What is "The Law"?

[MrBear]

1 hour ago, Waggles said:

You gotta wonder where some "Christians" are at with their lack of understanding of the new and living Covenant that Jesus himself delivered to us through his death - the death of a spouse ends the marriage.

And this is what happened when Yahweh died on the cross at Golgotha - God being a husband to the Jews of Judah came to a very tragic end. 

Romans 7:1  Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law - that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? 
2  For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. 

Romans 7:4  Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 
5  For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 
6  But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. 

Unfortunately Brother you have misinterpreted the text Paul is saying “ died to the law” as in Not having to do outward signs that the Pharisees are telling them they have to do

Understand Paul had a group of Pharisees  known as the circumcision party who’s one and only job was  do nothing but follow him all they did was shadow his every move Trying to tell his converts they had to do the “ law” as they taught it, most of these new converts were old disciples of Judaism that’s why Paul says

” to those who know the law”

and “ you are released from the old” and “ serve a spirit” ( this is the important part) because

He says before that

Romans 7:12-14

¹² Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

¹³ Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

¹⁴ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Paul is saying don’t be fooled by the Pharisees believe in the spirit and by doing Righteousness you are serving the spirit

Jesus warns of the Pharisees teaching false doctrine 

¹³ “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!

You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

¹⁵ “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert,and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell⁽as you are.

They were all for show they boasted and were hypocrites and were called out even Paul calls them out

Romans 3:27

27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.

?

again he is saying faith in Jesus is followings Jesus laws and Jesus taught Gods law 

james backs this up

James 2:20-24

²⁰ You foolish Person do you want proof faith without deeds is useless?

 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

And Paul will back up the Torah again in Romans

Romans 3:31

³¹ Do we then make void the law through faith?

God forbid:

yea, we establish the law.

here he answers his own question 

“ God forbid!!”, we establish ( or uphold) the Law

These letters from Paul are often misunderstood, realize he was fighting a old system that was trying to mislead his converts by teaching them false doctrine about outward signs and “ boasting” about the LAW they made up and don’t keep gods laws themselves ?

Romans 2:27
In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God’s law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God’s law but don’t obey it.

Brother it’s clear Paul teaches the Torah it still exists, but easily misunderstood because he is constantly fighting the false doctrine of the Jews trying to mess up his churches with their “ laws” They we’re teaching doing the laws will bring salvation and you didn’t need faith, just outward signs ( circumcising , ect)

And that was just a few verses of Romans.. Galatians is filled with Torah he even warns his new converts  that used to be in Judaism to not be enslaved again by the Jews deception in

Galatians 4: 8-9

Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. ( he is talking about the Pharisees)  But now that you know God—or rather are known by God⁽how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces ( Laws ) Do you wish to be enslaved⁽by them all over again?

Paul says “ now that you know God”

that’s important because JOHN says

1 John 2:3-4

We know that we have come to know him⁾ if we keep his commands.Whoever says, “I know him, but  does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him 

my apologies for such a looong post, but Paul’s letters can be difficult to say the least ?

Paul is a  Great writer though  ( probably why the Lord picked him) but he is quick paced and it takes some time to get his letters in the right context but hopefully just these few verses helped show he preached it and followed torah , but try Galatians that’s a lot of fun scripture the “ school master” text is Gal 3:24-25 that is a good one ( often misinterpreted, I had fun with that one…. see if you can figure out the meaning   ?

SHALOM❤️

Edited November 16, 2021 by MrBear

[Charlie744]

8 hours ago, MrBear said:

Unfortunately Brother you have misinterpreted the text Paul is saying “ died to the law” as in Not having to do outward signs that the Pharisees are telling them they have to do

Understand Paul had a group of Pharisees  known as the circumcision party who’s one and only job was  do nothing but follow him all they did was shadow his every move Trying to tell his converts they had to do the “ law” as they taught it, most of these new converts were old disciples of Judaism that’s why Paul says

” to those who know the law”

and “ you are released from the old” and “ serve a spirit” ( this is the important part) because

He says before that

Romans 7:12-14

¹² Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

¹³ Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

¹⁴ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Paul is saying don’t be fooled by the Pharisees believe in the spirit and by doing Righteousness you are serving the spirit

Jesus warns of the Pharisees teaching false doctrine 

¹³ “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!

You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

¹⁵ “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert,and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell⁽as you are.

They were all for show they boasted and were hypocrites and were called out even Paul calls them out

Romans 3:27

27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.

?

again he is saying faith in Jesus is followings Jesus laws and Jesus taught Gods law 

james backs this up

James 2:20-24

²⁰ You foolish Person do you want proof faith without deeds is useless?

 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

And Paul will back up the Torah again in Romans

Romans 3:31

³¹ Do we then make void the law through faith?

God forbid:

yea, we establish the law.

here he answers his own question 

“ God forbid!!”, we establish ( or uphold) the Law

These letters from Paul are often misunderstood, realize he was fighting a old system that was trying to mislead his converts by teaching them false doctrine about outward signs and “ boasting” about the LAW they made up and don’t keep gods laws themselves ?

Romans 2:27
In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God’s law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God’s law but don’t obey it.

Brother it’s clear Paul teaches the Torah it still exists, but easily misunderstood because he is constantly fighting the false doctrine of the Jews trying to mess up his churches with their “ laws” They we’re teaching doing the laws will bring salvation and you didn’t need faith, just outward signs ( circumcising , ect)

And that was just a few verses of Romans.. Galatians is filled with Torah he even warns his new converts  that used to be in Judaism to not be enslaved again by the Jews deception in

Galatians 4: 8-9

Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. ( he is talking about the Pharisees)  But now that you know God—or rather are known by God⁽how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces ( Laws ) Do you wish to be enslaved⁽by them all over again?

Paul says “ now that you know God”

that’s important because JOHN says

1 John 2:3-4

We know that we have come to know him⁾ if we keep his commands.Whoever says, “I know him, but  does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him 

my apologies for such a looong post, but Paul’s letters can be difficult to say the least ?

Paul is a  Great writer though  ( probably why the Lord picked him) but he is quick paced and it takes some time to get his letters in the right context but hopefully just these few verses helped show he preached it and followed torah , but try Galatians that’s a lot of fun scripture the “ school master” text is Gal 3:24-25 that is a good one ( often misinterpreted, I had fun with that one…. see if you can figure out the meaning   ?

SHALOM❤️

Hebrews 10:16 “I will write my laws in their hearts,”

John 14:15 “If you love me keep my commandments,”

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think I came to destroy the law but to fulfill it,”

There is absolutely no way around these three quotes from Jesus! No interpretation or discussion is needed! One either obeys Him or they don’t!

Only God has the ability to write / place something IN YOUR HEART. If HE is telling us this then He certainly does not intend to destroy it (law) or do away with it!

Or perhaps Jesus did not really mean what He said? 

Or perhaps Paul needed to correct Him - yea, that’s it, those 3 quotes were ambiguous. If Jesus only said what He meant we wouldn’t have so much confusion, and we could really get back to obeying Him! 

PS. For those who attend church on Sunday— If I may... continue to attend on Sunday BUT in addition, try to honor His Sabbath at the same time! Friday, sundown to sundown and spend that time with God. You will soon find He is closer to you than you could imagine- He will ensure you feel His presence. My words mean nothing but try His ... they are truth and alive.

Charlie

 

 

 

 

[Waggles]

8 hours ago, MrBear said:

my apologies for such a looong post, but Paul’s letters can be difficult to say the least ?

Not really.

As a Spirit-filled Pentecostal Christian I find all the epistles straight forward and understandable. Afterall they are written for the benefit of the Spirit-filled Pentecostal ekklesia.

Seems to me that those who have to theologize their way through the epistles are non-Pentecostals trying to comprehend the spiritual.

Jude 1:17  But YE beloved, remember the words spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 
18  that they said to you, In the last time mockers shall be, walking after their own ungodly lusts. 
19  These are they who make separations, having only soul, not having Spirit. 

[MrBear]

1 hour ago, Waggles said:

Not really.

As a Spirit-filled Pentecostal Christian I find all the epistles straight forward and understandable. Afterall they are written for the benefit of the Spirit-filled Pentecostal ekklesia.

Seems to me that those who have to theologize their way through the epistles are non-Pentecostals trying to comprehend the spiritual.

Jude 1:17  But YE beloved, remember the words spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 
18  that they said to you, In the last time mockers shall be, walking after their own ungodly lusts. 
19  These are they who make separations, having only soul, not having Spirit. 

I see Brother

then it was I that misunderstood your post, I thought you were implying we no longer had to follow the commandments of the Father

That was an error on my part, I’m so used to having to explain Paul’s teaching that it was my misunderstanding 

SHALOM❤️

[MrBear]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

Hebrews 10:16 “I will write my laws in their hearts,”

John 14:15 “If you love me keep my commandments,”

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think I came to destroy the law but to fulfill it,”

There is absolutely no way around these three quotes from Jesus! No interpretation or discussion is needed! One either obeys Him or they don’t!

Only God has the ability to write / place something IN YOUR HEART. If HE is telling us this then He certainly does not intend to destroy it (law) or do away with it!

Or perhaps Jesus did not really mean what He said? 

Or perhaps Paul needed to correct Him - yea, that’s it, those 3 quotes were ambiguous. If Jesus only said what He meant we wouldn’t have so much confusion, and we could really get back to obeying Him! 

PS. For those who attend church on Sunday— If I may... continue to attend on Sunday BUT in addition, try to honor His Sabbath at the same time! Friday, sundown to sundown and spend that time with God. You will soon find He is closer to you than you could imagine- He will ensure you feel His presence. My words mean nothing but try His ... they are truth and alive.

Charlie

 

 

 

 

That’s a very good point Brother, but my brother was saying it seems pretty easy to read and it’s amazing how many people get Paul’s letters messed up

just last night I was listening to sermons of grown men claiming with conviction his letters were saying “ Jesus died so the law isn’t in affect anymore ?”

It was actually heartbreaking, to listen to them misquote and misinterpret these great letters, So I’m always having to defend Paul it seems the poor apostle couldn’t catch a break when he was alive or now either?

Yes you summarized it very clearly and without a long post brother you cleatly have communication skills i long for!

SHALOM❤️

[Charlie744]

4 hours ago, MrBear said:

That’s a very good point Brother, but my brother was saying it seems pretty easy to read and it’s amazing how many people get Paul’s letters messed up

just last night I was listening to sermons of grown men claiming with conviction his letters were saying “ Jesus died so the law isn’t in affect anymore ?”

It was actually heartbreaking, to listen to them misquote and misinterpret these great letters, So I’m always having to defend Paul it seems the poor apostle couldn’t catch a break when he was alive or now either?

Yes you summarized it very clearly and without a long post brother you cleatly have communication skills i long for!

SHALOM❤️

That is very kind of you. However, you will notice I just did a ‘cut and paste’ from His Words! 

But I will hope you continue to offer your insights and knowledge for the many difficult verses that are not laying on the top of the ground. 

Best wishes and look forward to your responses, Charlie 

[Waggles]

2Cor 3:6  who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 
7  But if the ministration of death in letters engraven on stones came to be in glory, so that the children of Israel could not look steadfastly upon the face of Moses for the glory of his face; which was being done away: 
8  how shall not rather the ministration of the spirit be with glory? 
9  For if the ministration of condemnation is glory, much rather doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 
10  For verily what hath been made glorious hath not been made glorious in this part, by reason of the surpassing glory. 
11  For if what was being done away was through glory, much more what remaineth is in glory. 
12  Having therefore such hope, we use great boldness, 
13  and not just as Moses put a veil upon his face, that the children of Israel should not look steadfastly on the end of what was being done away: 
14  but their thoughts were hardened: for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remaineth, it not being revealed to them that it is done away in Christ. 
15  But unto this day, whenever Moses is read, a veil lieth upon their heart. 
16  But whenever one shall turn to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 
17  Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, is liberty. 
18  But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit. 

[Waggles]

Galatians 2:2  And I went up by revelation; and I laid before them the gospel which I preach among the nations but privately before those of repute, lest I somehow be running, or had run, in vain. 
3  But not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: 
4  and that because of the false brethren privily brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 
5  to whom we yielded in subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

[Waggles]

James 1:25  But who looketh into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and continueth, being not a hearer that forgetteth but a doer of work, this man shall be blessed in his doing.

James 2:10  For whoever shall keep the whole law, and stumble in one point, is become guilty of all. 
11  For who said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou dost not commit adultery, but killest, thou art become transgressor of the law. 
12  So speak, and so do, as those to be judged by a law of liberty. 

[MrBear]

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

That is very kind of you. However, you will notice I just did a ‘cut and paste’ from His Words! 

But I will hope you continue to offer your insights and knowledge for the many difficult verses that are not laying on the top of the ground. 

Best wishes and look forward to your responses, Charlie 

Ty brother I hope and pray more believers won’t be deceived into thinking Gods commandments disappeared because of misinterpreted verses 

TY 

SHALOM❤️