What is "The Law"?

[grahampaul]

On 11/10/2021 at 10:14 AM, Justin Adams said:

We should NOT edit the Ten Words.

excuse my ignorance,will you explain the ten words you refer to.

[Bawb]

1 minute ago, grahampaul said:

excuse my ignorance,will you explain the ten words you refer to.

The 10 Words are the "10 Commandments". I believe that the direct Hebrew translation of "Ten Commandments" is inaccurate, thus 10 Words instead.

[grahampaul]

3 minutes ago, Bawb said:

The 10 Words are the "10 Commandments". I believe that the direct Hebrew translation of "Ten Commandments" is inaccurate, thus 10 Words instead.

so where does the phrase come from?

[Bawb]

13 minutes ago, grahampaul said:

so where does the phrase come from?

The Ten Words:

The Foundation of the Torah

by Michael Bugg

Today, it is very common to find Christians who declare, "I follow the Ten Commandments!" as if those Ten were somehow separate from the the other 603 that are listed elsewhere in the Torah.  But when we examine them more closely, we find that the Ten Commandments (actually, the "Ten Words" would be the correct translation) form the foundation of every command that follows. 

Actually, the Jewish enumeration of them is different from both Protestant and Catholic enumerations.  The first "command" is this: "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery."  That is, the first command, the foundation of all that follows, is to know who God is and what He has done for us.  And really, isn't that the basis for salvation under the New Covenant as well?

Every commandment links to every other commandment.  Yeshua gave the most important commandments as such:

1. "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your might."

2. "And you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

The commandment to love our neighbor is derived from the commandment to love God, since our neighbor too is in the image of God (albeit many generations removed). 

The first four commandments are all derived from "Love God," and the last five from, "Love your neighbor."  The fifth command, "Honor your father and mother," bridges the two, since by honoring our parents we both love them and the Father who put them over us.

Every other commandment in the Torah is either derived from the Ten or was instituted out of grace to allow us to be restored when we violate the Ten (i.e., the sacrificial commands).  Here is a quick and non-exhaustive list:

1. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

• Recognize that God has predicated His right to rule not on His power, but on His kept promises
• Keep the Feasts that celebrate our freedom in order to pass that history onto our children (Exo. 12-14)

2. You shall have no other gods before me

• No occultism or spiritism
• No modern "idols" of people or material things (mammon)

3. You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God for nothing

• A call to ambassadorship
• A command not to misuse religious authority
• ;"Be holy as I am holy" - prefaces the commandments for kosher and ritual purity (Exo. 22:31; Lev. 11:44-45, 19:2, 20:7; Num. 15:40; cf. 1Pt. 1:16).

4. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy

• Includes all the Feasts and their associated sabbaths (cf. Lev. 23)
• Letting the Land rest on the Sabbatical year
• Releasing debts and slaves on the Sabbatical year

5. Honor your father and mother

• Honor and obey the other authorities God has set up in your life

6. Do not murder

• Includes all commands against harming or even hating one's fellows or one's self

7. Do not steal

• Includes kidnapping, the theft of a life
• Includes refusing to release a slave in the Sabbath year for the same reason
• Includes holding a debt against the poor, the theft of their future
• Includes not bringing the proper offerings to God, the theft of His House, as well as refusal to support the ministries of those who serve us

8. Do not commit adultery

• Includes other forms of fornication
• Also includes other types of covenant-breaking

9. Do not bear false witness

• Includes deception in general
• Overlaps with falsely taking God's name
• False teaching and false prophecy
• Gossip and slander

10. Do not covet

• All commands to obey God in our hearts, not just observe things outwardly
• Circumcision of the heart
• A rejection of Replacement Theology, which covets the Jew's particular and peculiar call

On cannot simply separate the "moral" from the "ceremonial" commandments, as mainline Christianity would like to do.  Take the Sabbath, for example.  Is the command to let one's servants rest on the Sabbath merely a ceremonial observance, or should one obey it out of a moral regard for their welfare?  What about the release of debts on the Sabbath year?  Is that just a ceremonial technicality that we may safely disregard in the current dispensation?  While it is certainly true that some commandments are specific to the Land and that there is room for debate whether certain other commands are universal or particular to the Jew, one cannot simply dismiss whole blocks of commands as "ceremonial" or "shadows" that were done away with at the Cross without trampling on the moral commands connected to them as well. 

While they are commonly called the Ten Commandments, Exodus 20 calls them the “ten words.”

“And God spake all these words, saying,” (Exo 20:1)

“Words” is from the Hebrew “dabar” (Strong’s H1697) and is translated as:

AV-word 807, thing 231, matter 63, acts 51, chronicles 38, saying 25, commandment 20, misc 204; 1439

It is defined as:

1) speech, word, speaking, thing
1a) speech
1b) saying, utterance
1c) word, words
1d) business, occupation, acts, matter, case, something, manner (by extension)

Where the Ten Commandments are repeated in Deuteronomy (which means “second law”) they are referred to in the same way:

“These words (dabar) the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.” (Deut 5:22)

“And I will write on the tables the words (dabar) that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.” (Deut 10:2)

The verse below is interesting in that it describes what God wrote upon the tables as both “the words” and “the ten commandments” yet each is from the original word “dabar:”

“And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words (dabar) of the covenant, the ten commandments (dabar).” (Exo 34:28)

“Words” is never translated from “mitzvah” (Strong’s H4687), the common word for commandment. Here are two verses that translate “dabar” (H1697), obviously referring to the Decalogue, into “commandments:”

“And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments (H1697); and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.” (Deut 4:13)

“And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments (H1697), which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.” (Deut 10:4)

However, those translations are not following the normal translation (“word” 807 times versus “commandment” 20 times) or the definition for the word “dabar.”

 Promises

All the verbs for the ten “do’s” and “don’ts” in the Decalogue are in the second person, singular imperfect. The imperfect verb form is defined as:

Grammar. noting action or state still in process at some temporal point of reference, particularly in the past. (www.dictionary.com)

The sixth commandment (one of God’s “words”) could thus be translated as “you will not kill” which could be understood as a promise. It is interesting that the Hebrew “dabar” is frequently used in the sense of a promise.

Here are other examples of the same grammatical construction which are clearly promises and not commands:

“And the LORD said unto him, Peace be unto thee; fear not: thou shalt not die.” (Jud 6:23)

“And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.” (2 Sam 12:13) (See also 2 Sam 19:23, Jer 34:4, Jer 38:24)

“Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;” (Psa 91:5)

“And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.” (Eze 36:27)

That last verse is the promise of God putting His Spirit within us which will bring with it the promise of His law within our hearts enabling us to keep all of His commandments.

“But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.” (Jer 31:33)

The keeping of God’s law will then be not a matter of compulsion to be obedient (for fear of punishment) but it will be what we naturally want to do (for love of Him). The natural result of being filled with the Spirit of God is to keep His commandments.

More and more, I am seeing that:

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” (Heb 4:12)

If you want to do the actions, they are restrictions.
If you don’t want to do the actions, they are promises.

God does not need His word so that He can read our hearts. The Bible is written in such a way that (rightly understood) it helps us to see our own hearts. This is sometimes referred to as the mirror principle.

Shalom!

[Bawb]

On 11/10/2021 at 8:10 AM, Justin Adams said:

Most 'modern' church folk redact the fourth.

As stated many times, The RCC did this and their "daughter" churches " (The RCC's words not mine) followed in lockstep, still evident today. Additionally, they did away with the 2nd so they could have all of their recycled pagan images.

A typical conversation would have gone something like this...

1st RCC: "What are we going to do with this statue of Zeus (Jupiter) now that we're "Christians"?

2nd RCC: Meh, let's rename it St. Peter, the Apostle. I bet people won't even realize it and soon they will be kissing the leading big toe of the statue, and praying to it!

[grahampaul]

1 hour ago, Bawb said:

The 10 Words are the "10 Commandments". I believe that the direct Hebrew translation of "Ten Commandments" is inaccurate, thus 10 Words instead.

so allow me to be a bit cynacle here.an obscure rabbi totally ignoring Jesus words wishes the commandments to be known  as" The words".wouldnt it be better if we followed our Lords example and called them "commandments"

[Bawb]

3 minutes ago, grahampaul said:

so allow me to be a bit cynacle here.an obscure rabbi totally ignoring Jesus words wishes the commandments to be known  as" The words".wouldnt it be better if we followed our Lords example and called them "commandments"

Unfortunately Brother, I wasn't there with with Moshe and I don't think you were either. All I can honestly tell you is that there are NUMEROUS translation errors in the Bible, some intentional, some not. If you look at the Strong's Concordance, it gives SEVERAL words that are to be translated from the Hebrew "debar"

While they are commonly called the Ten Commandments, Exodus 20 calls them the “ten words.”

“And God spake all these words, saying,” (Exo 20:1)

“Words” is from the Hebrew “dabar” (Strong’s H1697) and is translated as:

AV-word 807, thing 231, matter 63, acts 51, chronicles 38, saying 25, commandment 20, misc 204; 1439

It may also be a Hebrew-ism that uses this term "affectionately". For aren't we supposed to love Abba-Yah's Word?

[grahampaul]

18 minutes ago, Bawb said:

 

While they are commonly called the Ten Commandments, Exodus 20 calls them the “ten words.”

the word ten is not mentioned in exodus 20, the word words in hebrew is" had-de-ba-rim ".

our Lord called them commandments.

rest assured i was not there with moses either,why be glib?

[Waggles]

You gotta wonder where some "Christians" are at with their lack of understanding of the new and living Covenant that Jesus himself delivered to us through his death - the death of a spouse ends the marriage.

And this is what happened when Yahweh died on the cross at Golgotha - God being a husband to the Jews of Judah came to a very tragic end. 

Romans 7:1  Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law - that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? 
2  For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. 

Romans 7:4  Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 
5  For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 
6  But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Waggles

[Bawb]

7 hours ago, grahampaul said:

rest assured i was not there with moses either,why be glib?

Graham, when you are on the Internet it is at times difficult to measure people. I can't see your face or hear the tone of your voice. You were coming across to me as being a smart-alec. I apologize for being glib towards you. I'm also not going to argue the point with, either. Be blessed Brother.