Teaching or preaching

[Starise]

Here's the guy I was telling you about. His name is Bill Luebkemann. He is located in the New Jersey US area. His show is on HOPE FM. I like his down to earth preaching style. You can also find his sermons through his church website. His bio . His church . I believe HOPE FM is a part of the Calvary Chapel denominations. There are some other good speakers on HOPE FM as well. Bill was an electrical/electronics engineer by profession before he became a pastor and was largely responsible for launching that broadcast ministry using those skills. I'm not necessarily condoning everything you might hear on HOPE FM, but there are some good speakers and teachers there.

One critique of Micheal Heiser. Another constructive critique of Heiser.

15 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I hear that maybe 95% (here we go with that percent thingy again ) of the churches today do not even touch biblical prophecy, including my own church. I don't know if I'm complaining or not, but our Wednesday evening Bible study has been turning into devotional preaching, no questions asked? I'm considering just staying at home and using the time to study, but there is so few people who attend Wednesday evenings. I would hate to be one of the few who attend, to be a cause for discontinuing Wednesday services. Perhaps I'm just getting another attitude that needs another adjustment? 

I guess I'm commenting of comments David and Dennis made here. The quotes have it mixed up. 

Yeah you and those percentages. What are we going to do?  I can't speak for your church on why they don't address prophecy or only minimally address it. I can tell you why I think many churches avoid it. A> The pastor is not really qualified to teach/preach it. B> Even though the church might take a stand on one view, many pastors see it as opening the proverbial 'can of worms' to bring it out because often it causes more questions than answers. Questions they often can't answer. C> Depending on how this is taught, it can be a real downer to some people when we think about the things that are coming to the world. It dwells more on the negative than the positive and probably not the sort of thing that lends itself well to that church breakfast or small bible study. To teach the whole word though is to 'go there' no matter what the consequences. In the Baptist churches I noticed that the pastor would spend a lot of time on some scriptures and speed read through others. Guess which ones we went fast through?  The scriptures on the end times and  scriptures that seemed to address election. Those were two of the "let's get in and back out" quickly subjects.

16 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Our Sunday School platform, topics, and program comes from 'Lifeway', Bible studies for life. No prophetic scripture study there either. When filling in as the substitute Sunday School Leader; if appliable to what we are studying, I'll address any relevant prophetic scripture that pertains to the day in which we live, time allowing. 

Great to have a study series if it is written well. I also think a book or study series, even though neutral, can lead some not to study because the book has supposedly already done it for them. In reality, the books don't always get it right and might sometimes leave out key points.

16 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I think expository Bible study, as well as Systematic Theology, is critical to understanding the whole Bible. Since my church does not cover 33% (here we go again) of the Bible that is prophetic in nature, I have to study it on my own. A forum like this can be a blessing to exchange our hermeneutics and thoughts with others, and gain additional perspective and understanding. But it can also be a curse; for reasons we are all aware of. Not to mention that Master lock...

Amen I like expository preaching the best. I have to play the old poop though and say it has much to do with what the pastor says about the word because essentially they are narrating it for you. A good pastor will bring out good things. A bad pastor will go off the rails and come up with things that really don't connect, and believe me, I've heard some whoppers.

 

[Dennis1209]

You sum up my thoughts @Starise

Matthew 4:4 (KJV) But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. 

Pastors should be well aware of teaching-preaching the whole council of God. They are doing a disservice by not doing so. "Watch therefore." Watch for what and when? To answer that question, it has to be taught, or read and studied on one's own. 

How many books of the Bible promise a special blessing? I do believe this promise basically applies to just the first three chapters of Revelation. Starting in Chapter 4: what is there to keep?

Revelation 1:3 (KJV) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

To hear the words, someone has to speak and teach them, yes? 

You gave the exact reasons why end-time prophecy is not being taught in the majority of churches. For that matter, I do not recall hearing a Hell, fire, and brimstone sermon from a pulpit since the 1960's? I suppose itching ears do not want to hear that; people want a warm and fuzzy feeling. It does not help filling the pews or the offering plate. 

Preaching styles and content sure have changed since I was young whippersnapper.

[Starise]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

You sum up my thoughts @Starise

Matthew 4:4 (KJV) But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. 

Pastors should be well aware of teaching-preaching the whole council of God. They are doing a disservice by not doing so. "Watch therefore." Watch for what and when? To answer that question, it has to be taught, or read and studied on one's own. 

How many books of the Bible promise a special blessing? I do believe this promise basically applies to just the first three chapters of Revelation. Starting in Chapter 4: what is there to keep?

Revelation 1:3 (KJV) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

To hear the words, someone has to speak and teach them, yes? 

You gave the exact reasons why end-time prophecy is not being taught in the majority of churches. For that matter, I do not recall hearing a Hell, fire, and brimstone sermon from a pulpit since the 1960's? I suppose itching ears do not want to hear that; people want a warm and fuzzy feeling. It does not help filling the pews or the offering plate. 

Preaching styles and content sure have changed since I was young whippersnapper.

Yep I totally agree Dennis. 

The responsibility is twofold. The pastor/teacher has a responsibility to put the words out there the way it was intended leaving nothing out and adding nothing extra.

The person who places themself ( themselves, their self ) under a pastor/teacher has a responsibility to take what they were taught, make sure it is according to the Bible and apply it to their life. I notice many teachers and preachers are overly heavy on one doctrine while ignoring others.

On hellfire and brimstone preaching, I believe it can be helpful to remind people there is a hell and people will go there. I also think it can be harmful to attempt to 'scare' people into heaven because it isn't a sincere confession if I only went to God because I was afraid He would burn me forever.

When I was saved I certainly had the idea of hell in my mind but I would like to think that wasn't what pushed me over to the light. On that day God convicted me of my sin and I was truly sorry for it and I wanted to truly repent. I maybe partially realized at that time what a great price our savior paid for our sins and it moved me to tears. Even today I'm not sure I entirely grasp the anguish and pain Jesus felt on that cross. The only way to really know would be to have gone through it personally. Thank God we get to accept His gift without getting near the pain and rejection He felt on that day.

Jesus truly gave what no other could give in our behalf and I will be forever grateful to Him for that.

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, Starise said:

Yep I totally agree Dennis. 

The responsibility is twofold. The pastor/teacher has a responsibility to put the words out there the way it was intended leaving nothing out and adding nothing extra.

The person who places themself ( themselves, their self ) under a pastor/teacher has a responsibility to take what they were taught, make sure it is according to the Bible and apply it to their life. I notice many teachers and preachers are overly heavy on one doctrine while ignoring others.

On hellfire and brimstone preaching, I believe it can be helpful to remind people there is a hell and people will go there. I also think it can be harmful to attempt to 'scare' people into heaven because it isn't a sincere confession if I only went to God because I was afraid He would burn me forever.

When I was saved I certainly had the idea of hell in my mind but I would like to think that wasn't what pushed me over to the light. On that day God convicted me of my sin and I was truly sorry for it and I wanted to truly repent. I maybe partially realized at that time what a great price our savior paid for our sins and it moved me to tears. Even today I'm not sure I entirely grasp the anguish and pain Jesus felt on that cross. The only way to really know would be to have gone through it personally. Thank God we get to accept His gift without getting near the pain and rejection He felt on that day.

Jesus truly gave what no other could give in our behalf and I will be forever grateful to Him for that.

A few days ago, I was on a thread here and something about their published testimony was mentioned. No, I remember now, it was one of the members on here, I will not divulge their screen name. But this person is very interesting, and has some amazing life experiences. I thought about P.M. him, and asking if he by chance posted his testimony on here?

Then I thought, I'll first check that section and see if he had posted one? Didn't find one, so I thought I'd review my own, but didn't remember when I did so? Turns out; evidently, I never did?  So, I copied and pasted mine. Unless it changed, I noticed mine was now directly above yours, and read it. Going to read some more shortly.

Anyway, we share a lot of the same experiences, thoughts, love for the Lord, etc.

[Ancient]

8 hours ago, Josheb said:

I do not think it is limited to the "Westernized Greek mindset," and definitely don't believe anyone is interested on turning this op into a moratorium on that mindset. None of the lists in the Bible are exhaustive. The Holy Spirit is not limited to bearing only nine types of fruit. Jesus has given us more than five types of leaders. The op asks about preferences of teaching verses preaching and the irony of the earlier post is that if a teacher or a preacher presents the Ephesians 4:11 list in finite form they themselves are evidenced their own imperfection as a teacher or preacher. 

Westernized Greek mindset or not. 

With all due respect I didn't say it was limited to mindsets. I was giving the author of the op another perspective to understand what a preacher and teacher is from the perspective of the original languages and the mindset of the people who lived in the times our Bibles were written in. Simply pointing to the fact that these cultures are very different to our own and their worldview was very different from our own.

The lack of understanding these issues from their perspective tends to lead to erroneous doctrine and misunderstanding the authors of the books of the Bible original intent and message. For e.g. Verses in Paul's letters are often quoted in various posts. Paul was a Hebrew, he had a Hebrew mindset, grew up in a middle eastern culture. If one is going to quote a verse from one of his letters the whole letter is context. The verse needs to be understood in the context of the whole letter.

There are no chapters, verses or punctuation in Biblical text. Even translators bias on punctuation can alter the view of the reader.

So simply put I an simply giving the author of the op who goes by the name "Greenie" an opportunity to understand the question from a different perspective. Now if Greenie wants to pursue and investigate this perspective well and good. If Greenie chooses not to well and good. This is Greenies freewill choice. I am sure Greenie is old enough to make that decision.

Not intending to get into mindless debate and straining gnats. 

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. 

Greenie Blessings to you as you continue to seek, study, learn and grow in Messiah Yeshua.

Shalom