Discord among the Brethren

[missmuffet]

On 11/6/2021 at 7:27 PM, Mama Etna said:

And no I am not talking about the chat server. Churches and even internet forums have individuals that are confrontational. There are individuals that enjoy being combative, calling others names, and in general being nasty. The Bible doesn't have much nice to say about this kind of behavior. This is what the bible says about this kind of conduct.  The bible associates discordant conduct with other bad fruits.

9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.--Titus 3:9 - 3:11

On a personal level, I tend to disassociate myself from people that bicker and pick fights. I will not add such a one to my circle of friends. There is a scriptural precedent for this.

24 Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go:

25 Lest thou learn his ways, and get a snare to thy soul. -- Proverbs 22:24 - 22:25

It has been my observation that individuals that engage in pugilistic dialog also tend to be unorthodox.  It is not always the case, but I find it to be frequent.  Scripture bears this out. The sewing of discord is listed among the things God hates.

16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. --Proverbs 6:16 - 6:19

It is better, I believe to agree to disagree on matters that are of no importance when it comes to one's relationship with God.  Bickering and divisiveness is part of the human condition and we need to put it under the Blood of Christ.  One way to combat this tendency to put God first and put others before self.

Timothy 3: 1-4

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Oh the irony!!! 

 

First, this is a discussion board AND a discussion board in which a diversity of points of view exist on most topics so there is always going to be disagreement AND there are some who initiate ops without any intent to discuss anything they post, those who consider any disagreement no matter how polite, respectful, and well-reasoned to be confrontation, and those who assign or attribute "confrontation" where none exists on the behalf of the accused. 

Second, on numerous occasions I have cited Titus 3:9-11 in the midst of objectively observable, undeniable evidence to that effect and invariably 1) been attacked for doing so and 2) often sanctioned for violating the tou. 

Third, and perhaps most important, the New Testament is filled with examples of confrontation..... and some of it is good! Paul said it was good that disputes existed among the brethren so that sound doctrine and those approved by God could be proved. Most of these examples are "vertical," confrontations between leaders and those they lead (or are supposed to lead) and some occurs for the unstated purpose of revealing the unruly or ungodly. Many in Christian discussion board assume the role of the higher position even though the discussion boards are constituted by peer relationship; the only ones with any authority are the moderators. I use Ephesians 4 often to clarify this distinction. None of us here are Jesus. None of us here are Paul or Peter or hold the position of apostle over the others in the forum and those who attempt such elevation are the problem to be solved. 

Lastly (for now ), there are some who will consider this very post to be confrontational even though there isn't a single combative or nasty word or name in the entire post. For this reason I think the Titus text an excellent measure and an excellent directive because it gives us a simple guideline: the "three-strikes" rule; AND it tells us what to do about it: walk away. I also think Romans 12:9-21 (and some other passages) is useful both before experiencing confrontation and after experiencing it. 

Don't return evil for evil.
Do what is right in the eyes of the many (beginning with the tou ). 
Love. 
Don't assume the role of God; don't attempt vengeance. 
Feed the thirst or hunger and rekindle warmth and sustenance. 
Overcome evil with good. 

But I would also add this: no one can provoke us or make us feel anything we do not want to feel. We do that to ourselves. Understanding this gives us insights into the idolatry of ourselves. None of us is better than another. None of us should think more highly of ourselves than we do others. None of us (but the mods) are Judge. Sudden emotional arousal or escalation within is an indication we've somehow become over-invested in cyberspace and thereby reason for a break. It's much easier to look in the mirror of Proverbs 15 or Ephesians 4:29 or Philippians 2:3 or the aforementioned Romans 12:9-21 text (to name only a few) but who among us is and has seen ourselves in Titus 3:9-11?

Thank you for posting. 

Paul had proposed to himself to be led by Jesus Christ and to wait on him as it was asked from him on the way to Damascus.

His friendship and mentorship with Barnabas was from the Lord.

Jesus had at work two leaders working together and the time had come for them to go the way the Lord was leading them, as both their lives and future was hidden (the details in Jesus Christ).

Jesus had to do what he had to do to separate the good friends and co-workers in a fruitful ministry, who naturally they had learn to pray and plan together and depend on the support of one another and Jesus Christ gave each one a different vision for what lies ahead of them and having both of them rooted in their own vision from him, and having prepared co-workers for them the time had come for the two leaders to go to where the Lord was leading them. 

And it happened at the right time and in away to make them selves clear that their future ministry was on different roads, leading to different destinations.

As the vision put in their heart by Jesus Christ became stronger the time had come to break the strong commitment they had to one another and follow the leading of Jesus Christ that Paul was ready to break ground on his own.

The ministry of Paul as an apostle of Jesus Christ and set apart to walk by faith knowing that the Lord was leading the way and Jesus knew his future and Paul had to follow in what he would tell him. 

When in Corinthos Paul had tried his best on his own and being so frustrated he decided to leave and that's the time the Lord showed up and told him (no to go yet) he has some people who are ready to hear the Gospel and he will guide him to them, He asked him not to leave.

This may remind us about when Jesus told Peter and the other disciples after they had toiled all night and were exhausted and disappointed, JESUS SAID THE TIME HAD COME TO GUIDE THEM TO WHERE THE FISH WAS, they did not know that he was there. 

When we are tired and   disappointed and not appreciate Jesus Christ is standing right there infront of us...we are not alone he liberated us for our dependency to others, like we are lame and need their support to walk. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Alive]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

Oh the irony!!! 

 

First, this is a discussion board AND a discussion board in which a diversity of points of view exist on most topics so there is always going to be disagreement AND there are some who initiate ops without any intent to discuss anything they post, those who consider any disagreement no matter how polite, respectful, and well-reasoned to be confrontation, and those who assign or attribute "confrontation" where none exists on the behalf of the accused. 

Second, on numerous occasions I have cited Titus 3:9-11 in the midst of objectively observable, undeniable evidence to that effect and invariably 1) been attacked for doing so and 2) often sanctioned for violating the tou. 

Third, and perhaps most important, the New Testament is filled with examples of confrontation..... and some of it is good! Paul said it was good that disputes existed among the brethren so that sound doctrine and those approved by God could be proved. Most of these examples are "vertical," confrontations between leaders and those they lead (or are supposed to lead) and some occurs for the unstated purpose of revealing the unruly or ungodly. Many in Christian discussion board assume the role of the higher position even though the discussion boards are constituted by peer relationship; the only ones with any authority are the moderators. I use Ephesians 4 often to clarify this distinction. None of us here are Jesus. None of us here are Paul or Peter or hold the position of apostle over the others in the forum and those who attempt such elevation are the problem to be solved. 

Lastly (for now ), there are some who will consider this very post to be confrontational even though there isn't a single combative or nasty word or name in the entire post. For this reason I think the Titus text an excellent measure and an excellent directive because it gives us a simple guideline: the "three-strikes" rule; AND it tells us what to do about it: walk away. I also think Romans 12:9-21 (and some other passages) is useful both before experiencing confrontation and after experiencing it. 

Don't return evil for evil.
Do what is right in the eyes of the many (beginning with the tou ). 
Love. 
Don't assume the role of God; don't attempt vengeance. 
Feed the thirst or hunger and rekindle warmth and sustenance. 
Overcome evil with good. 

But I would also add this: no one can provoke us or make us feel anything we do not want to feel. We do that to ourselves. Understanding this gives us insights into the idolatry of ourselves. None of us is better than another. None of us should think more highly of ourselves than we do others. None of us (but the mods) are Judge. Sudden emotional arousal or escalation within is an indication we've somehow become over-invested in cyberspace and thereby reason for a break. It's much easier to look in the mirror of Proverbs 15 or Ephesians 4:29 or Philippians 2:3 or the aforementioned Romans 12:9-21 text (to name only a few) but who among us is and has seen ourselves in Titus 3:9-11?

This is a worthy post and IMO--ought to be read carefully by everyone within shouting distance.

:-)

[Blue Lulu]

Hatred stirs up strife. But love covers all sins.  Proverbs 10:12

A wrathful man stirs up strife. But he who is slow to anger allays contention. Proverbs 15:18

The beginning of strife is like releasing water; therefore stop contention before a quarrel starts.  Proverbs 17:14

for you are still carnal, for where there is strife and divisions among you are you not carnal and behaving like mere men.  1 Corinthians 3:3

But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing they generate strife. 2 Timothy 2:23

[Alive]

27 minutes ago, Blue Lulu said:

Hatred stirs up strife. But love covers all sins.  Proverbs 10:12

A wrathful man stirs up strife. But he who is slow to anger allays contention. Proverbs 15:18

The beginning of strife is like releasing water; therefore stop contention before a quarrel starts.  Proverbs 17:14

for you are still carnal, for where there is strife and divisions among you are you not carnal and behaving like mere men.  1 Corinthians 3:3

But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing they generate strife. 2 Timothy 2:23

Yes---so much wonderful truth the Lord has blessed us with---and yet, this is a discussion forum.

:-)

A venue for sensitivity training?

LOL

[Hopefully]

“Keep on telling everyone these truths. And warn them before God not to argue about words. Such arguments don’t help anyone, and they ruin those who listen to them.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:14‬ 
 

[Alive]

10 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

“Keep on telling everyone these truths. And warn them before God not to argue about words. Such arguments don’t help anyone, and they ruin those who listen to them.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:14‬ 
 

Yes--that verse is in a larger context of counsel to Timothy--a young man called to ministry.

Do you suppose the Bereans, when they, in community or as a group searched the scriptures--that they may have discussed words and even debated about the words they dug up?

[Hopefully]

38 minutes ago, Alive said:

Do you suppose the Bereans, when they, in community or as a group searched the scriptures--that they may have discussed words and even debated about the words they dug up?

This scripture has provided me counsel as well because I see debating words still happens all the time. 
 

When I read instructions from the word I just try to follow them regardless of what others may have done. 

[Alive]

33 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

This scripture has provided me counsel as well because I see debating words still happens all the time. 
 

When I read instructions from the word I just try to follow them regardless of what others may have done. 

So then--this is something you do on occasion and it is fine--is it not?

[Hopefully]

1 minute ago, Alive said:

34 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

Expand  

So then--this is something you do on occasion and it is fine--is it not?

No I do not occasionally debate words.   

I am here because I agree with the OP. Are you here to agree as well ?