The Need for a Future Millennium

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, everyone.

Many Christians feel that the "Millennium" will be a time of peace and prosperity, but the Scriptures present a different scenario.

First, let's analyze what the "Millennium" is or will be: The biblical account that refers to this period is Revelation 20:1-6:

Revelation 20:1-6 (KJV)

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The Greek phrase "chilia etee" means "a thousand years." When this Scripture passage was translated into Latin, the accusative form of the Latin phrase is "mille annos." In the singular for "year," the accusative form is "annum." The plural, nominative form is "anni." Combining the forms and making the two words into a contraction gives us the word "millennium," meaning a "thousand-years."

Okay, so that PUBLIC, UNCONTESTED KNOWLEDGE is out of the way. But, what happens DURING that 1,000 years?

Well, the FIRST thing we're told about these 1,000 years is that it will be a time when haSatan (Hebrew for "the Enemy") is thrown chained into the abussos, the Abyss, the pit-with-no-sounded-bottom. It's not that it is "bottomless" or has "no bottom," as some have claimed; it's that nobody has bothered to find out how deep it goes until he reaches its bottom! After he's thrown into this pit, he is SHUT and LOCKED in (ekkleisen), and the pit is SEALED with God's seal until the end of the 1,000 years. He's not getting out until God SAYS he can get out! In verses 7 and 8, we read, ...

Revelation 20:7-8 (KJV)

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Thus, it is a 1,000-year period in which NO ONE can say, "The devil made me do it!" It will be a time when one will KNOW that the evil that lurks within him is HIS OWN evil; it didn't come from haSatan! It is also a time when no one will be lied to by him. This MAY give one a chance at accepting the truth about oneself, that "ALL have sinned" and "there is NONE righteous, no, NOT ONE!"

Now, some think this is already happening, that we are already IN this "thousand years" period, saying that "thousand years" may only refer to an "arbitrarily LONG period of time," maybe 1,000s of years long, but this passage of Scripture uses this phrase SEVEN TIMES over the SEVEN verses in which it's found! Furthermore, it is quite a stretch to suggest that haSatan is already bound in the bottomless pit! He still has PLENTY of influence among the nations today! Consider all of the religions of the world, radical Islam, Satanism, spiritism, Hinduism, the ancestor and nature spirit worship of Shintoism, voodoo (vodou or vodous, Bondye worship), hoodoo, wiccan and other pagan worship! No, as Hal Lindsey put it way back in 1976, "Satan Is Alive And Well On Planet Earth!"

The Millennium, then, is primarily concerned with the incarceration of haSatan.

*****

SECONDARILY, it also refers to the Kingdom of God as administered by the Messiah, Yeshua` Natsretiy, because Yochanan said,

"I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Then he said,

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Unfortunately, on the other hand, this has caused some Christians to say that there will be a "Millennial Reign of Christ" or a "Thousand-Year Reign of Christ." They forget (or never considered?) what Gavriel ("Gabriel") told Miryam ("Mary"):

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

Thus, the Millennium, as far as the Kingdom of God given to Yeshua` the Messiah ("Jesus the Christ") over which to reign is concerned, this will be just the FIRST ONE THOUSAND YEARS of His reign!

There's much more to say about the Millennium, but at this point, I'll turn it over to you. I think we would do well to concentrate on the LONGER periods of time, like the ETERNAL STATE of the New Earth, the New Sky, and the New Jerusalem, and the MILLENNIUM, than the short 7-year period usually called "the tribulation."

[missmuffet]

The millennial kingdom is the title given to the 1,000-year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. Some seek to interpret the 1,000 years in an allegorical manner. They understand the 1,000 years as merely a figurative way of saying “a long period of time,” not a literal, physical reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. However, six times in Revelation 20:2-7, the millennial kingdom is specifically said to be 1,000 years in length. If God wished to communicate “a long period of time,” He could have easily done so without explicitly and repeatedly mentioning an exact time frame.
The Bible tells us that when Christ returns to the earth He will establish Himself as king in Jerusalem, sitting on the throne of David (Luke 1:32–33). The unconditional covenants demand a literal, physical return of Christ to establish the kingdom. The Abrahamic Covenant promised Israel a land, a posterity and ruler, and a spiritual blessing (Genesis 12:1–3). The Palestinian Covenant promised Israel a restoration to the land and occupation of the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10). The Davidic Covenant promised Israel a king from David’s line who would rule forever—giving the nation rest from all their enemies (2 Samuel 7:10–13).

At the second coming, these covenants will be fulfilled as Israel is re-gathered from the nations (Matthew 24:31), converted (Zechariah 12:10–14), and restored to the land under the rule of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Bible speaks of the conditions during the millennium as a perfect environment physically and spiritually. It will be a time of peace (Micah 4:2–4; Isaiah 32:17–18), joy (Isaiah 61:7, 10), and comfort (Isaiah 40:1–2). The Bible also tells us that only believers will enter the millennial kingdom. Because of this, it will be a time of obedience (Jeremiah 31:33), holiness (Isaiah 35:8), truth (Isaiah 65:16), and the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:9, Habakkuk 2:14). Christ will rule as king (Isaiah 9:3–7; 11:1–10). Nobles and governors will also rule (Isaiah 32:1; Matthew 19:28), and Jerusalem will be the political center of the world (Zechariah 8:3).

Revelation 20:2-7 gives the precise time period of the millennial kingdom. There are countless other passages that point to a literal reign of the Messiah on the earth. The fulfillment of many of God’s covenants and promises rests on a literal, physical, future kingdom. There is no solid basis for denying the literal interpretation of the millennial kingdom and its duration being 1,000 years.

https://www.gotquestions.org/millennium.html

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by missmuffet

[Dennis1209]

That is my thoughts also. No one can claim Satan influenced anyone. It exposes our own willful sin nature inside of us, we still cannot live a perfect righteous life and meet God's standards. Nothing inside of us has changed, we still cannot save ourselves, we still need Jesus to save us.

As we can see, sin will still be present when Jesus rules and reigns for the one thousand years. I take it, nowhere near as much sin during His reign. The earth will be partially restored, closes to that of the Garden of Eden. Generally, people will live as long as they did prior to the global deluge. If someone dies at 100 years old, they are still considered babes. 

Even though the earth and atmosphere are going to be cleansed with a fervent heat, and a new Heaven and Earth created after the millennium. I have a suspicion, one of the jobs assigned to the earth dwellers, will be to clean up the mega tons of pollution and trash that accumulated over millennia, that we left behind? I would further suspect, those who have been translated with glorified bodies, may have assignments to help and oversee this process? 

The bottomless pit is interesting. Given all the descriptions in the Bible, about Hell and the different levels of Hell. I am of the opinion it is located somewhere under foot. I get the impression; the bottomless pit could be the exact center of the earth. Anyone there is surrounded by no down, only up in every direction. 

Just thoughts...

[Retrobyter]

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The millennial kingdom is the title given to the 1,000-year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth.

Shalom, missmuffet.

I agree with you.

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Some seek to interpret the 1,000 years in an allegorical manner. They understand the 1,000 years as merely a figurative way of saying “a long period of time,” not a literal, physical reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. However, six times in Revelation 20:2-7, the millennial kingdom is specifically said to be 1,000 years in length. If God wished to communicate “a long period of time,” He could have easily done so without explicitly and repeatedly mentioning an exact time frame.

Again, I agree. We have numbers in Revelation that are larger than this. For instance, we have the number "an hundred and forty and four thousand." If the time period was going to be longer than an actual 1,000 years, he could have said so.

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The Bible tells us that when Christ returns to the earth He will establish Himself as king in Jerusalem, sitting on the throne of David (Luke 1:32–33). The unconditional covenants demand a literal, physical return of Christ to establish the kingdom. The Abrahamic Covenant promised Israel a land, a posterity and ruler, and a spiritual blessing (Genesis 12:1–3). The Palestinian Covenant promised Israel a restoration to the land and occupation of the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10). The Davidic Covenant promised Israel a king from David’s line who would rule forever—giving the nation rest from all their enemies (2 Samuel 7:10–13).

PERFECT!!!

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

At the second coming, these covenants will be fulfilled as Israel is re-gathered from the nations (Matthew 24:31), converted (Zechariah 12:10–14), and restored to the land under the rule of the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

Yes, and as an ISRAELI King, He will be going by His Hebrew name, haMelekh Yeshua` haMashiyach Elohiym (the King Yeshua` the Messiah of God).

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The Bible speaks of the conditions during the millennium as a perfect environment physically and spiritually.

Actually, this is not true. We will still have to deal with the aftermath of God's judgments upon the people of this earth. There's a passage in Ezekiel that speaks to this time:

Ezekiel 39:1-16 (KJV)

1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say,

"Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: 2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel: 3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand. 4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. 5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it,'

"saith the Lord GOD. 

6 "'And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD. 7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel. 8 Behold, it is come, and it is done,' 

"saith the Lord GOD;

"'this is the day whereof I have spoken. 9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years: 10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them,'

"saith the Lord GOD.

11 "'And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it "The valley of Hamongog." 12 And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. 13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown (an honored profession) the day that I shall be glorified,'

"saith the Lord GOD. 

14 "'And they shall sever out MEN OF CONTINUAL EMPLOYMENT, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: AFTER THE END OF SEVEN MONTHS SHALL THEY SEARCH. 15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign (a marker) by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog. 16 And also the name of the city shall be "Hamonah." Thus shall they cleanse the land.'"

The birds and the animals will pick the bones clean, but only a few animals (like canines) will gnaw on the bones as well. So, there will be a CLEAN-UP time after Har-Megiddown.

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

It will be a time of peace (Micah 4:2–4; Isaiah 32:17–18), joy (Isaiah 61:7, 10), and comfort (Isaiah 40:1–2). The Bible also tells us that only believers will enter the millennial kingdom.

This is TECHNICALLY true; however, one must also remember that this will ONLY be true WITHIN THE KINGDOM! Recognizing that His Kingdom doesn't start until He returns, we also have other passages of Scripture that give us a more thorough view:

First, Yeshua` gave us His parables about the Kingdom (which have NOTHING to do with this present time, btw):

Matthew 13:24-43 (KJV)

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,

"The kingdom of heaven (from the sky) is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him,

"'Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?'

28 "He said unto them,

"'An enemy hath done this.'

"The servants said unto him,

"'Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?'

29 "But he said,

"'Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,

"The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: 32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof."

33 Another parable spake he unto them;

"The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."

34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: 35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,

"I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world."

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying,

"Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field."

37 He answered and said unto them,

"He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 
38 The field is the world;
the good seed are the children of the kingdom;
but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
the harvest is the end of the world (age);
and the reapers are the angels. 

40 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather OUT OF HIS (THE MESSIAH'S) KINGDOM all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun IN THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

So, in the parable about the Tares Among the Wheat, there will be children of the wicked one among the children of the Kingdom in the Messiah's world. They will be rooted out of His Kingdom and thrown into the "Furnace of Fire," the "Lake of Fire and Brimstone (Sulfur)," at the end of this age, which includes the last 1,000 years of this age.

It will not be until THEN that God will begin the Age to Come, AFTER the Fire, and renew this earth and atmosphere, and bring down His New Jerusalem. (Revelation 21:1-2)

Yeshua` said that His Kingdom would be like a grain of mustard seed; it would begin so small and yet it would grow until it becomes a tree big enough for birds to build their nests among its branches. His Kingdom initially will only consist of the Land of Israel. However, after the War Tribunal of Matthew 25 (the Judgment of the nations as sheep and goats), He will annex the nations who didn't abuse His people before His coming. So, His Kingdom will grow throughout the Millennium.

He also said that His Kingdom would be like yeast in a massive amount of dough. It's influence would begin barely noticeable, but in the end, it would COMPLETELY affect the whole lump of dough!

We have two other passages of Scripture that are VERY interesting here:

Psalm 2:1-12 (KJV)

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD (YHWH), and against his anointed (His Messiah), saying,

3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us!"

4 He that sitteth in the heavens (in the skies) shall laugh: the Lord (Yeshua`) shall have them in derision (shall make fun of them). 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion! 7 I will declare the decree:

"'the LORD hath said unto me (the Messiah),

"'"Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."'

10 "Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth! 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling! 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little! Blessed are all they that put their trust in him!"

David tells us here that there will be at least one such United Nations meeting when the kings and rulers of other nations will think to throw off God's and His Messiah's yoke, and GOD WILL LAUGH AT THEM!!! This actual event hasn't happened, yet, although the kings of the earth were already showing signs in the First Century that the Gentile nations would take this position against YHWH and His Anointed (Acts 4:23-31).

Also, we must look at what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15 which also tells us the growth of the Kingdom before He turns it over to His Father: (Remember, though, that Paul's purpose for writing this chapter was to defend the Resurrection.)

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

(0) Christ the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's (those who belong to the Messiah) at his coming. 
24 (2) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 

25 For he (the Messiah) must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. [But when he saith, "all things are put under him," it is manifest (obvious) that he (God) is excepted, which (who) did put all things under him (the Messiah).]

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

This will be when the Messiah turns over His now-fully-matured Kingdom (after He has had all things that offend and do iniquity weeded out) over to His Father, YHWH God, and the Wheat shall be gathered into the Kingdom of their Father, and they shall then "shine like the sun!"

THAT is the nature of the Messiah's Kingdom during its first 1,000 years.

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Because of this, it will be a time of obedience (Jeremiah 31:33), holiness (Isaiah 35:8), truth (Isaiah 65:16), and the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:9, Habakkuk 2:14). Christ will rule as king (Isaiah 9:3–7; 11:1–10). Nobles and governors will also rule (Isaiah 32:1; Matthew 19:28), and Jerusalem will be the political center of the world (Zechariah 8:3).

Yes, it will GROW to be such, and GROWTH TAKES TIME! That's why it takes 1,000 YEARS!

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Revelation 20:2-7 gives the precise time period of the millennial kingdom. There are countless other passages that point to a literal reign of the Messiah on the earth. The fulfillment of many of God’s covenants and promises rests on a literal, physical, future kingdom. There is no solid basis for denying the literal interpretation of the millennial kingdom and its duration being 1,000 years.

https://www.gotquestions.org/millennium.html

Yes! However, don't think that the literal, physical, future Kingdom will end after the Millennium! We are also told in Revelation 22:

Revelation 22:1-5 (KJV)

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it (the city), and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it (in the city, which by this time will have landed upon the earth); and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they (His servants) need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and THEY SHALL REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER.

There is NOTHING WRONG with the physical! Some Christians, GREATLY INFLUENCED by Greek philosophy introduced in the First to Third Centuries after the Messiah's birth, have this idea that the "physical" is evil and the "spiritual" is good, BUT the Scriptures DO NOT SAY THAT!!! God made us PHYSICAL BEINGS and He made our EARTH AND SKY PHYSICAL! That's NOT evil! What is "evil" is the sin that human beings introduced AFTER God's "VERY GOOD" Creation! Once His Creation is purged from that evil and its curse, it will be "VERY GOOD," again!

[DeighAnn]

On 10/5/2021 at 9:34 AM, Retrobyter said:

The Millennium, then, is primarily concerned with the incarceration of haSatan.

*****

SECONDARILY, it also refers to the Kingdom of God as administered by the Messiah, Yeshua` Natsretiy, because Yochanan said,

"I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Then he said,

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Unfortunately, on the other hand, this has caused some Christians to say that there will be a "Millennial Reign of Christ" or a "Thousand-Year Reign of Christ." They forget (or never considered?) what Gavriel ("Gabriel") told Miryam ("Mary"):

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

Thus, the Millennium, as far as the Kingdom of God given to Yeshua` the Messiah ("Jesus the Christ") over which to reign is concerned, this will be just the FIRST ONE THOUSAND YEARS of His reign!

There's much more to say about the Millennium, but at this point, I'll turn it over to you. I think we would do well to concentrate on the LONGER periods of time, like the ETERNAL STATE of the New Earth, the New Sky, and the New Jerusalem, and the MILLENNIUM, than the short 7-year period usually called "the tribulation."

Hi and pretty sure I totally agree with everything up until this point.  Yea!!!

1)  I believe Satan is put away because the primary concern is the same as it has always been and that is for all to come to repentance.  We are all Gods children and He is extending all he can to keep everyone possible.  Longsuffering, one of the biggest understatements ever uttered, IMO.  What priest do is teach the words of God and the words of God are laws and discipline and they teach us to walk holy so that on judgment day you don't 'go up in smoke' on the approach to God but actually make it to the point where you can talk.  (just kidding, kinda)  

We also have to remember the 'many' who never had a chance to HEAR the words of God as so never had the chance to come to faith because
1) they hooked up with a 'teacher' priest (whomever) who was not called by God and so they were not taught Gods truths but mans and so never stood a chance
2) were born into another religion that kept them from ever hearing
3) were aborted or died before ever hearing
4) all the other things that happen that weren't their fault
THESE all need to be given a fair chance as GOD IS JUST. We read what will be taking place during the millennium in Eze and we see the Sanctuary with all the events taking place.  Some will be Priests to the Lord only.  Some will be to the people who come to the temple.  We know the nations will coming to worship.   We know we will be ruling and judging through out the world.  All this taking place up until Satan will be loosed for all to go to their 'fathers'.  Last time for Good vs Evil, Chose life or death.  What blows me away is the multitude of people who will still not get it
 

2)  You said "Unfortunately, on the other hand, this has caused some Christians to say that there will be a "Millennial Reign of Christ" or a "Thousand-Year Reign of Christ." They forget (or never considered?) what Gavriel ("Gabriel") told Miryam ("Mary")"

Lots to address but to keep it simple 
Father, Son and Holy Spirit -  all one. 

I am skipping over the entire 1000 years, past the last war where Satan is put down and all evil has been done away with right before the new heaven and new earth.  
1st, at that point there will be no more SAVIOUR, MESSIAH.  UP UNTIL that war takes place YES, AFTER that last couple minutes, no longer necessary.      King, yesss
 

1 Corinthians 15:25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1 Corinthians 15:27 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under Him.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, THAT GOD MAY BE ALL AND ALL.  

The 'role' of Saviour past, as there is no more evil, but God can't get rid of God and God will always rule over the House of Jacob.  But we can't take the one truth and negate another with it.  They can still both be true.  

There is going to be a millennium that will end but the House of Jacob won't be ending just because that day does.  The House of Jacob goes on to the new heaven and new earth to continue on eternally. 

Sorry if this is a repeat, didn't want to read and forget before.  Thank you, hopefully kept on point.   


Oh and as for order I believe it is 7 yrs shortened by the return of Christ when all alive and remaining are changed and Satan is bound.  The teaching of the masses goes on for the Lords Day (the 1000) and at the end Satan is loosed, final war, lake of fire, New Heaven and New Earth Eternity. 
 

[DeighAnn]

On 10/5/2021 at 11:20 AM, Dennis1209 said:

That is my thoughts also. No one can claim Satan influenced anyone. It exposes our own willful sin nature inside of us, we still cannot live a perfect righteous life and meet God's standards. Nothing inside of us has changed, we still cannot save ourselves, we still need Jesus to save us.

As we can see, sin will still be present when Jesus rules and reigns for the one thousand years. I take it, nowhere near as much sin during His reign. The earth will be partially restored, closes to that of the Garden of Eden. Generally, people will live as long as they did prior to the global deluge. If someone dies at 100 years old, they are still considered babes. 

Even though the earth and atmosphere are going to be cleansed with a fervent heat, and a new Heaven and Earth created after the millennium. I have a suspicion, one of the jobs assigned to the earth dwellers, will be to clean up the mega tons of pollution and trash that accumulated over millennia, that we left behind? I would further suspect, those who have been translated with glorified bodies, may have assignments to help and oversee this process? 

The bottomless pit is interesting. Given all the descriptions in the Bible, about Hell and the different levels of Hell. I am of the opinion it is located somewhere under foot. I get the impression; the bottomless pit could be the exact center of the earth. Anyone there is surrounded by no down, only up in every direction. 

Just thoughts...

Nice thoughts and I thought I might give some scriptures to help a little bit


Discipline

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Isaiah 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.



Age - keep in mind  Christ and the army of ANGELS coming from HEAVEN to earth  HIS KINGDOM COMING HERE. 

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

DOESN'T matter if you are good or evil FLESH AND BLOOD can not EXIST in An Heavenly kingdom.  If you read those you will see that all are CHANGED.  


What burns?  
 

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Usage: (a) plur: the heavenly bodies, (b) a rudiment, an element, a rudimentary principle, an elementary rule.

 

BIBLEHUB  (good to get started) strongs and helps

4747

Usage: (a) plur: the heavenly bodies, (b) a rudiment, an element, a rudimentary principle, an elementary rule.

 

4747 stoixeíon– properly, fundamentals, like with the basic components of a philosophy, structure, etc.; (figuratively) "first principles," like the basic fundamentals of Christianity.

[4747 (stoixeíon) refers to "the rudiments with which mankind . . . were indoctrinated (before the time of Christ), i.e. the elements of religious training or the ceremonial precepts common alike to the worship of Jews and of Gentiles" (J. Thayer).

The RSV however renders stoixeia as "elemental spirits," i.e. spiritual powers or "cosmic spirits" (DNTT, 2, 828). This views 4747 /stoixeíon ("elements") as ancient astral beings associated with the very beginning (make-up) of the earth.]

We need to remember when getting kicked out of the garden/separation from God that MAN started art, music, philosophy etc.  those are going away

Elements also mentioned 

Galatians 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; 2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.  :3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: 4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. 12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.


Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:  7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.  8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.  9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.  :10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:  11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:  12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.  13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, HATH HE QUICKENED TOGETHER WITH HIM HAVING FORGIVEN YOU ALL TRESPASSES 

 

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!  13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:  14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Isaiah 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Isaiah 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?  18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.  19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

I don't know if this means we ALL will be able to SEE him or not but it sure does sound like SOME at least will

D

[DeighAnn]

2 minutes ago, Josheb said:

??????? 

Whose need? Does God need a millennium? Do humans need a millennium? 

Maybe you should define what it is - exactly, explicitly, and specifically - what it is you mean by "millennium" because most of Christendom does not construe the mention of a one thousand year reign literally. 

"FIRST"??? 

That implies Y'shua the Anointed One is not currently reigning. Is that what you intend us to understand from that statement? If not then please clarify it for us because mot of Christendom also understand ALL authority has all already been given to the Logos of God by whom, through whom, and for whom all creation was created, especially since the KoG came upon earth at least as far back as the first century during the gospel era. 

Matthew 12:28
"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you."

His kingdom is not of this world but it has come to earth, according to Jesus himself. 

 

So, if you would, please clarify exactly what you want us to understand when saying "first" when Jesus already reigns and has been already doing so for two millennia. Just clarify it for us. 
 

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.







John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

John 16:17 Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father?

John 16:18 They said therefore, What is this that he saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith.

John 16:19 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

John 16:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

John 16:21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

John 16:22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

John 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

John 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

 

John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

John 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

[Dennis1209]

12 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

What burns?

I'd like to get your thoughts pertaining to a couple things I've pondered. Of course, there are different views, like everything else we discuss on this forum. But I'm leading up to a particular question on my mind.

We live in a world that was specifically created for us. The whole universe, where we are positioned in it, and nature working together, that sustains life on this planet [it goes without saying God sustains it]. Keeping creation and the laws of physics in mind [time-space-matter], you need space first to put something in, and a time to do so. Our physical laws of entropy, order always turns to chaos, and everything deteriorates over time.

2 Peter 3:10 (KJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

A controversy here, is some people take the view it is only earth and the second heaven that's effected. There is a division in this verse between the heavens (plural), and the earth. The second part of the sentence attaches it to the first part. So, I view it as the entire universe will pass away, the elements burning up in a fervent heat. 

When? The chronology of events as I understand them are; the seven-year Tribulation; followed by the 1,000-year reign of Christ; directly followed by entering eternity? Throughout the Bible, it has always been my thought, that "the day of the Lord" is the seven-year Tribulation and/or the second coming of our Lord; with the heavenly host of Heaven and us following. In my mind, 2 Peter 3:10 occurs at the end of the millennium. If my hermeneutics are correct, there's more than one "day of the Lord?"

I place this verse in chronology after the entire universe is melted with fervent heat: Revelation 21:1 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

With all the above leading up to my particular question. If the entire universe is going to be destroyed for a reason:

Romans 5:12 (KJV) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Romans 8:22 (KJV) For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Combining the above two verses together forms an opinion and question in my mind. One man sinned and it entered the whole world, it affected all of creation [whole]. All of creation is listed in the first chapter of Genesis; that includes the entire universe, the whole creation. If my theology and time lines are biblical and correct, here's the question.

One man sinned. Sin somehow escaped our planet and atmosphere, causing the entire universe and everything in it to groan and travail. How does that work, or what am I misunderstanding?

Your thoughts?

[Retrobyter]

17 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

That is my thoughts also. No one can claim Satan influenced anyone. It exposes our own willful sin nature inside of us; we still cannot live a perfect righteous life and meet God's standards. Nothing inside of us has changed, we still cannot save ourselves, we still need Jesus to save us.

Shalom, Dennis1209.

You're right, but instead of saying "we still need Jesus to save us," which He will when He returns, we should be saying, "we still need our God to justify us by the sacrifice of Yeshua` (or Jesus)."

17 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

As we can see, sin will still be present when Jesus rules and reigns for the one thousand years. I take it, nowhere near as much sin during His reign. The earth will be partially restored, closes to that of the Garden of Eden. Generally, people will live as long as they did prior to the global deluge. If someone dies at 100 years old, they are still considered babes. 

Even though the earth and atmosphere are going to be cleansed with a fervent heat, and a new Heaven and Earth created after the millennium. I have a suspicion, one of the jobs assigned to the earth dwellers, will be to clean up the mega tons of pollution and trash that accumulated over millennia, that we left behind? I would further suspect, those who have been translated with glorified bodies, may have assignments to help and oversee this process? 

I agree, but one mustn't forget that ALL of those who will be resurrected in the Resurrection of the Just will be receiving new, glorified bodies. This is one time when one should NOT make a distinction between "the churches" and "Israel."

Many Fundamentalist Christians have a problem with this. It's difficult for them to see that the group of "those who are asleep in the Messiah" INCLUDES those saints who trusted in their COMING Messiah while sacrificing animals as a PICTURE of the Messiah's sacrifice yet to come! From the time of Adam and Chavah ("Eve") looking forward to "the seed of the woman," receiving their coats of animal skins, to the prophecies of Shim`own (Simeon) and Hannah (Anna) the prophetess who both saw haMashiyach Elohiym "the Messiah of God," and praised God for His yeshuw`ah (His "salvation") in the Temple, the place of sacrifice. Indeed, Yeshua`s name means "He will save" or "He will rescue" or "He will deliver."

We shall ALL be "earth dwellers" after the Resurrection of those who are dead and the Transformation of those who are living, throughout the Millennium, and into the New Earth!

17 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

The bottomless pit is interesting. Given all the descriptions in the Bible, about Hell and the different levels of Hell. I am of the opinion it is located somewhere under foot. I get the impression; the bottomless pit could be the exact center of the earth. Anyone there is surrounded by no down, only up in every direction. 

Just thoughts...

Well, that's a possibility for the bottomless pit to be in the center of the earth, but I rather doubt it. See, I used to believe the same way, but then we have a problem: That would mean that the meteorite that opens the bottomless pit and releases the locusts would punch a hole clean through the mantle of the earth to its core! That would DESTROY the earth, cracking it wide open! However, we read in the Scriptures ...

Psalm 104:1-5 (KJV)

1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

and ...

Ecclesiastes 1:4 (KJV)

4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

See, it's important that, when reading the Scriptures, we remember that "earth" refers to the LAND, the FIELDS, the SOIL, the DIRT! It very seldom means ALL the SURFACE of the planet, but we live in a society that usually thinks of "earth" meaning the PLANET upon which we all live!

When Peter told us of the "destruction of the earth," he also gave us the REASON for such destruction:

2 Peter 3:3-13 (KJV)

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying,

"Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation!"

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord WILL come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and THE WORKS THAT ARE THEREIN shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that ALL THESE THINGS shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Verse 10 is the key: The Greek translator uses the words ...

Petrou B 3:10

10 Heexei de heemera Kuriou hoos kleptees, en hee hoi ouranoi hroizeedon pareleusontai, stoicheia de kausoumena lutheesetai, kai gee kai ta en autee erga [ouch] heuretheesetai.

10 Heexei = 10 Will-come
de = but
heemera = a-day
Kuriou = of-[the]-Lord
hoos = like
kleptees, = a-thief,
en = in
hee = which
hoi = the
ouranoi = skies
hroizeedon = with-a-rushing-sound/with-a-great-noise/with-the-whistling-of-an-arrow
pareleusontai, = will-come-to/will-pass-away/will-pass-by/will-pass-out-of-sight,
stoicheia = elements
de = but
kausoumena = burning-with-great-heat
lutheesetai, = will-be-loosed/will-be-released/will-be-dissolved,
kai = and/also
gee = earth
kai = and/also
ta = the
en = in
autee = it
erga = works
[ouch] = [not]
heuretheesetai. = will-be-found.

10 Will-come but a-day of-[the]-Lord like a-thief, in which the skies with-a-rushing-sound/with-a-great-noise/with-the-whistling-of-an-arrow will-come-to/will-pass-by/will-pass-away/will-pass-out-of-sight, elements but burning-with-great-heat will-be-loosed/will-be-released/will-be-dissolved, and/also earth and/also the in it works [not] will-be-found.

Putting the verse into English format,

10 But a day of [the] Lord will come like a thief, in which the skies will (come to/pass by/pass away/pass out of sight) with a great noise like the whistling of an arrow, but elements burning with great heat will be dissolved and [the] earth and the works in it will [not] be found.

The burning of the elements, destroying the LAND/FIELDS/SOIL/DIRT with great heat will destroy human works within it. That, I believe, is the key here. That is the purpose of the Fire. The verse is saying that all the destruction will have its purpose in destroying the works of human beings.

Since the works of human beings do not go deeper than the earth's crust, then there's no reason to destroy the entire earth beyond that point! The planet will survive, but the SURFACE of the earth will be burned and melted to the point of destroying any sign of human accomplishments. The skies, will also be affected by the fire, making them a rushing wind that approaches, goes by, and goes off into the distance. However, when the Fire is extinguished, "nature abhors a vacuum" literally; thus, the gases will flow back from the furthest point away from the Fire's origin.

Anyway, that's my belief. I also believe that, from the ashes God will RE-Create the earth and its skies, and then bring His city, the New Jerusalem, down to its surface.

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

Thx DeighAnn,

I don't mean to come across brusk or unkind in any way but I'm not interested in your answers to those questions; I'm interested in the op defining the op for himself. Roy's a smart guy who can articulate his own position and it is that pov in which I'm interested. Ten different people asked those same two questions might give ten entirely different or varied-but-possibly-overlapping answers and then we'd have ten different conversations going with little likelihood anyone gets anywhere regarding consensus. Roy gets to define Roy's pov. The op is Roy's and we should be discussing his op as he defines it and not defining it for him or hijacking it with our own agendas. 

 

And my questions weren't actually answered. All that quoting of scripture and I still don't know how what Retro things is the "need" and I still don't know how he defines the millennium. 

Hey Josh,
If that's what you are looking for, they have a place here to do that very thing, at least they used to.  Probably just slipped your mind but if not, look for the 'soapbox debate' and you can have that 'one on one, not for everyone' conversation cause this is the place for everyone, but I could be wrong so be sure to check it out for yourself.   

I am sorry you couldn't find any of the answers you needed from the scripture I provided but if you need more once Roy has helped you out (maybe in the debate), let me know and I will gladly step back in.  So maybe, Good luck on your soapbox ....D