Get Ready For The Tribulation There Isn't a Pre-Rapture

[truecrosstrueshield]

When Jesus came the 1st time it was the star of Bethlehem a sign in the heaven. Jesus will return a 2nd time a signs again in heaven. The sun, moon, and the stars etc described in Matt. 24 and others parts of the bible. He'll return only a 2nd time at the end of those days on the last 7th trumpet only. That's the only trumpet mentioned to announce Jesus' return. .

Concerning the harvest this. Matt. 24:23-35 32 “Now learnthis parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that [e]it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Jesus in this parable of the fig tree is talking about 1 harvest. He said when summer is near you know the fig tree is ripe. Jesus only said summer. Not any other part of the year. So there can't be in this parable a 2nd one.

This also. It's important to know Matthew 13: 24-30 24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ” That's why John the Baptist said about Jesus this. Matt.3:12 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

 

So you see Jesus owns the field. He sent out harvesters the angels to gather both wheat and tares in the field. Not only is the just gathered unto Christ. Even the people who rebelled against God shall also be gathered separated to be judged by God. . Like those who took the mark for example . .Even those from the grave both Gods people and the unjust will be called from the grave. Some to glory. Others to shame. This is a true harvest. If anyone says only gather the wheat and leave the tares behind that's not a true harvest. If he leaves the tares there how can he plant new crops? Most likely not. The weeds would multiply or taking the new crops. So he needs to rid of the tares as well as the wheat. .

During the trib these aren't tribulation saints left behind. There's no such bible word pre trib saints. These are the saints that were saints before the trib that are now going into it and also throughout history. Plus even new believers that'll be formed during those terrible days.

Matt.24:22 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened. Not only Jews since we aren't to divide them any longer. In John 10:16 Jesus says 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Don't separate this into 2 people Jews and Gentiles. Place them in one fold like Jesus did. Don't desperate these events and not adding new trumpets. . This all counts in 1 day. Called the Day of the Lord. Pray unto God you and all your friends and family and even others to have hope for this day.

Ok forward to this blessed hope everlasting salvation for those who were true and faithful to him now and always, before and even during any trial good or not so good. . Then the Lord shall give you and us only if we listen and continue to follow the way of the Lord God.

[Dennis1209]

On 9/1/2021 at 8:58 PM, The Light said:

A little common sense should tell you that there is a reason that the Pope pushes the "alien agenda". There will be a pretribulation rapture and aliens will be the excuse for all the missing people.

For many years I wondered, how on earth could the Rapture be logically, rationally explained away and accepted by the masses? Logically thinking; there are many Christians in critical occupations; military generals, surgeons, nuclear reactor operators, commercial and private pilots, bus drivers, Christians driving cars and operating things prone to accidents when abandoned, etc. 

The sudden removal of millions of people from what they are doing, would have to cause mayhem and an unprecedented catastrophe globally. 

Previously, the only logical explanation I could deduce, was an EMP attack, CME or severe solar flare; knocking out all communications. Therefore, no one would know what happened beyond their local area? 

Over the last decade of observation and study, I've come to the conclusion ET will be involved one way or the other. Satan is the father of lies and deception, and comes to destroy and kill. I'll omit Fatima and all the Mary aberrations that are globally deceiving, and increasing. 

For decades now, we have become conditioned to the existence of UFOs and ET. The tens of thousands of books; movies, documentaries, cartoons; comic books; super-hero's; SETI; History channel ancient aliens and the goof ball with wild hair; SETI; evolution of space aliens; Pope Francis obsession baptizing ET; I could go on and on.

Ten of millions have witnessed legitimate unexplained aerial phenomena; and video footage provides proof positive. It is no longer conspiracy theory by kooks; the conspiracy was the government covering it up and lying. They can no longer hide nor deny the facts; thus, finally some 'soft disclosure'. 

Prelimary-Assessment-UAP-20210625.pdf (dni.gov) 

Tens of millions of dollars spent, and decades of investigation and research [Blue Book and other classified investigations] and this report is the best they can come up with? We don't know?

You would assume the best and brightest minds in their fields would be investigating this phenomenon, not idiots, unless they are still intentionally hiding facts. Reading the report, one thing is blatantly obvious and screams out for an answer. Why is the spiritual and dimensional realm obviously excluded?

With hindsight, what we are witnessing today, what is now being softly disclosed, and what the world's largest religious leader is babbling... I've come to a suspicion, "phone home." 

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

For many years I wondered, how on earth could the Rapture be logically, rationally explained away and accepted by the masses? Logically thinking; there are many Christians in critical occupations; military generals, surgeons, nuclear reactor operators, commercial and private pilots, bus drivers, Christians driving cars and operating things prone to accidents when abandoned, etc. 

The sudden removal of millions of people from what they are doing, would have to cause mayhem and an unprecedented catastrophe globally. 

Previously, the only logical explanation I could deduce, was an EMP attack, CME or severe solar flare; knocking out all communications. Therefore, no one would know what happened beyond their local area? 

Over the last decade of observation and study, I've come to the conclusion ET will be involved one way or the other. Satan is the father of lies and deception, and comes to destroy and kill. I'll omit Fatima and all the Mary aberrations that are globally deceiving, and increasing. 

For decades now, we have become conditioned to the existence of UFOs and ET. The tens of thousands of books; movies, documentaries, cartoons; comic books; super-hero's; SETI; History channel ancient aliens and the goof ball with wild hair; SETI; evolution of space aliens; Pope Francis obsession baptizing ET; I could go on and on.

Ten of millions have witnessed legitimate unexplained aerial phenomena; and video footage provides proof positive. It is no longer conspiracy theory by kooks; the conspiracy was the government covering it up and lying. They can no longer hide nor deny the facts; thus, finally some 'soft disclosure'. 

Prelimary-Assessment-UAP-20210625.pdf (dni.gov) 

Tens of millions of dollars spent, and decades of investigation and research [Blue Book and other classified investigations] and this report is the best they can come up with? We don't know?

You would assume the best and brightest minds in their fields would be investigating this phenomenon, not idiots, unless they are still intentionally hiding facts. Reading the report, one thing is blatantly obvious and screams out for an answer. Why is the spiritual and dimensional realm obviously excluded?

With hindsight, what we are witnessing today, what is now being softly disclosed, and what the world's largest religious leader is babbling... I've come to a suspicion, "phone home." 

There are no aliens. It's a a load of pukey to explain away the rapture. When the time comes there will be plenty of UFO's for the masses to see. There will also be plenty of holograms that will convince the world that aliens are real. On a side note, there will also be angels that come. They are the stars of heaven

[The Light]

6 hours ago, biblelesson said:

We cannot determine this based on a Jewish Rabbi because the Law of Moses ended when Jesus died on the Cross. Therefore, the Feast of Trumpets ended also based on all of the requirements instituted by the Levi Priesthood that God put in place to administer all feast and sacrifices in the temple.  When Jesus died, the vail ripped, then the Levi Priesthood ended for temple practices administered by the Levitical Priests.  There are no more practices under the Moses Law. We are under the New Covenant in Jesus Christ.

 

Come on man. That has absolutely nothing to do with whether a Jewish Rabbi knows what the last trump is. A Jewish Rabbi will tell you that the last trump is blown on the feast of trumpets and is the last of a hundred trumpet blasts. And to go further, the Jews continue to celebrate the feasts as God has commanded.

6 hours ago, biblelesson said:

We must follow the bible:
 

Who is doing the talking in 1 Corinthians 15:52?  Apostle Paul is talking to the Corinthians and he is telling them "we shall be change" at the last trump if we are alive when Christ returns; so he's talking about the 7th trumpet in Revelation 11:15.  He is saying the dead will rise first, then those that are alive will be changed. 

I already explained to you that the 1 Cor 15 last trump cannot be the 7th trumpet in revelation as the unrighteous are not given an incorruptible body and eternal life. The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets as any Rabbi will tell you.

6 hours ago, biblelesson said:

This is the same as 1 Thessalonians 4:16, "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."  Again the 7th trumpet.

No. The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets and the trump of God is the voice of God. See Rev 1, Exo 19

6 hours ago, biblelesson said:

Both 1 Corinthians 15:52, and 1 Thessalonians 4:16 are talking about the first resurrection: those who are blessed and those who the second death have no power over, Revelation 20:6.  These are those who will reign with Christ in the thousand years, Revelation 20:4

1 Cor 15 is talking the gathering from heaven and earth as it occurs when the gathering occurs just prior to the wrath of God. 1 Thes 4 is talking about the secret pretribulation rapture of the Church.

6 hours ago, biblelesson said:

You said: It is impossible for the events of the 7th trumpet to be the same events of the 6th seal. The 7th trumpet cannot even happen until AFTER the 7TH SEAL is opened."  You have not provide any biblical basis for your statement.

Well here:

Rev 8

8 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

 

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

The 7 trumpets can't sound until the 7th seal is opened...just as can be seen in Rev 8. So the events of the 6th seal cannot be the events of the 7th trumpet.

6 hours ago, biblelesson said:

However, what you might not be able to see is the seals, trumpets, and vials are providing different views with different things taking place for the same event, the tribulation, and each seals, trumpets, and vials, are showing their own version of events from beginning to end.  For example if you think about Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.  The account of Jesus was told by four of Jesus' disciples.  And some of the events were missing, while others added more information that you don't see throughout all gospels.  This is what's happening with the seals, trumpets, and vials.  It's the same timeframe, the tribulation period, but told in different ways with more or less events taking place.

Well you are partially correct. Yes, this is almost right: the seals, trumpets, and vials are providing different views with different things taking place for the same event

Actually it goes like this. The seasl are opened in order and the 1st 5 seals show us what happens during the tribulation. The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus. When the 7th seal is opened, the wrath of God begins. The wrath of God ends at the 7th trumpet. Armageddon has happened, and Christ has returned and set up his kingdom on the earth. Then Rev 13 starts with another view of what happens during the seals and the vials are another view of what happens during the trumpets. And the wrath of God is over at the 7th vial.

6 hours ago, biblelesson said:

You said, "The unrighteous dead DO NOT put on incorruption and are not given eternal life. Therefore the last trump is NOT the 7th trumpet."  This is absolutely not true.  The last trump happens before Revelation 20:11-22, which talks about a great white throne, and those the dead who stood before God.  Those who were not part of the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4, are those who Revelation 20:5 were talking about, "But the rest of the dead lived not again until..."  Lived not again until means they will put on incorruption at the appointed time, after the thousand years. Meaning they will not posses a fleshly body, but they will posses a spiritual body, and those not found worthy will be throne into the lake of fire forever.  Revelation 20:15, "And those not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." 
 

As I said "The unrighteous dead DO NOT put on incorruption and are not given eternal life. Therefore the last trump is NOT the 7th trumpet." Simple as it can get. It is impossible for the last trump to be the 7th trumpet.

The last trump occurs at the 6th seal just before the wrath of God. The gathering from heaven and earth occurs at the last trump. See the coming of Jesus that occur is Matt 24. It is the same coming of Jesus at the 6th seal.

We can prove this by 2 thes 2

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

We see the coming Jesus, which results in the gathering from heaven and earth and this is prior to the day of Christ, or the Day of the Lord.

Edited September 4, 2021 by The Light

[biblelesson]

11 hours ago, The Light said:

Let's just end ALL talk that the last trump in 1 Corinthians 15 is the 7th trumpet blown by an angel.

At the 7th trumpet it is the time for the dead to be judged.

Rev 11

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

When you read what happens at the last trump you don't see judgment, you see corruption putting on incorruption and mortal putting immortality. 

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The unrighteous DO NOT PUT ON INCORRUPTION. They do not receive eternal life. Therefore, it is impossible for the "last trump" to be the 7th trumpet.

You’re stuck on the word incorruption and you think it means eternal life only for those saved. But the word incorruption simply means no longer flesh. All flesh will be changed incorruptible. Our fleshly body is what’s corruptible. Every human being will be changed to a spiritual body once resurrected. The righteous to eternal life with Christ and the unrighteousness to eternal hell without Christ. John 5:28-29.
But both will have put on incorruption because they will not be flesh any longer. That’s the meaning of incorruptible. It’s not talking about the state of being saved or unsaved. It’s talking about the state of the body and there being no more death, which is because a spirit cannot die. 
 

Jesus conquered death. Remember the verse, “oh death where is thy sting?” Jesus throws death into the lake of fire, which means no one will ever die again once changed. The righteous and the unrighteousness. That’s what the corruptible will put on incorruptible means! It’s a Chang in the physical makeup of the body! 

John 5:28-29. 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by biblelesson

[Diaste]

14 hours ago, The Light said:

Let's just end ALL talk that the last trump in 1 Corinthians 15 is the 7th trumpet blown by an angel.

At the 7th trumpet it is the time for the dead to be judged.

Rev 11

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

When you read what happens at the last trump you don't see judgment, you see corruption putting on incorruption and mortal putting immortality. 

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The unrighteous DO NOT PUT ON INCORRUPTION. They do not receive eternal life. Therefore, it is impossible for the "last trump" to be the 7th trumpet.

Rev 11

18 And the nations were angry,

and thy wrath is come,

and the time of the dead, that they should be judged,

and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets,

and to the saints,

and them that fear thy name, small and great;

and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

All of the bold parts are now going to happen. So you have to explain away the rewards to the prophets, the saints and those in reverent awe that comes at the 7th trump.

It's not just the death and destruction and judging the dead under the banner of the 7th trump, it's rewards to God's people as well.

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, The Light said:

Not sure I understand why you think there is a gap.

I do not. It's manufactured all the same.

15 hours ago, The Light said:

I copied this from another site. I don't agree with everything on the site but their description of the last trump is correct.

At sundown, 100 trumpet (shofar) staccato blasts will be blown and the last blast is very long and distinct from all the others previously. It is called the LAST TRUMPET.

It's Talmudic. To me it carries no weight.

[Diaste]

20 hours ago, The Light said:

Baloney. The reason that I believe in two raptures is because we can see two raptures in scripture. If you accepted what the Word said instead of attempting to explain why the Word of God is can't mean what it says, you would finally get somewhere.

Let me guess, 144,000 represents the Church instead of what the Word says, 12,000 from each tribe. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but the theme is always the same, the Word can't mean what it says.

I feel this is a lot of assumption. I rarely mention the 144k as I'm unsure where they fit in. It's not the church in toto but certainly a sanctified group within the whole of the congregation. We don't see much about them other than identity(Jewish male virgins from the 12 tribes) and that they follow Jesus wherever He goes and they can sing a special song. We don't know how or when they get to heaven, Mt. Zion and next to Jesus.

We do know they are first fruits. Rev 14:4 It seems if they are first fruits they go first. Isn't your position they are raptured after GT?

I fully believe The Word says what He means and means what He says, allowing for literary forms of course. That means I assiduously avoid gap filling, personal interpretation, adding or subtracting and apply fact based logical inference.

When I don't know I don't know and I have said so many times. When He speaks I do my best to listen, not interpret.

That being said in all the pretrib references I never see timing, just the fact of the event. I do see the same timing you do in Matt 24.

Now why would we have clear timing there but nothing for the pretrib position?  

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, The Light said:

You are merely denying the truth. Happens all the time. The Word says that we can escape ALL THESE THINGS. The Word says we can STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN.

Luke 21

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

You are not standing before the Son of Man here on earth. You are before the throne.

You can play your word games all you want, but that doesn't change the truth. I showed you WHY it is a personal flight to stand before the Son of Man. That's because the verse is in the singular. YE. You. It's singular.

Not word games. Words have meaning and the meanings are critical to understanding. Applying a definition of one word to another is the game.

[Dennis1209]

13 hours ago, The Light said:

There are no aliens. It's a a load of pukey to explain away the rapture. When the time comes there will be plenty of UFO's for the masses to see. There will also be plenty of holograms that will convince the world that aliens are real. On a side note, there will also be angels that come. They are the stars of heaven

I agree. Evidently, I must have been dancing around the subject? The phenomenon is real, there's no denial or conspiracy on that. But what is it?

There's war in all three heavens. Whatever we are seeing, could be a glimpse into the heavenly dimension. I personally think it is deceptive in nature, conditioning and leading up to an event or announcement. For a number of reasons, I believe it is supernatural and demonic in nature. It's been happening long before the existence of modern technology, so it rules that out. Our Lord is not in the deceiving business. So, if it's not extraterrestrials from outer space, advanced technology, or enemy nations; it has to be from the father of lies and deception I would think?