Is belief in the Trinity essential to one's Salvat

[Ovedya]

Civil discourse.

[Trust & Obey]

halifax, to have a different understanding of the relationship of the Son to the Father, while recongnizing the deity of both, does not equate to "another Jesus" or "false Christ."

Tell me, in your little finite are you sure you understand and comprehend everything there is to understand about the Godhead?

If not... does that mean you may have some things wrong?

[halifaxchristian]

halifax, to have a different understanding of the relationship of the Son to the Father, while recongnizing the deity of both, does not equate to "another Jesus" or "false Christ."

Tell me, in your little finite are you sure you understand and comprehend everything there is to understand about the Godhead?

If not... does that mean you may have some things wrong?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My debate was focused towards those who deny the Deity of Christ...like our friend Phil121. But....yes....I agree with you.

[SpiritualSon]

re: Is belief in the Trinity essential to one's Salvation?

Snow

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Charity is more important than the belief in the Trinity.

[SpiritualSon]

re: Is belief in the Trinity essential to one's Salvation?

Snow

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Charity is more important than the belief in the Trinity.

1Cor.13:1-13

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Good works, done in the name of Jesus Christ, is charity in action, and is essential for salvation.

Harry

Member of the New Church (Swedenborg)

[halifaxchristian]

re: Is belief in the Trinity essential to one's Salvation?

Snow

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Charity is more important than the belief in the Trinity.

1Cor.13:1-13

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Good works, done in the name of Jesus Christ, is charity in action, and is essential for salvation.

Harry

Member of the New Church (Swedenborg)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We are saved by FAITH...that worketh by LOVE...and sealed by the Spirit on the Day of Salvation. We are not saved by FAITH...that worketh by KNOWLEDGE...as Hebrews and 2 Peter confirm. We are not saved by any part of our own works...and if anyone believes that...that person is not saved.

We must trust in Christ...and Him only for salvation.

[mrs]

what a lovely poem!

[Brother Chad]

re: Is belief in the Trinity essential to one's Salvation?

Snow

No, in fact to get it right, I believe you have to see the trinity for what it is: A man-made doctrine that was not endorsed or taught by the disciples of Jesus. There are many views to the trinity and it is very confusing for most to talk about because it is not scripturally based. God has shown through His Word that He is one. (Galatians 3:20) He never says 3 in 1. This is as simple as it gets:

God is the Father of creation. God manifested Himself in flesh. (I Timothy 3:16) The Holy Spirit is God in us. Never does God have to be one or the other. They are all manifestations or roles of the one true God. Remember too, that there is only one God, and one mediator between GOD and man, the man Jesus Christ. When you start to show three "persons" in the Godhead, you eventually will lead to polytheism. Most of the scriptures used by trinitarians actually lead to binitarianism with the Holy Ghost being a sub-member of the three.

[Aviator227]

I don't see how either of those verses answer the question...

The apostles were told to baptise in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; Jesus doesn't say "but it only works if you believe that these are three persons but one God".

The doctrine of the Trinity wasn't even established until a couple of centuries after the apostles, because it had never been clarified. It isn't something clearly laid out anywhere in scripture.

It's a doctrine that appears to defy human logic - how can one be three? I think that when you dig deeper it does start to make more sense but I don't think anyone who struggles to understand or believe it is excluded from the Kingdom of God just because a particular switch isn't flipped in their brain.

All three divine persons definitely play an essential part in a person's salvation. I don't think that holding the "correct" beliefs about their nature and union does though.

It works like this, If Jesus is not God, but just a man, he would have sinned, like the rest of mankind. Being a sinner, he would not be heaven's perfect lamb, that is not a worthy sacrifice to pay the price of man-kinds sin. So without Jesus as God, there is no salvation.

Without the Holy Spirit, there is no change after salvation (the change is often referred to as a person's sanctification), where there character is changed and they are molded to conform to the image of christ. The Holy Spirit makes this possible.

[EricH]

re: Is belief in the Trinity essential to one's Salvation?

Snow

No, in fact to get it right, I believe you have to see the trinity for what it is: A man-made doctrine that was not endorsed or taught by the disciples of Jesus. There are many views to the trinity and it is very confusing for most to talk about because it is not scripturally based. God has shown through His Word that He is one. (Galatians 3:20) He never says 3 in 1. This is as simple as it gets:

God is the Father of creation. God manifested Himself in flesh. (I Timothy 3:16) The Holy Spirit is God in us. Never does God have to be one or the other. They are all manifestations or roles of the one true God. Remember too, that there is only one God, and one mediator between GOD and man, the man Jesus Christ. When you start to show three "persons" in the Godhead, you eventually will lead to polytheism. Most of the scriptures used by trinitarians actually lead to binitarianism with the Holy Ghost being a sub-member of the three.

This is actually an unbiblical view of the relationships within the members of the God-head. It is in a sense a form of modalism. Modalism basically teaches that the members of the Trinity were God appearing in different modes (or expressions of His personality)

The problem with this view is that it basically ignores passages where members of the God-head are described as having different personalities and interacting with each other.