.  It was a lack of understanding on my part.  I did not do it purposely.  Nonetheless, the warning still stands and Jesus will not overlook it when He returns unless we repent.   

 

So, I do think the five foolish virgins and five wise virgins are being identified in the churches in Revelation also. If you take Matthew 25:13, "Watch therefore; for ye know neither the day or the hour wherein the Son of man cometh, it's the same warning in Revelation where the churches are spoken about, Revelation 3:3, "Remember therefore how thou has received and heard, and hold fast and repent.  If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come up on thee."  

Believers are the ten virgins, and are the churches, and we are to watch.  The warning "watch therefore" is also in other parables, for example, Matthew 24:42-44.  When Jesus comes, not only is He coming as the bridegroom, He is also coming as the Judge.   

Edited August 3, 2021 by biblelesson

[Mike Mclees]

When Paul said I am the cheifest of sinners I feel also as he . Still the Lord has blessed me with understanding of certain things. The question who are the ones of faith? I noticed that one of my comments was cut. maybe it sounded to personal but really it applied to all of us but in a personal way.as to give thought. I will try to explain, God willing. 

I would like to look at the word Christian. In the early days a Antioch it spoke of a particular group known as followers of Christ.  This name  was given to these followers by the people of Antioch who were not believers themselves.  The word just became a word that described them in particular. As the word spread it became the name for followers of Jesus Gospel and  Not by the believers themselves but by the people through out Rome 

What does this mean to us today? A whole lot because today Christian has become a world that means almost anything, any denomination weather right or wrong. peculiar ideals and doctrines and the down right falls. I pray there are those who know what I am talking about. The word Christian is just an umbrella word today that no longer associates to what it once did. So now the question will the lord fined faith upon the earth? There was not to be a thousand different denominations inventing there own interpretations. This came about from the reformation. The RCC converted the church to a religious political order. So where do we find true faith on the earth? It only  comes from the Holy Spirit and the word of God.

God bless

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Mike Mclees

[biblelesson]

6 minutes ago, Josheb said:

The salient point relative to my exchange with Hartono is that the use of the word "church" or "churches" is NOT about buildings. Ever. As far as the op goes (let us not forget the actual topic we are supposed to be discussing) the letters to the seven churches implicitly assume some degree of already-existing faith and faithfulness. Otherwise, the seven letters would be meaningless. In other words, the "seven letters" are in a very real sense letters to the faithful about faithfulness and the risk of faithlessness hoping for faithfulness and expecting it...... lest consequences be suffered as a consequence of the lack. And if the letters are taken as letters given simultaneously to the various churches or congregations then the fact that some are commended and some are not necessarily proves Jesus will in fact find faith when he returns. Perhaps not with all but definitely with some or many. 

We should also understand "anything not done in faith is sin" (Rom. 14:). Paul says that pertaining to weakness and diet and special days and judging one another but the underlying principle is universal: Anything not done in faith is sin. Therefore if Jesus returned to find an utter lack of faith (as some wrongly imagine) then that would mean the church, the ecclesia, is sinful. The body of Christ is sinful. 

There is a sense in which that is true but it is a past-state condition; we were all once sinful sinners BUT we have ALL also been washed clean by the shed blood of Christ and are being constantly washed (sanctified) by the Holy Spirit, our routine practice of confession and repentance, and the effects of persistent obedience. 

Or we are not.  

So if the body of Christ is deemed faithless that comes into conflict with many other scriptures, such as the faithfulness of Christ to his own body, and ends up compromising our ecclesiology. And that may be the impetus behind the op because there is a specific theology that at its very core claims the Church is corrupt (and they are not). This particular theology conflates soteriology, ecclesiology, and eschatology to argue the body of Christ is corrupt and they are not and as a consequence those who remain faithful must further separated from the world and have nothing to do with it beyond evangelism and wait patiently as the body of Christ becomes increasingly weaker and weaker, increasingly less and less influential in the world despite having all power and authority of Christ to change the world, and in the end will be in need of removal from the earth lest we suffer the consequences of our own impotence and inaction. 

In other words, the weak-church theology might end up being he very theology that brings about its own disdain in self-fulfillment.  

 

Aside from the crazy mess, the body of Christ cannot and will not be faithless to its head, cornerstone, foundation and capstone and when Jesus return he will in fact necesarily find faith among those who are necessarily saved by grace through faith. 

I'm lost.  I don't know what your point is as it relates to scripture.   I don't know what you are saying.  

 

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

Have you read the op? Have you read through the thread? 

If not then please do so. The op asks one very specific question and that is the question most of us are answering. The other poster took a portion of something I said and attempted to use it to introduce an unrelated agenda into the conversation (virgins/buildings without oil/faith), and I'm not having anything to do with the attempt. Everything I've posted should be understood within the context of the op's single inquiry, 

 

Will the Lord find faith upon the earth when he returns?

 

My answer, and as far as I can tell the answer of most others is overwhelmingly in the affirmative. Jesus will find faith (and faithful faithfulness) when he returns.

There is only one answer to this question. 

Yes the Lord will find faith in him. 

The question implies faith in him in Jesus Christ. He will find faith in him as the Redeemer in all the earth.

The OP is not inquiring about faith in God no he is not. 

The OP is asking this question within a very narrow window. 

When he says the Lord he has Jesus Christ in the thoughts of his mind. 

Faith in God of course is included in the question because we believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

The OP does not have a scripture reference for study and for relating to the context even in the context to find out if someone from the new testament writers has said that.

Jesus has left the earth and returned more than once, actually it was  only once when the Light of the world did not light the world and that is when after his death Jesus went in the heart of the earth. 

The light of the world did not shine on the earth only once and that lasted three days.

But that it dies not mean that the light of the world went out, no it did not go out because the LIGHT OF THE WORLD when did not give his light on the earth he have his light to another place where had never shine in that place before.  

When he came back after three days he found people believing in God but he did not find anyone who believe in him.

Jesus Christ knew that will happen before it happened. This is the only time from the people who believed in him none of them to continue to believe in him as the Christ the Saviour of the world and this is because they were raised to believe that the Christ of God will be tested but he will never die, that he will live forever without dieing first. 

Could that be what Jesus said in Mathew 18:7 and 8. And that he did not find anyone waiting for him to come back on the earth. Not even his mother, not Peter, no John no James as some of them had left Jerusalem and went back to their towns doing what were doing before they met Jesus and that is fishing because they were fishermen by trade. 

Even Mary Magdalene who with Mary the mother of Jesus were on their way to prepare the body of Jesus for burial when Jesus met them close to the tomb where they had put him. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[R. Hartono]

9 hours ago, Josheb said:

There are no church buildings in the new testament. In other words, what you're doing is adding extra-biblical content to scripture and using it to interpret God's word. And off-topically, to boot. 

The remainings of some of seven   churches of Revelation has been discovered  in Turkey. 

I Shud post a picture if hv the time later so u may learn.