An Importance of Faithfulness to a Local Church

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, Alive said:

 

So then--how do we reconcile these points in a practical manner?

We could start by dealing with the following truths:

Ephesians 4:14
As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;

1 Timothy 1:18-20
This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

2 Timothy 2:16-18
But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.

Titus 1:10-11
For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.

Hebrews 13:9
Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited.

2 Peter 3:17
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

Romans 16:17-18
Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting.

1 Timothy 1:3-4
As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.

Galatians 1:8-9
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

Instead of allowing every thought of man to be introduced as equivalent to divine utterance. Because the ones called by His name refuse to deal with this they have become weak.

[Diaste]

20 hours ago, Alive said:

Some problems have been outlined. some agreements and some perhaps disagreements. can we work toward solutions?

"As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. ~ 1 Timothy 1:3-5

As long as the standard is the truth of the Word and not the doctrine of the local church. Too often a false teacher is defined as one who stands against the doctrine of the local church but speaks the truth in the Spirit. 

Our unity is in the Spirit by faith not unity in brick and mortar. Our God is a living God and is in the heart of the believer as we as individuals are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. The Temples gather together, not believers gathering in a temple. This is huge distinction lost in the modern contemporary religion of Christianity. 

 

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

See

Where do we draw the line? At the vision and goal of the church as a whole. 

We are not, or should not be children to take offense when things don't suit us. The church can you provide you  the garden plot, but whether you plant crops or weeds is entirely up to you.

But what you have said has proven my point. There are no perfect people, so there are no perfect churches. No matter how good your intentions are , other people are not going to share them

 A Church is made up of

• The faithful
• The flake
• The peaceful
• The dramatic
• The servant
• The demanding
• The overcomer
• The victim
• The hard worker
• The slacker
• The stoic
• The complainer
• The longsufferer
• The whiner
• The quiet one
• The loud one
• The generous one
• The greedy one
• The wild one
• The staid one
• The scholar
• The unlearned
• the humble
• the proud
• The sheep
• The goats
• the wolves

This is what God has to but together to make one church. There is nothing unify them but the vision of the church.  

So what do we do?  

We overlook each other's weakness, we do not take offense at the weaknesses of others, and if the attitude of the church becomes Toxic.....we leave and find another...realizing that it will not be perfect either.

There will always be a "Sister Bertha Better Than You" or a "Bombacious Bob"  but what effect you let them have on you....is up to you.

 

 

Unity of the faith is what we are called to attain. That is of the Spirit and by our Lord Jesus Christ and cuts across all personalities and demeanors. 

No matter how the software is configured it still is subject to the Master Programmer and should be following the commands given it. Too many viruses allowed in have resulted in rogue programs run amok in the mainframe. 

Modern Christianity is too weak to excise it's own diseases. 

[Ray12614]

21 minutes ago, Diaste said:

"As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. ~ 1 Timothy 1:3-5

As long as the standard is the truth of the Word and not the doctrine of the local church. Too often a false teacher is defined as one who stands against the doctrine of the local church but speaks the truth in the Spirit. 

Our unity is in the Spirit by faith not unity in brick and mortar. Our God is a living God and is in the heart of the believer as we as individuals are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. The Temples gather together, not believers gathering in a temple. This is huge distinction lost in the modern contemporary religion of Christianity. 

 

Ok. point taken regarding the universal Kingdom/church. BUT

 . . . without assembling together . . . 

how do we obey biblical commands for us to exhort each other, show love towards each other, teach each other, Pray for each other, Help each other, meet needs of poor believers who are 'among us', edify each other, lay hands on those among us who are sick, rejoice with each other?  How do the Holy Spirit gifts manifest themselves in the church body assembly (Corinthians) ??? What about not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together as is the manner of some? Was that just a suggestion, and not an command?

I see an disconnect in your biblical logic unless you can tell me how to do the above without physically assembling together .  .  . 

Ray . .   

 

[Diaste]

39 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

Ok. point taken regarding the universal Kingdom/church. BUT

 . . . without assembling together . . . 

how do we obey biblical commands for us to exhort each other, show love towards each other, teach each other, Pray for each other, Help each other, meet needs of poor believers who are 'among us', edify each other, lay hands on those among us who are sick, rejoice with each other?  How do the Holy Spirit gifts manifest themselves in the church body assembly (Corinthians) ??? What about not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together as is the manner of some? Was that just a suggestion, and not an command?

I see an disconnect in your biblical logic unless you can tell me how to do the above without physically assembling together .  .  . 

Ray . .   

 

I don't know how long I have been here, 5-6 years? Lots of conversations with almost exclusively believers. I would suppose the range is throughout all walks of life, professions, education, financial status, epistemologies, etc., etc.

Are you saying that every word I have said on this subject and many others to many people have all been worthless and a waste of time? So if I am led where I am led it's meaningless unless it's under the auspices of a local church? How does my status negate the above scripture of truth you pointed out? Do you assume I have no face to face with believers ever? 

Do you further assume love is only shown in the 'church'? I cannot help those in need unless it's brick and mortar approved? When have I said no one should gather together? This whole OP is about the 'faithfulness to a local church'. I am the church. You are the church. The church is not a building.

I find the premise of the OP way off base. We are faithful to the Lord and our God in the unity of the spirit. I don't deny there is merit in gathering. But where two or three are gathered in His name is where He is. 

So what are we doing here? Is this not a great gathering of people in the Spirit? Can we deny this site is not of the Spirit? Do we not talk about spiritual things in the name of Jesus here? A great many have been helped through Worthy and none can deny this. But I suppose that's just the approved kind of spiritual growth and it's not real spirituality when people disagree.

At the very foundation is the Word. It's a book. Jesus doesn't visit you in a face to face to expound. Our conscience, behavior, growth, relationships, perceptions, destiny and all the promises to which we cling are in a book. In words. Written. 

I can repeat those same words and they have the same weight whether spoken or written. 

[Diaste]

@pinacled what did I say you don't agree with?

[Diaste]

9 minutes ago, Diaste said:

What about not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together as is the manner of some? Was that just a suggestion, and not an command?

A sampling:

New International Version
For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

New Living Translation
For where two or three gather together as my followers, I am there among them.”

English Standard Version
For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

Berean Study Bible
For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.”

Berean Literal Bible
For where two or three are gathered together unto My name, there am I in their midst."

King James Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

New King James Version
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”
 

It's interesting this is seemingly ignored. I don't forsake gathering.

 

 

 

[Kelly2363]

3 minutes ago, Diaste said:

So what are we doing here? Is this not a great gathering of people in the Spirit? Can we deny this site is not of the Spirit? Do we not talk about spiritual things in the name of Jesus here? A great many have been helped through Worthy and none can deny this. But I suppose that's just the approved kind of spiritual growth and it's not real spirituality when people disagree.

 

20 minutes ago, Diaste said:

A sampling:

New International Version
For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

New Living Translation
For where two or three gather together as my followers, I am there among them.”

English Standard Version
For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

Berean Study Bible
For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.”

Berean Literal Bible
For where two or three are gathered together unto My name, there am I in their midst."

King James Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

New King James Version
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”
 

It's interesting this is seemingly ignored. I don't forsake gathering.

 

 

 

 

On a forum or in a local church? This OP is about the local church not the forum.

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Kelly2363 said:

 

 

On a forum or in a local church? This OP is about the local church not the forum.

Missed the point. Thanks for contributing. 

[Kelly2363]

8 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Missed the point. Thanks for contributing. 

 

Forums are for making points - the local church is for growth. I missed nothing.