Is trinity wrong?

[Justin Adams]

58 minutes ago, Andriya said:

Gor or a god? Jesus mentions a passage in the Old Testament when he says: "Is it not written in your Law: 'I have said you are gods'?" (John 10:34).

The verse Jesus refers to is Psalms 82:6, and Psalms 82:1 goes with this, too: "God presides in the divine assembly; He renders judgment among the gods".

Through Jesus, everything was created and if the divine assembly consists of gods, then the term god can be used for Jesus as well.

He used that in John to up the anti. He was proclaiming that it was HE that was Lord of the council. He passed sentence on the ones that were disobedient and responsible for the many pantheons: "You will all die like men and fall like any prince."

Read John very carefully to get the true meaning of that exchange.

[steve morrow]

THE  HOLY   SPIRIT 

 

JOHN 6:63  it is the spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing ---the words that I speak unto they are spirit and they are life---

EPHESIANS 6:17  and take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the spirit ---which is the word of  GOD---

2 CORINTHIANS  1:21  now  HE  which establisheth us with you in  CHRIST  and hath anointed us is  GOD

--1:22 ---who hath also sealed us and given the earnest of the spirit--- in our hearts

REVELATION 19:10  and I fell at his feet to worship him and he said unto me see thou do it not I am thy fellow servant and of thy brethren that have the testimony of  JESUS  ---worship  GOD  for the testimony of  JESUS  is --the spirit--of prophecy---

PHILIPPIANS 1:19  for I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer and ---the supply of the spirit of  JESUS  CHRIST---

JOHN 3:34  for  HE  whom  GOD  hath sent speaketh the words of  GOD  ---for  GOD  giveth not the spirit by measure unto  HIM 

--3:35-- THE  FATHER  loveth  THE  SON  ---AND HATH GIVEN---ALL THINGS---INTO   --   HIS    HAND---

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[WilliamL]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:37 AM, Andriya said:

On being asked by the rich young man what the latter has to do to gain eternal life, Jesus Christ says:  "And he said to him, 'Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good [...]'" (Mt. 19:17)

If Jesus Christ had considered himself to be God or one with God, why would he have made the aforementioned distinction?

You are making a presumption: that Jesus was saying He was not good. But He did not say that. He might just as well have meant that He was God.

On 9/27/2021 at 9:37 AM, Andriya said:

That Jesus Christ and God are completely separate persons can further be corroborated by the fact that Jesus prayed to God: "And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as  you will." (Mt. 26:39). This goes with Joh. 5:30: "I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my  judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me." If Jesus Christ and God were in a personal union, how can they have a separate will?

Again, a misinterpretation: Jesus said He did the will of the Father, so He did not act on His own Adamic will at all. One will: "the will of Him who sent Me."

On 9/27/2021 at 9:37 AM, Andriya said:

One last verse going in the same direction is the following one: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (Mk. 13, 32)

Here He was speaking from His human nature. Remember, man is made up of breath, spirit, soul, and body. When God took upon Himself flesh (Col. 2:9 ...in Him [Jesus] dwells all the fullness of the Divinity bodily), He took on soul and body. Divinity now had both a heavenly and an earthly nature, whereas before this, Divinity had only a heavenly nature. So here we understand that the One God came to have a dual nature: one from above, one from below.

On 9/27/2021 at 9:37 AM, Andriya said:

Are there any verses which speak in favour of trinity?

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Here the Spirit of God IS the Spirit of Christ: one Divinity, three primary expressions thereof.

[Andriya]

9 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Here the Spirit of God IS the Spirit of Christ: one Divinity, three primary expressions thereof.

Good point. Maybe Matthew 28:19 (ESV) can also be put forward as a proof of the existence of trinity: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit".

[Marathoner]

We know that no one has seen the Father at any time, but His Son explains Him. When we see the Son, we have seen the Father for as the apostle Paul writes of Christ,

God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. (Hebrews 1:1-4 NKJV)

And also,

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. (Colossians 1:15-18 NKJV)

The Son of God is therefore the express image of the Father, who is invisible as the Lord Himself affirms in John's Gospel, "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father." (John 6:46 NKJV)

The confusion resides in the Son of Man for the Son of the living God, who was always with God and is God, was sent by the Father in the fulness of time to be born to a woman under the Law: Jesus Christ come in this flesh. The Son of Man, the second Adam come down from heaven and a life-giving spirit, is the first among many brethren. The Son of God humbled Himself so He might be numbered among transgressors (us). 

Whenever man has witnessed God and lived (Genesis 32 is an example), they have witnessed the express image of the invisible God: the Son of God who is with God, and is God. What did Jacob say of his experience wrestling with God at Peniel?

So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” (Genesis 32:30 NKJV)

In ancient times this was a mystery but as the scriptures inform us, all things are revealed in the Son of God. The Son of God created all things seen and unseen, my friend. He is indeed God.   

Edited October 1, 2021 by Marathoner

[Marathoner]

58 minutes ago, Andriya said:

Good point. Maybe Matthew 28:19 (ESV) can also be put forward as a proof of the existence of trinity: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit".

Something to keep in mind, a truth which is entirely too magnificent for my words to adequately express: the Son of God who humbled Himself in this flesh --- Jesus Christ come in the flesh --- is the first among many brethren. Remember His words which reveal the truth of our inheritance in Him and through Him.

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me." (John 17:20-23 NKJV)

"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." (Revelation 3:21 NKJV)

Whom has God granted to sit with Him upon His throne? Those whose lives are hidden in His Son.  

[JohnD]

On 9/27/2021 at 10:37 AM, Andriya said:

On being asked by the rich young man what the latter has to do to gain eternal life, Jesus Christ says:  "And he said to him, 'Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good [...]'" (Mt. 19:17)

If Jesus Christ had considered himself to be God or one with God, why would he have made the aforementioned distinction?

The most reliable texts say the question was asked... "Good teacher..." and Jesus responded why do you call me good there is only one good: God.

The intent / emphasis is not on "Me" but rather on "Why" since the one making the question apparently did not perceive that Jesus is in fact God in the flesh.

[JohnD]

On 9/27/2021 at 10:37 AM, Andriya said:

That Jesus Christ and God are completely separate persons can further be corroborated by the fact that Jesus prayed to God: "And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as  you will." (Mt. 26:39). This goes with Joh. 5:30: "I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my  judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me." If Jesus Christ and God were in a personal union, how can they have a separate will?

One last verse going in the same direction is the following one: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (Mk. 13, 32)

There are three individuals who are the one God (read next post). 

Each is God. Each has his own will. You already  showed one passage in your question "not as I will but as you will" In Acts 13:2 the Holy Spirit gave marching orders according to his will.

The Father has ultimate authority that the Son and the Holy Spirit submit to (Acts 1:7). ← even the Holy Spirit must seek the mind of the Father (1 Corinthians 2:10).

Jesus in Gethsemane was facing the horrors of not only human crucifixion, but divine sacrifice in that the sins of the world were nailing him to that cross. And as a man he prayed if it be possible... if there be any other way... and the answer from heaven was silence: meaning there is no other way of forgiveness / salvation but through the cross of Christ. If there was another way then the Father defrauded Jesus.

And of course he didn't.

Jesus claims in the passages about being able to do nothing on his own refers to personal restraint in order to fulfill the office of Messiah. Though he be God in flesh, he had to live this life as a man to be our kinsman redeemer. Angels have no kinsman redeemer which is why their belief is of no consequence with regard to judgment.

And you will notice Jesus said what he sees the Father doing this he (the Son) does also. He has the ability to do everything the Father does because they share the same nature in Spirit. In his flesh, Jesus is the last Adam. In his Spirit (before the incarnation) Jesus created all things created in the beginning (John 1:3 / Colossians 11:16 / Hebrews 1:2 / ISAIAH 44:24) ← the last passage says he did it alone by himself and it says that he is the LORD / YHVH and our redeemer. Then of course Genesis 1:1 confirms this is God we are speaking about.

Edited October 2, 2021 by JohnD

[JohnD]

On 9/27/2021 at 10:37 AM, Andriya said:

Are there any verses which speak in favor of trinity?

There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4 / Isaiah 43:10 / Isaiah 44:6 / Isaiah 44:8 / Isaiah 45:5-6)

The Father is God (2 Corinthians 2:13, Galatians 1:1, John 20:17, John 6:27, Ephesians 6:23 etc)

The Son is God  John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:13-16, Isaiah 44:24 / Genesis 1:1)   

The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4 / Acts 13:2)

Good trinity verses include John 1:1-2 / 1 John 1:1-2 / Genesis 1:1-2 ← all three passages refer to the beginning when God was with God (John 1:1-2) and who the other two were with God the Word

• the Father (1 John 1:1-2) 
• the Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:1-2)

Jesus praying to the Father is indicative of the fact that there is distinction of persons in the Godhead. And praying as a man Jesus was praying to the creator of his humanity (Hebrew 10:5 / Hebrews 1:5 / John 1:14) ← which indicates that this is all that the Father created.

Jesus is YHVH / the LORD  of the Old Testament. He is not his own Father, but he is the Father of creation (Luke 3:38 says the first Adam was the son of God the Word ← the fuller revelation once we include John 1:1-3 / Colossians 1:13-16 /  Isaiah 444:24). 

To be our kinsman redeemer Jesus had to submit to the Father as the creator of his humanity as we have to submit to him (Jesus) as the creator of our humanity. Speaking as a man, the Father is the God of Jesus (even though Jesus is God the Word in Spirit and as eternal as the Father).

[steve morrow]

TRINITY  IS  WRONG  ---  ARE  YOU  BEING  DECEIVED 

IS  IT  NOT  JUST  AN  EXCUSE  FOR  MAN  TO  HAVE  A  SAYSO  ---  WRONGFULLY  ---  UNRIGHTEOUSLY

 

ACTS 13:10  and said o full of all subtilty and all mischief thou child of the devil ---wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of  THE  LORD  ---

ACTS 17:2  and paul as his manner was went in unto them and three sabbath days reasoned with them ---out of the scriptures---

PROVERBS 8:8  all the words of  MY  mouth are in righteousness there is nothing froward or  PERVERSE  in them 

EPHESIANS 5:9  for the fruit of the spirit ---is in all goodness and righteousness and truth---

 

MATTHEW 13:15  for this peoples heart is waxed gross and their ears are dull of hearing and their eyes they have closed lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and should understand with their heart 

 

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ACTS 4:12  neither is there salvation in any other for there is none other name ---under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved---

1 TIMOTHY 2:5  ---for there is --one  GOD--  and one mediator-- between  GOD  and men ------- the man JESUS  CHRIST ---

JOHN 6:63  it is the spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing the words that  I  speak unto you ---they are spirit and they are life---

ROMANS 8:2  for the law of the spirit of life in  CHRIST  JESUS  hath made me free from the law of sin and death

1 PETER 1:23  being born again not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible by ---THE  WORD  OF  GOD---  which liveth and abideth forever 

JOHN 3:3  JESUS  answered and said unto him verily verily I say unto thee except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of  GOD 

               ***********************************************************************

 

ACTS 1:1  the former treatise have I made o theophilus of ---all that  JESUS  began both to do and to teach---

--1:2-- until the day in which  HE  was taken up  and after that  HE  through the holy spirit had given commandments unto the apostles whom  HE  had chosen 

 

JOHN 12:48  he that rejecteth  ME  and receiveth not  MY  words hath one that judgeth him ---THE  WORD  THAT  I  HAVE  SPOKEN--- the same shall judge him in the last day

--12:49-- for I have not spoken of myself but  THE  FATHER  which sent me --HE  GAVE  ME  A  COMMANDMENT-- what I should say and what I should speak 

--12:50-- and I know that  HIS  commandment is life everlasting whatsoever I speak therefore even as ---THE  FATHER---said unto  ME  so I speak

 

EACH  HAS  HIS  OWN  WILL???

2 JOHN 1:9  whosoever transgresseth --- and abideth not in the doctrine of  JESUS  CHRIST--- HATH  NOT  GOD --- he that abideth in the doctrine of  CHRIST  he hath --BOTH-- THE  FATHER  AND  THE  SON 

 

1 CORINTHIANS  11:3  but I would have you know that the head of ---every man is  CHRIST---and the head of the woman is the man---and the head of  CHRIST  is  GOD --- 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST