Are these 2300 or 1150 days in Daniel 8:14

[Charlie744]

On 11/16/2021 at 1:44 AM, adamjedgar said:

I note the mention of the 70 week prophecy...and would like to go slightly offtrack onto that pathway for a bit. (i think its relevant)

 

I note that when we read Daniel 9:26-27…

 

25Know and understand this: From the issuance of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Messiah,g the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of distress.

26Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing. Then the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations have been decreed. 27And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.”

 

So that ells me that we have 69 weeks from the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the coming of the Messiah.

 

Now my understanding is that Messiah is an Old testament term used to denote the first coming of a saviour as prophesied by Isaiah in Chapter 53...

3He was despised and rejected by men,

a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief.

Like one from whom men hide their faces,

He was despised, and we esteemed Him not.

4Surely He took on our infirmities

and carried our sorrows;b

yet we considered Him stricken by God,

struck down and afflicted.

5But He was pierced for our transgressions,

He was crushed for our iniquities;

the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him,

and by His stripes we are healed.c

6We all like sheep have gone astray,d

each one has turned to his own way;

and the LORD has laid upon Him

the iniquity of us all.

7He was oppressed and afflicted,

yet He did not open His mouth.

He was led like a lamb to the slaughter,

and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,

so He did not open His mouth.

8By oppression and judgment He was taken away,

and who can recount His descendants?

For He was cut off from the land of the living;e

He was stricken for the transgression of My people.

 

So this tells me that the prophecy in Daniel relates to that of Isaiah 53 and the coming Messiah. If so, could we not work backwards from Jesus Crucifixion to determine if this prophecy in Daniel 9 is fullfilled with Jesus ministry, crucifixion and the stoning of Stephen?

 

for example,

1. Jesus ministry was about 3.5 years (which is what i believe history demonstrates)

2. Stephen was stoned exactly 3.5 years after the crucifixion (another historical fact i believe)

 

So from the start of the Jesus ministry until the stoning of Stephen was 7 years!

 

If we then consider the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem...

 

What do restore and rebuild actually mean?

 

So when we consider the actual time period statement given for the prophecy in Daniel 9:25

25Know and understand this: From the issuance of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Messiah,g the Prince, 

 

 I do not see  that there is any point to use the same term twice in a single statement...so these words (restore and rebuild) must represent 2 things!

 

one theory i have heard is the following

restored = a decree to self govern (appoint magistrates and other leadership positions to self govern)

rebuild = the physical process of rebuilding the city destroyed by the Babylonians many years before

 

thoughts?

Welcome Adam and these are such wonderful questions that have yet to be resolved. Daniel must be the second most complicated book  next to Revelation. The reason Revelation is considered (my thoughts only) is can only be unpacked and properly understood when Daniel is properly interpreted and understood and if I may, it is completely misunderstood!  An analogy that might be acceptable is that Revelation is a locked box within a locked box called Daniel. There is no possibility to get to Revelation until Daniel in unlocked.

 

A few years ago I went to a seminar on Revelation. They had a great powerpoint presentation with terrific images, etc., These folks absolutely knew Revelation.....but they didn't! Many verses were guesses, more than too many were  left uninterpreted or skipped over because NO ONE has any idea what they mean, and it was trying to build a wall with only a few bricks and no mortar. I walked out of the meeting quite sad - and I had never studied Revelation at all  prior to this seminar. But it didn't take much to realize they were trying so hard but had little to work with. I decided to ask some friends to put a bible study together and we would take Revelation line by line and tear it apart and attempt to interpret it - what is it really saying. I was told that would not be the correct approach since Daniel is the book that unpacks Revelation. They strongly recommended I learn and study Daniel. And this would be my first learning of Daniel outside the cute stories I remembered as a child - metal man image, furnace scene and of course, the lions den. That was the extent of my knowledge of Daniel.

 

Here I am this evening some 3 years later attempting to complete a commentary on Daniel. After reading Daniel a gazillion times and still walk away in a daze, I decided to go online and read the commentaries by the academics and scholars of Daniel. Jokingly, there seems to be a new paper, book or commentary on those commentaries daily... everyone is writing about Daniel but they ALL are simply rehashing the same 'accepted interpretations' made during the past 100 years or so by the scholarly giants of the time. No new stuff. But what I did learn is among these scholars there are generally two camps for each major issue within Daniel. 

 

For example; almost all contend that chapter 11 is about Antiochus Epiphanes.. but there are some who think it speaks to the Roman period. Most find (only because they have been told it) that the 'he' in 9:24 refers to the antichrist, while a smaller group  believe it refers to Jesus. Anyway, I began to catalogue those very difficult issues where there were at least two major interpretations by these scholarly folks. I thought if there are two or more interpretations, then at least one of them is wrong and maybe they are both wrong... but it gave me the courage to move forward. This is not my field and am very new to 'believers' but I had a tremendous desire to understand Daniel (really do not know where it came from at all).

 

Initially, I documented 13 major issues which had these multiple interpretation - now it is at 25 and growing. The 2300 days is clearly one of the most difficult 'issues' within Daniel to unpack. In fact it took me two months just on this issue since I rejected all the 'currently accepted' interpretations on this subject. To me they were weak guesses even though I had no idea what the true interpretation was.

 

Now, I am NOT saying my interpretation is categorically correct, but I am saying it is categorically correct for ME and I am so comfortable with it I will stand by it!!!!!!

 

The first question is: who is this book speaking about?

 

Second, what are the 2 or 3 criteria given in the verses that one can lock onto so as to reduce the number of candidates it could apply to?

 

Third, is there certain key terms or phrases within these few verses that can quickly eliminate certain characters, like an Antiochus Epiphanes?

 

Here is a big one - Everyone, and I do mean everyone is trying to unpack this THROUGH a HISTORICAL LENS. In other  words, ALL the scholars claim the first 6 chapters of Daniel are historical, while the last 6 are prophetic or spiritual. YET, these same folks attempt to unpack the last 6 chapters in an HISTORICAL approach.... go figure. This is the key to Daniel - throw away ALL THE HISTORY BOOKS - DO NOT TRY  AND MATCH THE ACTORS, CONFLICTS AND WARS FOUND WITHIN OUR HISTORY BOOKS TO THE VERSES IN a BIBLICAL BOOK - APPLES AND ORANGES. And when they can not find a war, conflict or actor that fits those verses (chapter 11 is a perfect illustration of this), they leave many verses alone, pass them by because their APPROACH IS FLAWED - it can only hold up so long.

 

I can assure you the answers to Daniel is found in only two places; within Daniel itself or earlier books such as Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc. When I figuratively locked myself up in the religious  section of the library and asked the librarian to lock the door to the history section, I was forced to dig into these two sources only. NO HISTORY BOOKS, and I believe I have been successful. Not yet completed but soon.

 

The 2300 days. It MUST BE SPEAKING ABOUT THE MESSIAH - THE ENTIRE TANAKH IS ABOUT GOD. He is simply revealing Himself through the characters and kingdoms and peoples that come on the earth. If you want to focus on the characters you will miss seeing God during their lives. 

 

The sanctuary must be cleansed.

 

This will eliminate of do away with the daily sacrifices. As you know, each day (9 AM  and 3 PM a sacrifice would be  offered).

 

 How long will the vision be? What vision? Pretty good clue.

 

When did the vision begin?

 

When will the vision end?

 

Sanctuary and host will be trampled.

 

Must complement 9:24 to 9:27.

 

And there are others.

 

I would respectfully ask you to consider these questions as they are all found within Daniel. The most important thing to consider is it speaks about only one person - the Messiah. 

 

I don't mean to be a jerk about this but maybe you might want to try interpreting this first as opposed to someone like me who has no theological, religious, academic or scholarly achievements. But we can talk!  God bless and I hope to hear back from you, Charlie

[Dennis1209]

On 11/16/2021 at 10:31 AM, adamjedgar said:

Does traditional Judaism historically agree that the average age for a priest to be ordained was about the age of 30 years?

That's a tough question that would require a lot of explanation on who and when. Generally speaking, there is no fixed age in the Bible, save: 2 Chronicles 31:17 (KJV) Both to the genealogy of the priests by the house of their fathers, and the Levites from twenty years old and upward, in their charges by their courses;

The biblical number twenty, which is one more than 19, is twice ten and can, at times, mean a complete or perfect waiting period. 

(Hebrews 5:2-10) On earth, at what age, was Jesus ordained High Priest?

[adamjedgar]

15 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Welcome Adam and these are such wonderful questions that have yet to be resolved. Daniel must be the second most complicated book  next to Revelation. The reason Revelation is considered (my thoughts only) is can only be unpacked and properly understood when Daniel is properly interpreted and understood and if I may, it is completely misunderstood!  An analogy that might be acceptable is that Revelation is a locked box within a locked box called Daniel. There is no possibility to get to Revelation until Daniel in unlocked.

 

A few years ago I went to a seminar on Revelation. They had a great powerpoint presentation with terrific images, etc., These folks absolutely knew Revelation.....but they didn't! Many verses were guesses, more than too many were  left uninterpreted or skipped over because NO ONE has any idea what they mean, and it was trying to build a wall with only a few bricks and no mortar. I walked out of the meeting quite sad - and I had never studied Revelation at all  prior to this seminar. But it didn't take much to realize they were trying so hard but had little to work with. I decided to ask some friends to put a bible study together and we would take Revelation line by line and tear it apart and attempt to interpret it - what is it really saying. I was told that would not be the correct approach since Daniel is the book that unpacks Revelation. They strongly recommended I learn and study Daniel. And this would be my first learning of Daniel outside the cute stories I remembered as a child - metal man image, furnace scene and of course, the lions den. That was the extent of my knowledge of Daniel.

 

Here I am this evening some 3 years later attempting to complete a commentary on Daniel. After reading Daniel a gazillion times and still walk away in a daze, I decided to go online and read the commentaries by the academics and scholars of Daniel. Jokingly, there seems to be a new paper, book or commentary on those commentaries daily... everyone is writing about Daniel but they ALL are simply rehashing the same 'accepted interpretations' made during the past 100 years or so by the scholarly giants of the time. No new stuff. But what I did learn is among these scholars there are generally two camps for each major issue within Daniel. 

 

For example; almost all contend that chapter 11 is about Antiochus Epiphanes.. but there are some who think it speaks to the Roman period. Most find (only because they have been told it) that the 'he' in 9:24 refers to the antichrist, while a smaller group  believe it refers to Jesus. Anyway, I began to catalogue those very difficult issues where there were at least two major interpretations by these scholarly folks. I thought if there are two or more interpretations, then at least one of them is wrong and maybe they are both wrong... but it gave me the courage to move forward. This is not my field and am very new to 'believers' but I had a tremendous desire to understand Daniel (really do not know where it came from at all).

 

Initially, I documented 13 major issues which had these multiple interpretation - now it is at 25 and growing. The 2300 days is clearly one of the most difficult 'issues' within Daniel to unpack. In fact it took me two months just on this issue since I rejected all the 'currently accepted' interpretations on this subject. To me they were weak guesses even though I had no idea what the true interpretation was.

 

Now, I am NOT saying my interpretation is categorically correct, but I am saying it is categorically correct for ME and I am so comfortable with it I will stand by it!!!!!!

 

The first question is: who is this book speaking about?

 

Second, what are the 2 or 3 criteria given in the verses that one can lock onto so as to reduce the number of candidates it could apply to?

 

Third, is there certain key terms or phrases within these few verses that can quickly eliminate certain characters, like an Antiochus Epiphanes?

 

Here is a big one - Everyone, and I do mean everyone is trying to unpack this THROUGH a HISTORICAL LENS. In other  words, ALL the scholars claim the first 6 chapters of Daniel are historical, while the last 6 are prophetic or spiritual. YET, these same folks attempt to unpack the last 6 chapters in an HISTORICAL approach.... go figure. This is the key to Daniel - throw away ALL THE HISTORY BOOKS - DO NOT TRY  AND MATCH THE ACTORS, CONFLICTS AND WARS FOUND WITHIN OUR HISTORY BOOKS TO THE VERSES IN a BIBLICAL BOOK - APPLES AND ORANGES. And when they can not find a war, conflict or actor that fits those verses (chapter 11 is a perfect illustration of this), they leave many verses alone, pass them by because their APPROACH IS FLAWED - it can only hold up so long.

 

I can assure you the answers to Daniel is found in only two places; within Daniel itself or earlier books such as Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc. When I figuratively locked myself up in the religious  section of the library and asked the librarian to lock the door to the history section, I was forced to dig into these two sources only. NO HISTORY BOOKS, and I believe I have been successful. Not yet completed but soon.

 

The 2300 days. It MUST BE SPEAKING ABOUT THE MESSIAH - THE ENTIRE TANAKH IS ABOUT GOD. He is simply revealing Himself through the characters and kingdoms and peoples that come on the earth. If you want to focus on the characters you will miss seeing God during their lives. 

 

The sanctuary must be cleansed.

 

This will eliminate of do away with the daily sacrifices. As you know, each day (9 AM  and 3 PM a sacrifice would be  offered).

 

 How long will the vision be? What vision? Pretty good clue.

 

When did the vision begin?

 

When will the vision end?

 

Sanctuary and host will be trampled.

 

Must complement 9:24 to 9:27.

 

And there are others.

 

I would respectfully ask you to consider these questions as they are all found within Daniel. The most important thing to consider is it speaks about only one person - the Messiah. 

 

I don't mean to be a jerk about this but maybe you might want to try interpreting this first as opposed to someone like me who has no theological, religious, academic or scholarly achievements. But we can talk!  God bless and I hope to hear back from you, Charlie

Hi charlie,

I too have heard for a long time a particular line of reasoning concerning the link between Daniel and Revelation. Clearly they go together...to me its probably because one points to a type and the other an antitype.

In light of this, i think that I have now taken a turn i did not expect in my studies of Daniel 8 in particular. I have never believed this was Anitiochus Epiphanes but to be honest, after looking at some historical videos and writings about the Seleucid kingdom (one of the four horns that came out of the greek empire), I am almost certain now that this is the kingdom of Daniel 8 and 11. 

I do not believe that Antiochus 4 is the king responsible for the growth of the Selecid Empire, but he certainly is responsible for the 'man humiliated at work kicking the cat when he went home' outburst on Jerusalem after his humliation in Egypt at the hands of the Roman Senate representative who drew a circle in the sand around him demanding he either leave immediately or be at war with Rome.

Having said the above, I now think that the link between Daniel 7 and 8 is not the little horn as such...but perhaps the Sanctuary itself...it seems to me that the sole aim of the Israelites was always to return to their traditional religious roots. These roots lie in the sanctuary and its services...that was their culture that was regularly under attack.

Thats as far as i have time for right now off to work...I have 21 hours of work to do in the next 24 hours i will come back in a day or so.

[Charlie744]

3 minutes ago, adamjedgar said:

Hi charlie,

I too have heard for a long time a particular line of reasoning concerning the link between Daniel and Revelation. Clearly they go together...to me its probably because one points to a type and the other an antitype.

In light of this, i think that I have now taken a turn i did not expect in my studies of Daniel 8 in particular. I have never believed this was Anitiochus Epiphanes but to be honest, after looking at some historical videos and writings about the Seleucid kingdom (one of the four horns that came out of the greek empire), I am almost certain now that this is the kingdom of Daniel 8 and 11. 

I do not believe that Antiochus 4 is the king responsible for the growth of the Selecid Empire, but he certainly is responsible for the 'man humiliated at work kicking the cat when he went home' outburst on Jerusalem after his humliation in Egypt at the hands of the Roman Senate representative who drew a circle in the sand around him demanding he either leave immediately or be at war with Rome.

Having said the above, I now think that the link between Daniel 7 and 8 is not the little horn as such...but perhaps the Sanctuary itself...it seems to me that the sole aim of the Israelites was always to return to their traditional religious roots. These roots lie in the sanctuary and its services...that was their culture that was regularly under attack.

Thats as far as i have time for right now off to work...I have 21 hours of work to do in the next 24 hours i will come back in a day or so.

Thank you for responding! Please keep in mind that chapter 2 = chapter 7 = chapter 8. The 4 kingdoms identified in chapter 2 will never change- God is simply giving us a different view of the 4 so we can ‘triangulate”, if you will, and get a complete picture of the people, kingdoms and events that He is prophetically speaking about within His Plan of Salvation. Consequently, if one errors in identifying the 4 kingdoms in chapter 2 then it will carry forward to 7 and 8, and also corrupt the interpretations in Daniel and they will cause an impossible task of interpreting Revelation. The 4 kingdoms are Babylon, Medes & Persia, Greece and then Rome ( first pagan, then  papal). The little horn is the pope / RCC. 

Best wishes, Charlie 

 

[adamjedgar]

On 11/22/2021 at 4:00 AM, Charlie744 said:

Thank you for responding! Please keep in mind that chapter 2 = chapter 7 = chapter 8. The 4 kingdoms identified in chapter 2 will never change- God is simply giving us a different view of the 4 so we can ‘triangulate”, if you will, and get a complete picture of the people, kingdoms and events that He is prophetically speaking about within His Plan of Salvation. Consequently, if one errors in identifying the 4 kingdoms in chapter 2 then it will carry forward to 7 and 8, and also corrupt the interpretations in Daniel and they will cause an impossible task of interpreting Revelation. The 4 kingdoms are Babylon, Medes & Persia, Greece and then Rome ( first pagan, then  papal). The little horn is the pope / RCC. 

Best wishes, Charlie 

 

I have no problem with pagan and papal Rome prophetic views, however, I think that the idea originally came out of Greece. Romans deified Alexander the great  for centuries after his death. In spite of this, the problem is that it's difficult to directly link the little born in chapters 7 & 8 whilst ignoring the Seleucid empire. (which was still Greek I believe).

[Charlie744]

13 minutes ago, adamjedgar said:

I have no problem with pagan and papal Rome prophetic views, however, I think that the idea originally came out of Greece. Romans deified Alexander the great  for centuries after his death. In spite of this, the problem is that it's difficult to directly link the little born in chapters 7 & 8 whilst ignoring the Seleucid empire. (which was still Greek I believe).

You are right! 

1) I do not know what you mean when you say, “I think the idea...” - what are you referring to?

2) Remember, EVERYONE has tried to interpret chapter 11... but EVERYONE attempts to match these verses against our history books... As I mentioned, this is the wrong approach. Daniel is not a history book and it has nothing to do with Epiphanies- He is not of the 4 kingdoms in chapter 2. 

Remember , Daniel is about the coming Messiah and God’s Plan of Salvation ONLY. 

He is simply revealing that Plan THROUGH the 4 kingdoms- they are not the subject of the book. If you interpret Daniel using this approach as opposed to a ‘historical’ approach and look for the Messiah in the verses as opposed to some minor character like Epiphanies, Daniel will open up. 

Thanks, Charlie 

[adamjedgar]

On 11/25/2021 at 2:27 AM, Charlie744 said:

You are right! 

1) I do not know what you mean when you say, “I think the idea...” - what are you referring to?

2) Remember, EVERYONE has tried to interpret chapter 11... but EVERYONE attempts to match these verses against our history books... As I mentioned, this is the wrong approach. Daniel is not a history book and it has nothing to do with Epiphanies- He is not of the 4 kingdoms in chapter 2. 

Remember , Daniel is about the coming Messiah and God’s Plan of Salvation ONLY. 

He is simply revealing that Plan THROUGH the 4 kingdoms- they are not the subject of the book. If you interpret Daniel using this approach as opposed to a ‘historical’ approach and look for the Messiah in the verses as opposed to some minor character like Epiphanies, Daniel will open up. 

Thanks, Charlie 

Hi Charlie, (oops i made a spelling mistake in last post...i said little "born"...it was meant to be little "horn".

 

I found a youtube video from a presbyterian teacher and lecturer who i think addresses daniel 11 with history issue brilliantly.

 

his name is Bruce Gore and his channel is https://www.youtube.com/user/GoreBruce

 

I am not a presbyterian, and i dissagree with some of his theology, but on this topic i think he is spot on. Check out his channel and go through his videos on the Seleucid empire (one is on Antiochus IV and the other addresses Daniel 11) ...it is very enlightening and he is very easy to listen too.

[Charlie744]

6 minutes ago, adamjedgar said:

Hi Charlie, (oops i made a spelling mistake in last post...i said little "born"...it was meant to be little "horn".

 

I found a youtube video from a presbyterian teacher and lecturer who i think addresses daniel 11 with history issue brilliantly.

 

his name is Bruce Gore and his channel is https://www.youtube.com/user/GoreBruce

 

I am not a presbyterian, and i dissagree with some of his theology, but on this topic i think he is spot on. Check out his channel and go through his videos on the Seleucid empire (one is on Antiochus IV and the other addresses Daniel 11) ...it is very enlightening and he is very easy to listen too.

Ok and I will but remember, this book of Daniel is about the Messiah and Epiphanies is not one of the 4 kingdoms in chapter 2, so we have no reason to insert him into a later chapter... but almost EVERYONE does because they can not figure 11 out and continue to try and find how he matches to our history books... the verses are not meant to tie into our history lessons... 

Thanks, Charlie 

[adamjedgar]

9 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Ok and I will but remember, this book of Daniel is about the Messiah and Epiphanies is not one of the 4 kingdoms in chapter 2, so we have no reason to insert him into a later chapter... but almost EVERYONE does because they can not figure 11 out and continue to try and find how he matches to our history books... the verses are not meant to tie into our history lessons... 

Thanks, Charlie 

Hi Charlie,

Actually, my thought is that the Seleucid empire is not about just Epiphanes...he was but one of a number of rulers for that kingdom and it was already well into its decline by the time he defiled jerusalems temple. Having said that, Seleucid I and Antiochus III (the great) saw the kingdom reach a total area of approx 3 million sq kilometers...so it was a massive part of the Hellenistic empire of Greece.

And that is the point...this little horn of the Seleucid Empire came out of the 4 horns of Greece after Alexander the Great died. It extended its reach exactly as prophesied...the the south (down to Egypt), to the East (all the way to Afghanistan), and the the Beautifull Land (Israel to the SW of Syria).

 

The traditional SDA view is that Daniel 8 links with Daniel 7 via the little horn. I am convinced that is not historical, however, this does not mean that Daniel 7 and 8 are not linked for the 2300 day/years prophecy. I think the Seleucid Empire of Daniel 8 and 11 actually strengthen the SDA view, but in a way that is completely "out of left field" and not at all what this denomination preaches.

I think that the entire book of Daniel is linked by the Sanctuary! The Sanctuary is all about the plan of salvation of man from sin...and your point about the Messiah i think is exactly right in that it gives us a start date for these prophecies in Daniel of the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem by Artaxerxies

in 457 B.C.

 

The reason why this particular decree is the correct one (vs 3 other candidates) is because of the following:

restore: the right to self govern - install high priests and legal magistrates etc

rebuild: the erection of the buildings, city walls, temple etc.

 

The decree in 457 B.C by Artaxerxies is the only one that satisfies both of the above statements in the prophecy in Daniel.

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, adamjedgar said:

Hi Charlie,

Actually, my thought is that the Seleucid empire is not about just Epiphanes...he was but one of a number of rulers for that kingdom and it was already well into its decline by the time he defiled jerusalems temple. Having said that, Seleucid I and Antiochus III (the great) saw the kingdom reach a total area of approx 3 million sq kilometers...so it was a massive part of the Hellenistic empire of Greece.

And that is the point...this little horn of the Seleucid Empire came out of the 4 horns of Greece after Alexander the Great died. It extended its reach exactly as prophesied...the the south (down to Egypt), to the East (all the way to Afghanistan), and the the Beautifull Land (Israel to the SW of Syria).

 

The traditional SDA view is that Daniel 8 links with Daniel 7 via the little horn. I am convinced that is not historical, however, this does not mean that Daniel 7 and 8 are not linked for the 2300 day/years prophecy. I think the Seleucid Empire of Daniel 8 and 11 actually strengthen the SDA view, but in a way that is completely "out of left field" and not at all what this denomination preaches.

I think that the entire book of Daniel is linked by the Sanctuary! The Sanctuary is all about the plan of salvation of man from sin...and your point about the Messiah i think is exactly right in that it gives us a start date for these prophecies in Daniel of the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem by Artaxerxies

in 457 B.C.

 

The reason why this particular decree is the correct one (vs 3 other candidates) is because of the following:

restore: the right to self govern - install high priests and legal magistrates etc

rebuild: the erection of the buildings, city walls, temple etc.

 

The decree in 457 B.C by Artaxerxies is the only one that satisfies both of the above statements in the prophecy in Daniel.

I agree with you on the 457 as the starting point for the 70 weeks prophesy. But the one coming out of the 4 ‘TERRITORIES’, not kingdoms is the beast of papal Rome. Pagan Rome is the iron legs of the chapter 2 metal man image- there is no space between Greece, the 3rd kingdom and pagan Rome, the 4th kingdom. This is just one reason why God used a metal man to symbolize the coming kingdoms- so we could not insert another kingdom or ruler between them. It keeps us from miss interpreting the verses. 

The ‘link’ is not the ‘little horn’ because he is not shown on chapter 2, and the book of Daniel is not about him. He is just a villain in all of this. The ‘link’ can be no one but the Messiah. If you look for Him in these verses you will find Him.

Try and leave ALL the history books from you- they will ONLY steer you away from the correct interpretation. ALL interpretations can be found in Daniel itself and the books of the Tankh like Jeremiah and Ezekiel. The SDA have so much right but they personalized the 2,300 days. They could not figure it out so they brought the prophecy down to a 6 foot level (man’s level), and made it about them. They calculated the second coming of Jesus using the 2300 days and converted it to years and determined He must be coming back in 1844. And they were the only ones able to interpret this correctly and were the new chosen people to usher in the second coming. God would punish them as He did David for calculating His return- He warned us not to do this. Rather than learn from their error, they doubled down and recalculated the date for the year zero AND now state He would cleanse the Sanctuary in heaven and not yet return to earth- but they still were the chosen people (despite the Bible teaching there is neither Jew nor Greek and ALL fall short). They continue to set themselves up above all other denominations - God despises pride And although they have interpreted so much of Daniel correctly (more than any other group), God has kept His foot on their neck for trying to lift themselves above others (my opinion found while interpreting Daniel). The 2300 days are about Jesus. 

Charlie