God did not teach us these things

[Starise]

20 minutes ago, Kelly2363 said:

 

To be clear then - I have stated precisely what the occult is and that Satanism is a separate thing. I have not talked in circles and so I don't receive the rebuke. You have absolutely no comprehension what the occult is and neither the central meaning of Satanism. But at least your comments afford another to take joy - and in that we are both rid of a needless argument. The book of Enoch is a blasphemous and occult gateway and should be thrown into the fire. 

Well we may agree on one thing here. The book of Enoch does concern the occult and I think the very origins of it. Where we part ways is I think it's useful information while you seem to think any associations with it are wrong for the Christian. The book of Enoch is NOT a book of spells or witchcraft. If it were I would be in strong agreement with you.

So far I haven't seen one shred of proof that would support your argument that Enoch is a gateway into the occult. The gateways are opened when people use spells and enchantments for that express purpose. I'll be waiting for that answer from a self described occult expert on the web who seems to think he is the only one who knows anything about it 

[Hopefully]

Hello everyone.

please keep in mind some here are new believers and Satanism should not be the focus here. I would like for this post to glorify God. 
 

 

 

[Hopefully]

My attempt was not to highlight evil so much but to let people in how evil grew here. 
 

I often wondered wow, who looked at the earth and figured out how to make metal just from seeing grass, stone and trees?  Now we know.

Now I know we’re astrology came from, makeup, as well as the other things listed. 

Now I can look at what we do with these things today and see why the knowledge of them was forbidden. I can also think about how this forbidden knowledge was pushed on us to lead us further from Christ. 
 

Evil is subtle and usually contains a dash of truth. It is good to study it to be able to recognize it and stay away from it.

[Marathoner]

1 Enoch (the Book of Enoch) was considered scripture for centuries after Christ ascended to sit with our Father upon His throne; it is still canonical for many Ethiopian Christians today. The issue for us isn't whether this book is scripture or not --- this has been debated longer than any of us here have been alive --- but rather, the nature of the narrative and content therein. 

I first encountered the Book of Enoch in my old friend's library and was astonished by prophecies of the Christ throughout the narrative (He is referred to as the Son of Man). As I have pointed out elsewhere on the forum, the earliest known manuscript of 1 Enoch predates the coming of Christ in the flesh by 300 years which makes these prophecies all the more astonishing. Therefore 1 Enoch is a prophetic book, overflowing with narratives of visions. I tested the spirits and found they are of God. 

Others have pointed out Enoch's presence in what we recognize as canonical scripture in the present day --- both the Tanakh and New Testament --- and analysis reveals over 300 parallels between 1 Enoch and the New Testament alone, testimony pointing to why 1 Enoch was considered scripture for centuries following the ascension of Christ. I have witnessed this myself and it is remarkable. From the Beatitudes to Paul's letters, these parallels are striking. 

Indeed, the New Testament explains the Law and Prophets (Tanakh) for as the author of 1 Enoch testifies, all things are revealed in the Son of Man; we find this expressed a number of times in the New Testament epistolary which came to us centuries after 1 Enoch.  

The Book of the Watchers is a chronicle of the Lord's commandment to Enoch: He sends Enoch to declare the judgment of the Most High against those sons of God who left their first estate, taking human wives for themselves (Genesis 6). In the manner of our brethren the prophets, Enoch faithfully renders the judgment of the Almighty against the fallen Watchers, announcing their crimes and declaring that no mercy was forthcoming for their sake. As the New Testament affirms, these fallen Watchers are bound in everlasting chains awaiting the day of the Lord. That is the day of their final judgment. 

1 Enoch contains no sorcerous nor idolatrous exhortations to the reader; I have no idea where such accusations come from. 1 Enoch is altogether an edifying read and I recommend it to one and all.  

[Kelly2363]

45 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

I first encountered the Book of Enoch in my old friend's library and was astonished by prophecies of the Christ throughout the narrative (He is referred to as the Son of Man). As I have pointed out elsewhere on the forum, the earliest known manuscript of 1 Enoch predates the coming of Christ in the flesh by 300 years which makes these prophecies all the more astonishing. Therefore 1 Enoch is a prophetic book, overflowing with narratives of visions. I tested the spirits and found they are of God. 

 

The earliest reference to Son of Man is found in Daniel. 

“I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. “And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one which will not be destroyed."

You say that you have tested the spirits of the book of Enoch - of visions - and found it to be a true prophecy and of God. By that means you make of yourself a prophet. Then receive the portion of a prophet to an end of judgement. 

 

[Alive]

About Enoch the book---what I know for certain is that those the Lord chose to give us the NT writings were familiar with it...they read it.

Was it to them like reading an Oliver Twist story?

[David1701]

Here's what Encyclopaedia Britannica has to say about 1st Enoch.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/First-Book-of-Enoch

There's a reason why it's been rejected as uninspired...

Edited September 4, 2021 by David1701
typo

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, Kelly2363 said:

 

The earliest reference to Son of Man is found in Daniel. 

“I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. “And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one which will not be destroyed."

You say that you have tested the spirits of the book of Enoch - of visions - and found it to be a true prophecy and of God. By that means you make of yourself a prophet. Then receive the portion of a prophet to an end of judgement. 

 

All of us are to test the spirits to see if they are God --- a scriptural exhortation --- so according to your rubric, all of us are prophets. Okay. 

Red herrings, brother. Have a blessed day.  

[Kelly2363]

2 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

All of us are to test the spirits to see if they are God --- a scriptural exhortation --- so according to your rubric, all of us are prophets. Okay. 

Red herrings, brother. Have a blessed day.  

Testing the spirits is one thing - declaring those spirits to be of God is another. I don't play with words @Marathoner. And those who make of words a rubric are either prophets or else sorcerers. So show me from the library of that man who's body is now buried by the tree where he used to pray - where he asserts the same confidence you have asserted of his library wherein you first read Enoch and tested the spirits so as to find it to be of God. Do that - and we can settle the matter can we not?

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

About Enoch the book---what I know for certain is that those the Lord chose to give us the NT writings were familiar with it...they read it.

Was it to them like reading an Oliver Twist story?

Possibly. A great deal of literature circulated among the faithful in the centuries following our Lord's ascension (I've read a hearty sample), the majority of which was "rejected" by the so-called reformers. As for 1 Enoch, it was quoted by Jude in his letter and considered scripture by Irenaeus and his contemporaries.

All of us need to be vigilant about accusation and rash judgment regarding one another. What happened above is an excellent example of this; some are given over to ceaseless argumentation and petty dispute, not content with stating their opinion and leaving it at that. When one steps forward and offers their opinion, another will respond with accusation because the position of the other doesn't agree with their own. It's an endless merry-go-round. 

It's a sad state of affairs, reflective of the discord consuming the nations of men on this earth. Is it not enough to speak for one's self? Why is it necessary to denounce others... what does this prove? A love of strife and an appetite for condemnation. 

I'm in agreement with @Hopefully: this topic ought to glorify God, not emphasize the flesh. 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Marathoner